Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 1: Free Agent Edition

[Hivemind]

I'd just like to remind people that, in only 10 games played, Michael Sgarbossa saw more total powerplay time than Connor McMichael last season. And that was with a powerplay that spent months of the season operating at or beneath 10% effectiveness, had a 1-for-31 stretch, and was missing players to injury for prolonged stretches. Yet the coaching staff turned to the likes of Michael Sgarbossa (and Garnet Hatheway and 18 games of Marcus Johansson) more than they turned to Connor McMichael (who saw less than 6 minutes of PP time across the whole year).

There's absolutely no explanation for it. Even if you buy into the "CMM wasn't ready defensively" arguments (which aren't supported by either stats or the eye test - especially when compared to some of the other players who did get ice time) - why would that impact CMM's utilization on the powerplay? And, once again, its not like the PP was playing well or that the current players on the PP were earning their ice time.

The answer is obvious. The issue lies with the coaching staff's utilization of young players, and skilled forwards in particular.

 

[YippieKaey]

I'd just like to remind people that, in only 10 games played, Michael Sgarbossa saw more total powerplay time than Connor McMichael last season. And that was with a powerplay that spent months of the season operating at or beneath 10% effectiveness, had a 1-for-31 stretch, and was missing players to injury for prolonged stretches. Yet the coaching staff turned to the likes of Michael Sgarbossa (and Garnet Hatheway and 18 games of Marcus Johansson) more than they turned to Connor McMichael (who saw less than 6 minutes of PP time across the whole year).

There's absolutely no explanation for it. Even if you buy into the "CMM wasn't ready defensively" arguments (which aren't supported by either stats or the eye test - especially when compared to some of the other players who did get ice time) - why would that impact CMM's utilization on the powerplay? And, once again, its not like the PP was playing well or that the current players on the PP were earning their ice time.

The answer is obvious. The issue lies with the coaching staff's utilization of young players, and skilled forwards in particular.

I'd argue that in Hathaways case he represented a different skillset/piece on the pp. Not sure about Sgarbossa but Johansson and CMM also present different skillsets on the pp.

That's at least part of the explanation

 

[Hivemind]

I'd argue that in Hathaways case he represented a different skillset/piece on the pp. Not sure about Sgarbossa but Johansson and CMM also present different skillsets on the pp.

That's at least part of the explanation

None of those "differing skillsets" worked. I'd also challenge how differing they were.

Johansson brings zone entries and working around the net. CMM brings.... well zone entries and working around the net.

 

[trick9]

So is the JT Miller package enough for Tkachuk?

McMichael, Lapierre, 1st

Man that could be fun.

I don't think so.

I'd gladly overpay for an extended Tkachuk. He's a treat to watch.

Mantha + Lapierre + Miro + i'd move in a second. If it took Mantha + Lapierre + CMM i'd do it too. Maybe even add a pick.

 

[Cappy76]

I agree, why are people so hell bent on gifting players like Lars Eller a spot in the lineup? He doesn't need to be coddled! He's a man and can win a fair competition!

I think all us participation trophy-era people (i.e. the Silent Generation) are asking for is a truly fair competition, which we fear will not come to pass due to the coach's tendencies.

This…

I can absolutely see CMM outplaying Eller in camp/preseason and still having CMM playing 7 mins a night because Eller is a proven vet in Lavis mind. My deal with moving Eller would be to force Lavis hand. Hell we saw it last year with his constant use of the Dowd/Hath/Hags line getting minutes over the younger options despite the eye/metric tests both showing other players were out performing them

 

[Jags]

Not sure why some of you guys are hell bent on gifting guys spots

That's not the argument being made here. There are people here saying that Laviolette might very well choose Eller over McMichael even if McMichael outplays him in camp. And they could easily be right, because we all saw Laviolette choose Eller over McMichael last season, even when McMichael outplayed him at the position.

Given that, the 3.5m in cap space that could be much better utilized elsewhere, and whatever asset(s) might come from an Eller trade, there's little reason to keep him. Depth at the position doesn't have to cost that much, and McMichael will have to earn his spot regardless.

 

[HTFN]

That's not the argument being made here. There are people here saying that Laviolette might very well choose Eller over McMichael even if McMichael outplays him in camp. And they could easily be right, because we all saw Laviolette choose Eller over McMichael last season, even when McMichael outplayed him at the position.

Given that, the 3.5m in cap space that could be much better utilized elsewhere, and whatever asset(s) might come from an Eller trade, there's little reason to keep him. Depth at the position doesn't have to cost that much, and McMichael will have to earn his spot regardless.

Again, a reminder that it wasn’t even between Eller and CMM last year even though it likely will be this year. I feel like it’s getting applied backwards and seems way more rational than what happened, which was like 14-17 minutes of Hagelin a night, often and regularly when they needed a goal more than defense.

Eller would have to deteriorate significantly to make it in the same ballpark

 

[hb13xchamps]

Let Carbery season for one more year before becoming the new Caps bench boss when Lavi sizzles out

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That's not the argument being made here. There are people here saying that Laviolette might very well choose Eller over McMichael even if McMichael outplays him in camp. And they could easily be right, because we all saw Laviolette choose Eller over McMichael last season, even when McMichael outplayed him at the position.

Given that, the 3.5m in cap space that could be much better utilized elsewhere, and whatever asset(s) might come from an Eller trade, there's little reason to keep him. Depth at the position doesn't have to cost that much, and McMichael will have to earn his spot regardless.

If CMM dominates/has a huge camp, and clearly shows well, it won’t happen.

I‘ve already said trade Eller, but if the team still believes CMM not ready for fulltime duty at C, what can you do? If it’s a tossup coming out of camp, the kid isn’t ready IMO.

 

[pman25]

Also is it so easy to trade Eller right now? Lots of teams are trying to dump cap as it is and not that many teams have a 3C spot openings especially for a guy making $3.5 AAV. Doubt there are many suitors. The teams that make the most sense are shitty teams with cap room and why do they need Eller? They can just plug in a Travis Boyd instead and save a couple mil. The teams that have cap space would rather use that to extract additional picks or assets from teams looking to dump guys.

 

[Jags]

what can you do? If it’s a tossup coming out of camp, the kid isn’t ready IMO.

Call me crazy, but if it's a tossup coming out of camp, I'm gonna go with the kid trending upward, not the 33-year-old trending downward that makes 4 times as much.

We know who Lars Eller is -- a defensively responsible offensive vacuum who we're walking away from in a year. I like him a lot, but he's standing in the way of progress now. Trade him straight up for another center to compete for the spot for all I care. Just don't give Laviolette the option of sticking with something we know doesn't work for us anymore. We need more from that spot.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Call me crazy, but if it's a tossup coming out of camp, I'm gonna go with the kid trending upward, not the 33-year-old trending downward that makes 4 times as much.

We know who Lars Eller is -- a defensively responsible offensive vacuum who we're walking away from in a year. I like him a lot, but he's standing in the way of progress now. Trade him straight up for another center to compete for the spot for all I care. Just don't give Laviolette the option of sticking with something we know doesn't work for us anymore. We need more from that spot.

Again, that’s taking the unestablished guy via gift assignment….if he’s not winning his spot, he’s not pushing out the incumbant.

 

[pman25]

here i solved it. Lars Eller sticking around is probably fine (and needed). We got plenty more covid to catch this fall so I'd just keep all the bodies around.

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Mantha
Sheary-Strome-Brown
Johansson-McMichael-Oshie
Eller-Dowd-Hathaway
AJF

 

[HTFN]

Again, that’s taking the unestablished guy via gift assignment….if he’s not winning his spot, he’s not pushing out the incumbant.

I wouldn’t say that if borderline “equals” in camp and it’s a toss up. That seems more like letting the lifeguard swim laps while a younger swimmer watches instead of letting the young swimmer go try his best while the lifeguard is still around to keep things safe.

The first option almost has to be technically “safer” but later the lifeguard won’t be here either way and the real question is how effectively the time spent together was used for all parties.

 

[RedRocking]

I think a lot depends on how Strome does during tc too. We can’t go with Dowd as our only defensively responsible center.

If Strome is as one dimensional as everyone and the stats seem to indicate (and CMM hasn’t improved his 200 ft game either), I don’t think it’s a bad idea to keep Eller around for his last year.

If we’re holding a lead late, who do you want to see out there after Dowd’s shift? Or on PK2? I’d still prefer Eller, at least until one of CMM/Strome can be a 2 way player. Hopefully CMM can step up, but it may take a chunk of the season to get there.

And yes, I know Kuzy has done well coming in at the end PKs, but that’s not sufficient to solve this potential problem imo. Too many question marks at C to just punt on a reliable guy, at least right now.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Calicaps]

I agree, why are people so hell bent on gifting players like Lars Eller a spot in the lineup? He doesn't need to be coddled! He's a man and can win a fair competition!

I think all us participation trophy-era people (i.e. the Silent Generation) are asking for is a truly fair competition, which we fear will not come to pass due to the coach's tendencies.

First off, the Silent Generation were born in the 1930s and I'm pretty sure the only participation trophy they ever got was just surviving the Great Depression.

Second, being a hockey player is like any other job in that it belongs to the person in it. If you want their job, you better make it impossible for their boss to avoid the unpleasant task of removing them. Nothing CMM did last year achieved that. As much as you want it to be about Eller, it isn't. It's about McMichael. Ellen earned his job years ago, and in the ensuing years, he's done a lot to reward the team's faith in him. CMM has no such cred. He needs to earn it just like Lars did.

 

[Calicaps]

Let Carbery season for one more year before becoming the new Caps bench boss when Lavi sizzles out

I like Carbery, but the Caps wasted most of Ovie's prime years cycling through rookie head coaches. Let him take a job elsewhere and make his mistakes there. Then he can come run the Caps. And at the risk of sounding like an a-hole, saying 'he coached all these guys in Hershey' means precisely dick. Gabby coached the Caps best slate of prospects maybe ever to 2 Calder Cups and couldn't take those same players past the second round in the NHL... And he still hasn't broken through anywhere.

 

[twabby]

First off, the Silent Generation were born in the 1930s and I'm pretty sure the only participation trophies they ever got was just surviving the Great Depression.

Second, being a hockey player is like any other job in that it belongs to the person in it. If you want their job, you better make it impossible for their boss to avoid the unpleasant task of removing them. Nothing CMM did last year achieved that. As much as you want it to be about Eller, it isn't. It's about McMichael. Ellen earned his job years ago, and in the ensuing years, he's done a lot to reward the team's faith in him. CMM has no such cred. He needs to earn it just like Lars did.

Like I don’t know when my generation was from!

I want to see them win another Stanley Cup. In order to do that they need to push every edge they can get. I think gifting veterans spots over less “established” but better players goes counter to building the best team possible. This same logic is why Trevor van Riemsdyk was a healthy scratch in 2020-21 despite being a superior player to Zdeno Chara and Justin Schultz, why Jonas Siegenthaler is excelling as a Devil instead of in DC, why Nate Schmidt was eating healthy scratches in favor of Karl Alzner who could barely skate, etc.

 

[hb13xchamps]

I like Carbery, but the Caps wasted most of Ovie's prime years cycling through rookie head coaches. Let him take a job elsewhere and make his mistakes there. Then he can come run the Caps. And at the risk of sounding like an a-hole, saying 'he coached all these guys in Hershey' means precisely dick. Gabby coached the Caps best slate of prospects maybe ever to 2 Calder Cups and couldn't take those same players past the second round in the NHL... And he still hasn't broken through anywhere.

2 completely different situations. 2 completely different types of coaches. Bruce was a perennial playoff loser until her won the Calder Cup with the Bears. His prior playoff success wasn’t very good.

Carbery made the best names in hockey under 40 for a reason. Guys had some incredible growth and even overachieved under his tutelage. On top of it all, he was doing this primarily through a pandemic. He’s a great communicator and a great hockey mind. Took a middle of the pack Toronto powerplay and instantly made it the best in the league in one season. There’s a reason his name keeps coming up as coaching candidates. I would much rather have Carbery than some old recycled head coach who only gets a 2nd, 3rd or 4th chance because he is part of the boys club that is the NHL.

 

[Hivemind]

I like Carbery, but the Caps wasted most of Ovie's prime years cycling through rookie head coaches. Let him take a job elsewhere and make his mistakes there. Then he can come run the Caps. And at the risk of sounding like an a-hole, saying 'he coached all these guys in Hershey' means precisely dick. Gabby coached the Caps best slate of prospects maybe ever to 2 Calder Cups and couldn't take those same players past the second round in the NHL... And he still hasn't broken through anywhere.

Because our current veteran coach has done so much to help the Capitals get another Cup, right? Not to mention the past three Stanley Cup champions have been coached by head coaches on their first NHL head coaching gig.

It's not about being a rookie or a veteran coach, it's about being the right coach for the job. A lot of teams seem to think Carbery is worth considering for their jobs, and he's going to get his chance soon enough. And if Carbery does end up panning out, it's going to sting to know that the Capitals let him slip from their grasp while clinging to a veteran name that ended up being the wrong fit.

(Also the irony of Boudreau as an example of the perils of signing a rookie coach is.... wow.... )

 

[SherVaughn30]

Wish we could hire Carberry for our vacancy and then make him like associate head coach to take over when Lavi goes...

Maybe it's me, but Spencer Carbery has that Dominic Torreto look! Let's hope he doesn't get the job. Caps should lure him in to be Assistant Coach of the forwards, but with the title Associate Coach. If Ted doesn't want to renew Laviolette's contract(I have the feeling assistant coach McCarthy might want to retire soon), Carbery becomes the new Caps coach as he's had the advantage of coaching our prospects/players in Hershey.

I said that above your post!

 

[HTFN]

First off, the Silent Generation were born in the 1930s and I'm pretty sure the only participation trophy they ever got was just surviving the Great Depression.

Second, being a hockey player is like any other job in that it belongs to the person in it. If you want their job, you better make it impossible for their boss to avoid the unpleasant task of removing them. Nothing CMM did last year achieved that. As much as you want it to be about Eller, it isn't. It's about McMichael. Ellen earned his job years ago, and in the ensuing years, he's done a lot to reward the team's faith in him. CMM has no such cred. He needs to earn it just like Lars did.

Am I on somebody’s ignore list or is it once again worth repeating that this CMM/Eller thing for this coming season has literally nothing to do with last year?

The idea isn’t that CMM did so much last year Eller is expendable. The idea is that any coin flip is going to go to Eller, because players as bad as Hagelin were winning them regularly last season and no version of the eye or stat test was making sense of that (and the team got better as soon as Hagelin was decommissioned).

If we can have the stupid version of that conversation last year it seems almost certain we’ll have it again with a much better player in the fold, and that’s not unique to this situation with these players where Laviolette is concerned.

 

[SherVaughn30]

Let Carbery season for one more year before becoming the new Caps bench boss when Lavi sizzles out

Why wait? Lure him by paying him more and giving him the Associate Coach title!

 

[Hivemind]

Why wait? Lure him by paying him more and giving him the Associate Coach title!

As much as I would love Carbery to be given serious consideration as the next head coach of the Washington Capitals (as soon as this season), I would like to avoid another "heir apparent" situation like we had with Trotz and Reirden. That manifested itself poorly and closed off other options from the HC gig.