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Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 3

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txpd said:
You must not think much of Siegenthaler.
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Well I think he's a promising young defender. Out of many young promising defenders who will all need playing time.

Either way. Siegenthaler is only used as an example because he was our most prominent RFA this year, nothing more.
 
tenken00 said:
Well I think he's a promising young defender. Out of many young promising defenders who will all need playing time.

Either way. Siegenthaler is only used as an example because he was our most prominent RFA this year, nothing more.
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Need playing time? 1 is going to get playing time. Siegenthaler. 1 is going to play when healthy. 1 has a primary role on the team.

If just an example, why do you think teams dont use the offer sheet? You think it would be to their advantage to do it clearly and easily but they dont?
 
txpd said:
Need playing time? 1 is going to get playing time. Siegenthaler. 1 is going to play when healthy. 1 has a primary role on the team.

If just an example, why do you think teams dont use the offer sheet? You think it would be to their advantage to do it clearly and easily but they dont?
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I think I spelled my reasoning out clearly lol. Dont know how I could spell it out more so.
 
txpd said:
Ok....agree to disagree. Next?
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Ah, you don't have to next it. Its just a civil debate, nothing wrong with it. Boredom in the middle of the offseason with nothing else going on. So tell me why offer sheets are not used. Do you think they can be a beneficial tool?
 
tenken00 said:
Ah, you don't have to next it. Its just a civil debate, nothing wrong with it. Boredom in the middle of the offseason with nothing else going on. So tell me why offer sheets are not used. Do you think they can be a beneficial tool?
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I think it’s clear offer sheets are not an effective tool overall in the NHL.
 
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CapitalsCupReality said:
I think it’s clear offer sheets are not an effective tool overall in the NHL.
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So let's turn this back to what started this discussion. The Tampa trio of Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak. The fact that not one of them got a single offer sheet even though Tampa still hasn't fixed their cap situation is because teams believe they are ineffective players? That they aren't willing to give up picks for them? That they wouldn't improve someone else's team? That the players themselves wouldn't sign an offer sheet like Siegenthaler wouldn't?

What makes it an ineffective tool? Is it because the tool itself is ineffective or the attitude about it renders it so?
 
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txpd said:
Yes
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Alright I'm done I guess. I'm just banging my head for no reason.. This feels like talking to people who believe that assists, which includes secondary assists, are the equivalent of goals. Or that players shouldn't pretend to light their sticks on fire after a goal.
 
It's ineffective because the players are shamed into staying with their hometown clubs instead of maximizing their worth on the market, the GMs are all friends with each other and would rather play nice than play to win, and because the draft pick compensation is way too much at the higher tiers.
 
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twabby said:
It's ineffective because the players are shamed into staying with their hometown clubs instead of maximizing their worth on the market, the GMs are all friends with each other and would rather play nice than play to win, and because the draft pick compensation is way too much at the higher tiers.
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pretty much this....

flawed mechanics of the tool (cost prohibitive) and the GMs don’t want to use it for fear of someone else poaching them.

I wonder if an expanded compensatory draft pick system similar to what the NFL does could help the NHL. That’s way teams who lose UFAs at least recoup some additional draft capital but not at a direct cost to another team.
 
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tenken00 said:
Alright I'm done I guess. I'm just banging my head for no reason.. This feels like talking to people who believe that assists, which includes secondary assists, are the equivalent of goals. Or that players shouldn't pretend to light their sticks on fire after a goal.
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see above...also takes 2 to tango.....the players have to be willing to sign the offer.
 
CapitalsCupReality said:
see above...also takes 2 to tango.....the players have to be willing to sign the offer.
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Well yeah, let the players decide. Give them that choice. By not even offering one in the first place they don't even have that choice. I think one of Cirelli, Sergachev, or Cernak would sign one given a reasonable offer. Especially in light of the Tampa cap situation where one of them could be traded to a place where they don't want to go.

It's not like Tampa is some innocent princess that this came out all of a sudden out of nowhere. They knew what they were doing and were responsible for everything up to this point. They didn't have to give out NMCs and NTCs to players like Gourd and others. They themselves were responsible.
 
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tenken00 said:
So let's turn this back to what started this discussion. The Tampa trio of Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak. The fact that not one of them got a single offer sheet even though Tampa still hasn't fixed their cap situation is because teams believe they are ineffective players? That they aren't willing to give up picks for them? That they wouldn't improve someone else's team? That the players themselves wouldn't sign an offer sheet like Siegenthaler wouldn't?

What makes it an ineffective tool? Is it because the tool itself is ineffective or the attitude about it renders it so?
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How would you know this? Players have to sign the offer sheets.
 
tenken00 said:
It's not like Tampa is some innocent princess that this came out all of a sudden out of nowhere. They knew what they were doing and were responsible for everything up to this point. They didn't have to give out NMCs and NTCs to players like Gourd and others. They themselves were responsible.
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Innocent princess? Wow. Tampa Bay is a really good NHL job. Winning team. Great place to life. Often a dream place to live. I wouldnt conclude that any of these players are unhappy with their lot in life. There is no saying that the deal they sign in Tampa is worse than the one they could get in Edmonton.

edit: I dont think either Burakovsky or Grubauer wanted to leave Washington until it was clear their progress with the team was blocked ahead.
 
txpd said:
Innocent princess? Wow. Tampa Bay is a really good NHL job. Winning team. Great place to life. Often a dream place to live. I wouldnt conclude that any of these players are unhappy with their lot in life. There is no saying that the deal they sign in Tampa is worse than the one they could get in Edmonton.

edit: I dont think either Burakovsky or Grubauer wanted to leave Washington until it was clear their progress with the team was blocked ahead.
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Exactly. But this mess is of Tampa's own doing, and they will get to work out of their own irresponsibility through their own volition because of it being seen as taboo, and not because of anything being ineffective in of itself. Maybe they were banking on it. Just call a spade a spade.
 
tenken00 said:
I'm willing to say that they didn't a lot more than they did.
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That’s what we don’t know right? Are offer sheets verbally floated all the time and players shoot them down more often than not, or are they just not used?

I’d bet MANY are considered by GMs, that a decent number are even presented to agents verbally, but few make it beyond that for varying reasons, like players not wanting to leave, or the numbers don’t work, etc....
 
CapitalsCupReality said:
That’s what we don’t know right? Are offer sheets verbally floated all the time and players shoot them down more often than not, or are they just not used?

I’d bet MANY are considered by GMs, that a decent number are even presented to agents verbally, but few make it beyond that for varying reasons, like players not wanting to leave, or the numbers don’t work, etc....
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Agents are going to want to hear what the market has to offer. They use that stuff wherever they can
 
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