Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 1: Free Agent Edition

[twabby]

“This isn’t a developmental league”…….



It is if you‘re trying to ice the most competitive team you can and the coaches decision doesn’t go his way. It’s up to CMM to earn his spot.

Of course his play did merit a spot over Eller last year and he still couldn’t earn a spot.

 

[usiel]

I briefly studied Judo and noticed the lack of finishing techniques. A style I studied called Tuk Gong moo sul sounds similar to what you're talking about. It's a a slightly watered down version of what they practice in the Korean military. Similar to Judo but with strikes and weapons (mostly knives).

I learned a little of bit of one the Filipino knife fighting MA (I believe it was Kali) from a couple friends. It was cool but I never got too into it.

Anyway...

Ugh, late July is the worst part of the offseason. Those 2 months always seem like they take forever lol

I think a lot of the military hand to hand combat stuff takes a lot of the best and most practical real world stuff from anything martial art. My sensei was also a black belt in some other MAs and would always teach some fantastic street techniques from other styles to round out training even though the belt tests were strictly jujitsu stuff. He has this old merchant marine guy who was a big kendo/jujitsu guy and he was also good on the real world bar fight back alley brawl stuff. The one brief story I recall him telling was he was a bystander for a brawl or some civil disturbance not doing anything and he gets his right sholder grabbed from his blind spot. He instinctively used a technique where when someone grabs you there you simply windmill that arm up and around the arm holding you and after you loop around the elbow you shoot that arm vertical which basically separates that shoulder big time. Then he realizes it was some uniform beat cop who scream and drops to the ground I think he said he was sorry and high tailed it.

Re: GMBM interview. One thing to remember it is ultimately Lavi who decide who plays and how much ice time. I do feel it is short sighted to play an older player who, maybe won't make a mistake, but just treads water on the ice versus a young player that might make a mistake here and there but have much more room to be better than the veteran. I'm talking regular season the playoffs are a different.

I mean if Eller comes into TC playing way better than last year that is great I won't complain but at the age he is those that have watched the game for many years know that that is a rarity.

If Strome playing center needs to be sheltered ala zone starts than McM should be playing. My viewing is so limited on Strome during his chicago time I will keep an open mind and see how the preseason games go.

I do like the MaJo resigning as an Haglin replacement.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Of course his play did merit a spot over Eller last year and he still couldn’t earn a spot.

I saw Eller on wing and CMM at center. maybe you should watch the games?

New season with a summer to prepare. I expect a bounce back season from Eller if he stays and CMM to show better. Let the chips fall as they may.

 

[pman25]

Kinda okay with this plan for now. Make em sweat and compete in training camp. Maybe trade someone(s) during camp or in season when Wilson returns

 

[zappa4ever]

I think Eller had just about the most asked of him out of all the FWDs last season...

Since lines 1, 2, and 4 were settled, Eller was in the unenviable position of having to be a Danish-Army-Knife by centering the 1 line that rotated wingers constantly, rotated young bucks in regularly, moved up and down as other C's got injured and moved to wing to give McMic a chance;

all while getting Covid 2x and I think Flu mid season too? I think he finally started getting healthy/looking like El Tigre the last dozen games of RS

I wouldn't mind him starting the season as a stabilizing force until McMic/Strome/Brown et al show they can handle their jobs/produce, then who knows maybe a mid-season trade...

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Nooooo

I think Eller had just about the most asked of him out of all the FWDs last season...

Since lines 1, 2, and 4 were settled, Eller was in the unenviable position of having to be a Danish-Army-Knife by centering the 1 line that rotated wingers constantly, rotated young bucks in regularly, moved up and down as other C's got injured and moved to wing to give McMic a chance;

all while getting Covid 2x and I think Flu mid season too? I think he finally started getting healthy/looking like El Tigre the last dozen games of RS

I wouldn't mind him starting the season as a stabilizing force until McMic/Strome/Brown et al show they can handle their jobs/produce, then who knows maybe a mid-season trade...

Eller will always be a Caps god to me but his trajectory has been on a downward trend for more than one season. He has a lower body injury that seems to be reoccurring and has slowed down as a result. Time for the Tiger to run free…elsewhere.

 

[DWGie26]

Personally I like the competition attitude, and yes, there will always be an error towards veterans when you are trying to win a cup, and error towards youth when you are trying to build. Here is a business analogy:

You are partner of a law firm and you get a case that can make bank and build the prestige of your firm. You have a top lawyer who is likely to leave the firm on an expiring contract, but he is savvy, experienced, knows discreet tricks, but he is older and not as polished as he once was. Then you have a potential rising star attorney, who is good, but he is green and cocky and prone to making mistakes that could cost you winning the case. Who do you put in?

A savvy managing partner Would probably put the veteran as the first seat and put the rookie as second (or third seat) so he can learn from the old dog. This doesn’t mean the partner doesn’t like the young attorney or believe he isn’t the future, but he isn’t willing to lose the case to train the rookie.

That is what we are seeing here.

 

[Silky mitts]

Unless they need the space you’re always going to get a bigger return for Eller during the season when some team has a center get hurt

 

[Roshi]

Unless they need the space you’re always going to get a bigger return for Eller during the season when some team has a center get hurt

Also base of need/usage applies on if one of our centers get hurt.

No harm keeping him here. Only should trade if there is serious upgrade avaivable on some other part of the game and we really need the cap space for that.

CMM got his ice time last season, but Eller was more rounded. I trust Laviolette to know his job better than fancy stats experts on hfboards, he likely have his reasons why Eller kept his spot last year - instead of like ”ahh but im an old coach so im supposed to favour veterans”. Thats the guy CMM needs to impress, not some xarga60 statistic line.

 

[SherVaughn30]

Nooooo




Eller will always be a Caps god to me but his trajectory has been on a downward trend for more than one season. He has a lower body injury that seems to be reoccurring and has slowed down as a result. Time for the Tiger to run free…elsewhere.

Maybe it's me, but Spencer Carbery has that Dominic Torreto look! Let's hope he doesn't get the job. Caps should lure him in to be Assistant Coach of the forwards, but with the title Associate Coach. If Ted doesn't want to renew Laviolette's contract(I have the feeling assistant coach McCarthy might want to retire soon), Carbery becomes the new Caps coach as he's had the advantage of coaching our prospects/players in Hershey.

 

[HTFN]

Also base of need/usage applies on if one of our centers get hurt.

No harm keeping him here. Only should trade if there is serious upgrade avaivable on some other part of the game and we really need the cap space for that.

CMM got his ice time last season, but Eller was more rounded. I trust Laviolette to know his job better than fancy stats experts on hfboards, he likely have his reasons why Eller kept his spot last year - instead of like ”ahh but im an old coach so im supposed to favour veterans”. Thats the guy CMM needs to impress, not some xarga60 statistic line.

It wasn’t CMM vs Eller last year though, it was Please God Anybody vs the ghost of Carl Hagelin and they lost games as a result. Really simple “eye test” games too, not expected games in an aggregate.

I’m again reminded of the game in which McMichael scored and saw the bench so that Hagelin could score (in his own net) and then be given regular shifts to shake it off and defend down the stretch, got spun out of his skates way late to his man, and allowed the game to be tied (they lost).

The MO is the same as Nashville fans had wrestled with, he doesn’t develop young players to be anything that isn’t “serviceable middle six utility knife” and he’ll cling to those guys until the game is already lost, and then also somehow play them in garbage time because they’re good guys who deserve it.

 

[Raikkonen]

I don't think Lavi isn't right when relying on vets

CMM didn't show he's reliable C in the NHL

yet

Eller did a lot of good things for Caps, and if CMM wants his spot he should outplay him clearly

I don't see a problem

 

[Roshi]

It wasn’t CMM vs Eller last year though, it was Please God Anybody vs the ghost of Carl Hagelin and they lost games as a result. Really simple “eye test” games too, not expected games in an aggregate.

I’m again reminded of the game in which McMichael scored and saw the bench so that Hagelin could score (in his own net) and then be given regular shifts to shake it off and defend down the stretch, got spun out of his skates way late to his man, and allowed the game to be tied (they lost).

The MO is the same as Nashville fans had wrestled with, he doesn’t develop young players to be anything that isn’t “serviceable middle six utility knife” and he’ll cling to those guys until the game is already lost, and then also somehow play them in garbage time because they’re good guys who deserve it.

For many of ”us” it comes to that one game where CMM was good, or that one statline or that short sample size where the eye test shows something.

For Laviolette the decisions come from day in day out seeing them all up close - not just playing one game or even ten games, but training together, eating together, living the pro life together. How they react to situations, how they adjust to situations and how they work and affect as part of the group. Along with decades of experience from his own, and his assistant group.

He doesnt just let a silly bounce like Hagelins own goal to determine the direction and symphiosis of the whole group and season. He has a structure and gameplan and he makes decisions that he feels are the right for maximum result. Trust the process, trust your guys. You want to be there, outplay the current staff into the point where you dont give the coach other chance than to put you there.

Sometimes, quite often, individuals effect on team performance in a sports like hockey or soccer goes beyond statistics, or even how they perform on ice on a single night or three. Is there still someone who doesnt see how big part of the cup run and how big of an effect Orpik had on us - despite being heavily critisized not only league wide, but especially in our own boards.

I think i still take Lavis opinion on how to win NHL-games over anyone in hfboards, including my own.

Edit. Just for example Hfboars is laughing for CBJ signing Gudbranson for the contract he got. Im not, i get it. You want to build something, you start by getting the right kind of guys to build the culture and set the level of demand. Im sure there were lots of offers for Gudbranson to pick from, and the fact Kekalainen said he was their nr1 target tells you enough. Everyone who has been on the locker room knows how important those guys are for the team, even if they arent always the best players on the ice. I dont think thats a spot they just want or should to give to a young guy for developemental aspect, and maybe its not coincedence that right after good things start to happen and Johnny Hockey follows.

 

[g00n]

After hanging on to Sammy and trying to force him into the 1A role I think GMBM is hesitant to just hand positions to prospects.

 

[RandyHolt]

Random Summer Doldrums

Hopefully GMBM is hesitant to retain goalie coaches in the face of failed prospects. Murray - 5 years?

I think young scoring forwards like CMM will struggle/never find a grove with 0 PP time to gain confidence chemistry and points, top shelf talent aside. Id like to see him get a 5 game audition as a scoring C before giving up yes with PP time.

I am still astonished that the random guy I met at a winery during the playoffs knew Willy would miss time this fall.

I am old but have been fooling people for decades. Everyone thinks I lie when I reveal my age and end up arguing with them - who the f adds 10 years to their actual age in casual conversation?? Perks and pitfalls of looking young include getting carded still.

 

[JohnCarlsaurus]

I think a lot of the military hand to hand combat stuff takes a lot of the best and most practical real world stuff from anything martial art. My sensei was also a black belt in some other MAs and would always teach some fantastic street techniques from other styles to round out training even though the belt tests were strictly jujitsu stuff. He has this old merchant marine guy who was a big kendo/jujitsu guy and he was also good on the real world bar fight back alley brawl stuff. The one brief story I recall him telling was he was a bystander for a brawl or some civil disturbance not doing anything and he gets his right sholder grabbed from his blind spot. He instinctively used a technique where when someone grabs you there you simply windmill that arm up and around the arm holding you and after you loop around the elbow you shoot that arm vertical which basically separates that shoulder big time. Then he realizes it was some uniform beat cop who scream and drops to the ground I think he said he was sorry and high tailed it.

Re: GMBM interview. One thing to remember it is ultimately Lavi who decide who plays and how much ice time. I do feel it is short sighted to play an older player who, maybe won't make a mistake, but just treads water on the ice versus a young player that might make a mistake here and there but have much more room to be better than the veteran. I'm talking regular season the playoffs are a different.

I mean if Eller comes into TC playing way better than last year that is great I won't complain but at the age he is those that have watched the game for many years know that that is a rarity.

If Strome playing center needs to be sheltered ala zone starts than McM should be playing. My viewing is so limited on Strome during his chicago time I will keep an open mind and see how the preseason games go.

I do like the MaJo resigning as an Haglin replacement.

Oh definitely. My first sensei taught us something he learned in the military that most places don't teach. There wasn't an official name for it but my friends and I called it gang sparring. You'd have one person basically just try to survive against two or three people at once. It was both enlightening and humbling. I learned I was no Bruce Lee lol.

I know the technique you're referring to, or at least something similar. One of my buddies accidentally hyperextended my right arm while practicing it years ago. The whole class heard the pop.

I'm encouraged by what my friends who are Hawks fans' (vs social media) have told me about Strome. Basically, he's a solid player and if you have good wingers (which we do) he'll do fine.

Wonder what we'll get from the new Carlsson, don't know anything about him. It's a two-way deal but he spent most of last season in the NHL

 

[YippieKaey]

It wasn’t CMM vs Eller last year though, it was Please God Anybody vs the ghost of Carl Hagelin and they lost games as a result. Really simple “eye test” games too, not expected games in an aggregate.

I’m again reminded of the game in which McMichael scored and saw the bench so that Hagelin could score (in his own net) and then be given regular shifts to shake it off and defend down the stretch, got spun out of his skates way late to his man, and allowed the game to be tied (they lost).

The MO is the same as Nashville fans had wrestled with, he doesn’t develop young players to be anything that isn’t “serviceable middle six utility knife” and he’ll cling to those guys until the game is already lost, and then also somehow play them in garbage time because they’re good guys who deserve it.

I would argue that unless your talent level is #generational learning middle six utility skills is a part of becoming a more well rounded player, which is crucial in the NHL. Remember Ovi's out of nowhere defensive game in the 2018 cup run? That's how games are won.

 

[twabby]

I saw Eller on wing and CMM at center. maybe you should watch the games?

New season with a summer to prepare. I expect a bounce back season from Eller if he stays and CMM to show better. Let the chips fall as they may.

All I saw was that Lars Eller got the same amount of 5v5 ice time as Alex Ovechkin and Evgeny Kuznetsov in the series against Florida, and was outscored by 6 goals during his time. In his last 4 postseasons, Lars Eller has zero non-empty net goals, and only 4 5v5 points. So it's not like Eller's been some playoff stud that you have to play no matter what.

McMichael got 1/3 of the 5v5 ice time that Eller got in the series against Florida, despite outplaying Eller for the majority of the regular season at center. McMichael broke even during his 5v5 time against Florida and had the same number of 5v5 points as Eller in the series (1), so the actual playoff results were also better.

I'm no small-town hockey coach from the prairies of Saskatchewan, but that sure seems like a puzzling coaching decision to me. Combine that with Laviolette's prior issues developing and trusting younger players in his other stints around the league and I wonder how much McMichael has to outplay a guy like Eller in order to earn a full time roster spot. Thus, my concern about the so-called "competition" this offseason not really being a competition at all. Perhaps it is just MacLellan trying not to tank Eller's trade value, in which case that is fine. But I have a bad feeling that McMichael will be on the outside looking in this next season despite his age 21 season being consistent with other players who take big steps in their age 22 seasons and then proceed to put together solid careers in the top 6.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Random Summer Doldrums

Hopefully GMBM is hesitant to retain goalie coaches in the face of failed prospects. Murray - 5 years?

I think young scoring forwards like CMM will struggle/never find a grove with 0 PP time to gain confidence chemistry and points, top shelf talent aside. Id like to see him get a 5 game audition as a scoring C before giving up yes with PP time.

I am still astonished that the random guy I met at a winery during the playoffs knew Willy would miss time this fall.

I am old but have been fooling people for decades. Everyone thinks I lie when I reveal my age and end up arguing with them - who the f adds 10 years to their actual age in casual conversation?? Perks and pitfalls of looking young include getting carded still.

Unless you live in a state that cards everyone, LOL. I’m always pleased to get carded at 52, and then they remind me of their “rule”.

Wind outta sails —- Hahahaha

 

[zappa4ever]

All I saw was that Lars Eller got the same amount of 5v5 ice time as Alex Ovechkin and Evgeny Kuznetsov in the series against Florida, and was outscored by 6 goals during his time. In his last 4 postseasons, Lars Eller has zero non-empty net goals, and only 4 5v5 points. So it's not like Eller's been some playoff stud that you have to play no matter what.

McMichael got 1/3 of the 5v5 ice time that Eller got in the series against Florida, despite outplaying Eller for the majority of the regular season at center. McMichael broke even during his 5v5 time against Florida and had the same number of 5v5 points as Eller in the series (1), so the actual playoff results were also better.

...//

While neither of them crushed it in the Playoffs,
Eller has Man-Strength and used it in the corners, fought for pucks and fought off his opposition
which is exactly what McMic lacks.
McMic (if he knows what's good for him) had better be in the gym every single day getting stronger, working on speed, and straightening out that shot if he wants to take the next step

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

All I saw was that Lars Eller got the same amount of 5v5 ice time as Alex Ovechkin and Evgeny Kuznetsov in the series against Florida, and was outscored by 6 goals during his time. In his last 4 postseasons, Lars Eller has zero non-empty net goals, and only 4 5v5 points. So it's not like Eller's been some playoff stud that you have to play no matter what.

McMichael got 1/3 of the 5v5 ice time that Eller got in the series against Florida, despite outplaying Eller for the majority of the regular season at center. McMichael broke even during his 5v5 time against Florida and had the same number of 5v5 points as Eller in the series (1), so the actual playoff results were also better.

I'm no small-town hockey coach from the prairies of Saskatchewan, but that sure seems like a puzzling coaching decision to me. Combine that with Laviolette's prior issues developing and trusting younger players in his other stints around the league and I wonder how much McMichael has to outplay a guy like Eller in order to earn a full time roster spot. Thus, my concern about the so-called "competition" this offseason not really being a competition at all. Perhaps it is just MacLellan trying not to tank Eller's trade value, in which case that is fine. But I have a bad feeling that McMichael will be on the outside looking in this next season despite his age 21 season being consistent with other players who take big steps in their age 22 seasons and then proceed to put together solid careers in the top 6.

"if you knew anything about the game, you'd be in the game"....

As GMBM said, he's probably a year ahead (of where he should be, due to Covid)...also, the goal is to win now. If CMM dominates in camp, it should take care of itself.

It's on him to earn his spot.

Not sure why some of you guys are hell bent on gifting guys spots....maybe it's the participation trophy era/mentality in play...if he's not taking a big step now, it's probably due to his ability (or inability) and not being ready to supplant vets.

 

[twabby]

"if you knew anything about the game, you'd be in the game"....

As GMBM said, he's probably a year ahead (of where he should be, due to Covid)...also, the goal is to win now. If CMM dominates in camp, it should take care of itself.

It's on him to earn his spot.

Not sure why some of you guys are hell bent on gifting guys spots....maybe it's the participation trophy era/mentality in play...if he's not taking a big step now, it's probably due to his ability (or inability) and not being ready to supplant vets.

I agree, why are people so hell bent on gifting players like Lars Eller a spot in the lineup? He doesn't need to be coddled! He's a man and can win a fair competition!

I think all us participation trophy-era people (i.e. the Silent Generation) are asking for is a truly fair competition, which we fear will not come to pass due to the coach's tendencies.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Wish we could hire Carberry for our vacancy and then make him like associate head coach to take over when Lavi goes...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I agree, why are people so hell bent on gifting players like Lars Eller a spot in the lineup? He doesn't need to be coddled! He's a man and can win a fair competition!

I think all us participation trophy-era people (i.e. the Silent Generation) are asking for is a truly fair competition, which we fear will not come to pass due to the coach's tendencies.

You don’t seem to understand the model…..the rookies/youngsters have to outplay proven vets…

Doing OK in sheltered time is nice, but he needs to dominate or show a lot of flashes also. He just hasn’t so far and that’s ok, he’s young.

 

[HTFN]

For many of ”us” it comes to that one game where CMM was good, or that one statline or that short sample size where the eye test shows something.

For Laviolette the decisions come from day in day out seeing them all up close - not just playing one game or even ten games, but training together, eating together, living the pro life together. How they react to situations, how they adjust to situations and how they work and affect as part of the group. Along with decades of experience from his own, and his assistant group.

He doesnt just let a silly bounce like Hagelins own goal to determine the direction and symphiosis of the whole group and season. He has a structure and gameplan and he makes decisions that he feels are the right for maximum result. Trust the process, trust your guys. You want to be there, outplay the current staff into the point where you dont give the coach other chance than to put you there.

Sometimes, quite often, individuals effect on team performance in a sports like hockey or soccer goes beyond statistics, or even how they perform on ice on a single night or three. Is there still someone who doesnt see how big part of the cup run and how big of an effect Orpik had on us - despite being heavily critisized not only league wide, but especially in our own boards.

I think i still take Lavis opinion on how to win NHL-games over anyone in hfboards, including my own.

Edit. Just for example Hfboars is laughing for CBJ signing Gudbranson for the contract he got. Im not, i get it. You want to build something, you start by getting the right kind of guys to build the culture and set the level of demand. Im sure there were lots of offers for Gudbranson to pick from, and the fact Kekalainen said he was their nr1 target tells you enough. Everyone who has been on the locker room knows how important those guys are for the team, even if they arent always the best players on the ice. I dont think thats a spot they just want or should to give to a young guy for developemental aspect, and maybe its not coincedence that right after good things start to happen and Johnny Hockey follows.

Sorry dude, but Hagelin ain’t that guy and it was way more than one bounce. That’s just a very easy bundle that all happened to be in one game and shows you EXACTLY how the coach will bench one guy for not giving enough and then give the other ample space and time to “work through” something he’ll never stop being, even to the detriment of the team.