Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[Misery74]

Only need to go to the Predators board and look through their threads/comments related to his treatment/handling of Kevin Fiala. His handling of Fiala only resulted in his trade to the Wild and now Fiala (now with the Kings) is on track with back to back 30 goal seasons.

As someone has noted Lavy's strength is with coaching established teams, he's just not a teacher of the game and patient with the young players.

Agreed. This was also discussed last trade deadline.

We have wasted a whole f***ing year.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Too much weight is given by posters regarding the round of a draft pick return while ignoring where within said round the pick maybe.

Case in point, the teams that may be interested in trading with the Capitals in most cases will have late picks within a round based upon how they finish. So the initial idea of getting a first round return will be a short lived feel good sensation until you realize it's the 30th pick within said round, which in my opinion when speaking of the first round is really an early 2nd round pick. Hence the reason for the need for multiple high picks and prospects for the likes of an Orlov.

By all accounts it’s a deep draft. Secondly, a team in the 15-20 range isn’t going to give up their first rounder for a rental. You can grant them the opportunity to speak to Orlov’s representatives regarding an extension but there’s not a ton of time before the TDL to iron out a deal like that.

Thirdly, they could use the assets from Orlov to try and acquire a better young player with term. The first rounder we acquire via trade is going to have a minimal chance at making an immediate impact during Ovechkins final few years. I’d rather them acquire the assets and do more of a retool if they truly want to have Ovechkin go on another cup run.

 

[pman25]

Also at the end of the day, Orlov is a rental. Returning a 1st and a prospect is fine. And yeah it’s gonna be a late 1st rounder and those do tend to be overrated but that’s a good chip to have to move up in a draft or in another trade for a player

 

[g00n]

Also at the end of the day, Orlov is a rental. Returning a 1st and a prospect is fine. And yeah it’s gonna be a late 1st rounder and those do tend to be overrated but that’s a good chip to have to move up in a draft or in another trade for a player

I was thinking a 1st, 2nd, and a player

 

[trick9]

Andrew Copp returned a 1st, 2nd and a 5th as a rental. Granted it was through conditions that were met but still.

Orlov is a far superior asset than Copp as a rental.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Looking at last years TDL:

Lindholm returned a 1st, 2 2nds and two defenseman

Giordano returned 2 2nds and a 3rd rounder

Chiarot returned a 1st, 4th and a prospect
Manson returned a 2nd and a prospect

Lauzon returned a 2nd rounder

I’d bunch Orlov’s potential return somewhere between Chiarot and Lindholm. @g00n is probably pretty spot on in terms of a potential return, especially with retention

 

[BiPolar Caps]

By all accounts it’s a deep draft. Secondly, a team in the 15-20 range isn’t going to give up their first rounder for a rental. You can grant them the opportunity to speak to Orlov’s representatives regarding an extension but there’s not a ton of time before the TDL to iron out a deal like that.

Thirdly, they could use the assets from Orlov to try and acquire a better young player with term. The first rounder we acquire via trade is going to have a minimal chance at making an immediate impact during Ovechkins final few years. I’d rather them acquire the assets and do more of a retool if they truly want to have Ovechkin go on another cup run.

You're being delusional if you think the Capitals have another cup run in them in the remaining years of Ovechkin with the club. With three years remaining on his contract after this year, I think the best you can hope for is Ovie attaining the personal goal of becoming the all time NHL goal scorer. Other then that, it'll be sometime before this team will become competitive again and this season will just be the beginning of a playoff drought for this franchise.

We know who the current UFAs are on the team, this time next year you can put Wilson and Mantha there and the year after it'll be Kuznetsov, Backstrom and Oshie.

Orlov's availability would place him above the likes of Gavrikov and Chychrun. Just using Toronto as a potential trade partner, the asking price should be '24 and '25 first round picks and Knies. Look at what the Leafs just gave up in the St. Louis trade and I believe that Orlov would have more of an impact come the playoffs then those players.

 

[Misery74]

Looking at last years TDL:

Lindholm returned a 1st, 2 2nds and two defenseman

Giordano returned 2 2nds and a 3rd rounder

Chiarot returned a 1st, 4th and a prospect
Manson returned a 2nd and a prospect

Lauzon returned a 2nd rounder

I’d bunch Orlov’s potential return somewhere between Chiarot and Lindholm. @g00n is probably pretty spot on in terms of a potential return, especially with retention

If we retain, and allow a team to negotiate an extension, it should be a first and a blue chip prospect. Could greatly accelerate a retool/rebuild.

 

[twabby]

I’d be disappointed if it’s just a first round pick+ for Orlov. I’d hope for that type of return for Jensen.

MacLellan needs to advertise their players now. There’s something to be said for getting names out there and building hype. Montreal expertly did that last year with Chiarot, and Columbus is doing it this year with Gavrikov. Both are vastly inferior players to Orlov and Jensen.

Start hyping the hell out of Orlov, Jensen, and Hathaway and who knows, that could be 3 first round picks plus another significant piece. Eller’s reputation probably exceeds his value now, start selling Eller to everyone and I could see him getting a second round pick.

 

[hb13xchamps]

You're being delusional if you think the Capitals have another cup run in them in the remaining years of Ovechkin with the club. With three years remaining on his contract after this year, I think the best you can hope for is Ovie attaining the personal goal of becoming the all time NHL goal scorer. Other then that, it'll be sometime before this team will become competitive again and this season will just be the beginning of a playoff drought for this franchise.

We know who the current UFAs are on the team, this time next year you can put Wilson and Mantha there and the year after it'll be Kuznetsov, Backstrom and Oshie.

Orlov's availability would place him above the likes of Gavrikov and Chychrun. Just using Toronto as a potential trade partner, the asking price should be '24 and '25 first round picks and Knies. Look at what the Leafs just gave up in the St. Louis trade and I believe that Orlov would have more of an impact come the playoffs then those players.

Orlov is not returning two 1st rounders and a blue chip prospect as a rental. It’s not happening. Chychrun holds more value than he does just by his age and contract alone. $4.6 million cap hit for two more seasons as a top pairing guy at the age of 24, versus an almost 32 year old wanting significant term and a payday.

I’m giving up assets for Chychrun all day over Orlov. He’s the type of player I’d target to help retool the team with any type of assets we potentially acquire from trading UFAs.

 

[Langway]

Ovechkin's got another three years left. If they're hitting on a later first proper they should be able to make the jump within that time frame. They'd need to do better than CMM/Lapierre when it comes to grit and strength base but it's doable. Honzek, But and Brindley could be capable of making the jump relatively quickly somewhere perhaps in the later first range. But's contract is up in two years and physically he could fill out by then. Couple that with a Barlow/Sale/Leonard/Yager/Danielson/Dvorsky level prospect and they'd have the makings of a quicker middle six mix when you add in Miro and maybe one of McMichael/Lapierre. That's probably not enough to well position themselves in '24-25 or '25-26 on the face of it. They would need to knock one or two of those picks out of the park (and to enable that would need an organizational pivot to a more nuanced, skilled developmental approach).

It's worth considering flipping potential deadline assets at the draft for any 24/25yos that happen to shake loose. Maybe Brock Boeser if they were to move Oshie or something, albeit not for even a late first. Others will also be in that market, though, specifically St. Louis. I don't tend to expect them to radically and quickly change the core group. When does that happen over the course of a deadline and one off-season all the while becoming immediately competitive? It would need to be a process that begins (in theory) within the next two weeks but more likely something that may take a few years to execute in full. There are so many layers to their issues that it's hard to expect them to be solved over the next six months barring a LTIRement or two. A new coaching staff, maybe a lot of new faces on the blueline and their bottom six but IMO their only prayer is to mainly smash a high pick or two. Everything else largely rests on fortunate external market conditions that may not be present. Even the draft involves a fair bit of luck and good fortune but I think it's unavoidable that it has to be the main source for improvement. That does require patience to be sure and we can question if they'll have it. They probably do not and for that will likely be mired in mediocrity from here on out.

FWIW I think the Oilers should be the main player for Orlov. Perfect fit for them. Better than adding Karlsson and going all All-Star Game.

 

[hb13xchamps]

I’d be disappointed if it’s just a first round pick+ for Orlov. I’d hope for that type of return for Jensen.

MacLellan needs to advertise their players now. There’s something to be said for getting names out there and building hype. Montreal expertly did that last year with Chiarot, and Columbus is doing it this year with Gavrikov. Both are vastly inferior players to Orlov and Jensen.

Start hyping the hell out of Orlov, Jensen, and Hathaway and who knows, that could be 3 first round picks plus another significant piece. Eller’s reputation probably exceeds his value now, start selling Eller to everyone and I could see him getting a second round pick.

A 2nd for Eller is more than feasible. The only center potentially available better would be Monahan and that depends on what type of player they value in return. Eller’s experience as a cup winner and his PK ability alone should make him valuable to teams looking for a solid bottom 6 player. Plus, Toews is out of the running to be moved this TDL

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

I don't get the mentality on this board of underselling assets. General comments like "we should add a 1st to move Mantha's contract" are pointless. If a deal isn't a favorable deal, don't make it.

At least slightly optimistic posts reflect the trade mentality I want GMBM to have.

So yes, Leafs 2023 & 2024 1st round picks + prospect (with 50% retention and negotiation allowed) for Orlov.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Delete

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

A 2nd for Eller is more than feasible. The only center potentially available better would be Monahan and that depends on what type of player they value in return. Eller’s experience as a cup winner and his PK ability alone should make him valuable to teams looking for a solid bottom 6 player. Plus, Toews is out of the running to be moved this TDL

A future 2nd maybe, 2024 or 2025. I just don’t think a 16-point 3C is going to move the needle much for a contender.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

DELETE

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

1st plus 2nd + prospect for Jensen
1st plus 2nd for Hathaway
1st for Eller
1st for Gus.

Those should be the starting points. Ask and you will receive.

 

[twabby]

I don't get the mentality on this board of underselling assets. General comments like "we should add a 1st to move Mantha's contract" are pointless. If a deal isn't a favorable deal, don't make it.

Agreed, and I think one of the benefits of planning to take a step back next season is that they don't have to feel pressured to dump bad contracts this offseason if the price is going to be too high. If they plan on going all-in next year then yeah, they probably have to pay to get rid of Mantha's contract. And Oshie's. And maybe Kuznetsov's.

If they are patient and use next year as a "reset" year, then Mantha's contract will expire. Oshie will only have one year left instead of two, theoretically making his contract more moveable. Who knows, Kuznetsov might have a bounceback year and then you can flip him for a positive asset.

To me it really seems like they need to aim for 2024-25 and 2025-26 and their real competitive years. They have a pretty unique opportunity to make a killing at this TDL to set themselves up for a quick turnaround, but I think next year is far too optimistic to expect a competitive team again.

 

[Peeri]

1st plus 2nd + prospect for Jensen
1st plus 2nd for Hathaway
1st for Eller
1st for Gus.

Those should be the starting points. Ask and you will receive.

You are throwing 1st rounders here like they are worth nothing. Personally I don't see anyone on this list being worth a 1st. We will see how the market ends up.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Amassing picks right now gives us a great deal of flexibility for THIS draft. Move up at the draft, or package with players for hockey trade now or at the draft.

Lots of potential flexibility would follow.

 

[notDkristich]

Sell all of the UFAs.

Attempt to resign: Jensen, Hathaway, and Orlov in the off-season. Decline Orlov if term 6+ years.
Consider resigning: Mojo, TVR, Aube-Kubel
Farewell: Irwin, Gus (too much $$$), Sheary, Eller, Hagelin

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Twabby gets the potential for a potent quick turnaround, possibly here right now.

Also, consider that by NOT moving out any of our young prospects, we get the luxury for allowing a few to blossom over the next two years. That happens, and if it won't happen to the team that doesn't allow for it. Especially Ivan.

Also, everyone is focused on Ovi's contact end. If the Caps are retooled with a young new core ready to seriously contend for Cups, does he just retire. I bet not. A succession of one year deals could follow with Ovi as team leader and using that shot for 20 goals a year at least for another few years at least.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

I don't get the mentality on this board of underselling assets. General comments like "we should add a 1st to move Mantha's contract" are pointless. If a deal isn't a favorable deal, don't make it.

At least slightly optimistic posts reflect the trade mentality I want GMBM to have.

So yes, Leafs 2023 & 2024 1st round picks + prospect (with 50% retention and negotiation allowed) for Orlov.

Leafs don't have a 1st in this years draft/2023, they surrendered that in the St. Louis trade. Hence the '24/'25 1st round picks.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Leafs don't have a 1st in this years draft/2023, they surrendered that in the St. Louis trade. Hence the '24/'25 1st round picks.

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Thank you for the clarification. Point still stands with 24/25 1st pics if they are to be flipped for move ups/solid young talent.