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Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 3

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txpd said:
Agents are going to want to hear what the market has to offer. They use that stuff wherever they can
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correct, but without signed offer sheets, it’s all hot air.....agents and GMs can BS their way around it with “verbals”....no proof from either side until the player finally relents to leave.

More often than not, I bet that’s the last domino (and where most offer sheets die). Does the player want out?

Because as soon as he signs it, even if somewhere deep inside he hopes his team matches, the optics are that he wants his best deal and is willing to leave to get the deal he wants.
 
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CapitalsCupReality said:
That’s what we don’t know right? Are offer sheets verbally floated all the time and players shoot them down more often than not, or are they just not used?

I’d bet MANY are considered by GMs, that a decent number are even presented to agents verbally, but few make it beyond that for varying reasons, like players not wanting to leave, or the numbers don’t work, etc....
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txpd said:
Agents are going to want to hear what the market has to offer. They use that stuff wherever they can
Click to expand...


I mean this could very well be it. But you would think that if this was the case, there would be more than just 6 total offer sheets signed in the last 13 years since the the last time one was actually accepted (just a single 1 in the last 7 years). Agents would be willing to listen if teams came calling the hundreds of RFAs since then about offer sheets. Or maybe there are no teams calling.
 
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tenken00 said:
I mean this could very well be it. But you would think that if this was the case, there would be more than just 6 total offer sheets signed in the last 13 years since the the last time one was actually accepted. Agents would be willing to listen if teams came calling the hundreds of RFAs since then about offer sheets. Or maybe there are no teams calling.
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like I said, I believe MANY are considered, but the odd are stacked against you as the offering team, so those fleeting thoughts die quickly. At best you get the player you wanted, at worst you get nothing but other GMs gunning for your guys and/or refusing to work with you at all.

The tool is broken IMO.
 
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CapitalsCupReality said:
like I said, I believe MANY are considered, but the odd are stacked against you as the offering team, so those fleeting thoughts die quickly. At best you get the player you wanted, at worst you get nothing but other GMs gunning for your guys and/or refusing to work with you at all.
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Thats all I'm saying. Its a taboo. Because of perception. Because you don't want to hurt feelings, even though its a business and GMs come and go.

Its not because the offer sheet is ineffective when the original intent was to give a little bit of control back into a player's hands to decide their worth during their prime years. If no one plays because of collusion, just write it out.
 
tenken00 said:
I mean this could very well be it. But you would think that if this was the case, there would be more than just 6 total offer sheets signed in the last 13 years since the the last time one was actually accepted (just a single 1 in the last 7 years). Agents would be willing to listen if teams came calling the hundreds of RFAs since then about offer sheets. Or maybe there are no teams calling.
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RFA was designed and agreed to by the owners and nhlpa as a cost regulating feature. It was designed to hold down movement and competition for players that drive up salaries. The rules were not drawn up to make the offer sheet route enticing. Its there only as a safety valve
 
Yeah I probably got a lil carried away with the argument. I'm home now so it all feels a little arbitrary lol. It really actually doesn't bother me all too much. Or at least not particularly high on any lists.
 
tenken00 said:
Thats all I'm saying. Its a taboo. Because of perception. Because you don't want to hurt feelings, even though its a business and GMs come and go.

Its not because the offer sheet is ineffective when the original intent was to give a little bit of control back into a player's hands to decide their worth during their prime years. If no one plays because of collusion, just write it out.
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the structure of the cost is absolutely ineffective, the users don’t want to use it....it’s broken in the current collectively bargained system.
 
txpd said:
Not sure that its broken. I think it works like it was supposed to work. Rarely and only in special situations
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You think the players and the NHLPA thought they were getting a tool that nobody pretty much ever uses, that doesn't increase salaries, that doesn't encourage player movement?

I don't, but like someone else said....not that dire an issue.
 
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CapitalsCupReality said:
You think the players and the NHLPA thought they were getting a tool that nobody pretty much ever uses, that doesn't increase salaries, that doesn't encourage player movement?

I don't, but like someone else said....not that dire an issue.
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yea. i think the nhlpa knew. i think it was clear. since the lockout how many offer sheets have been signed? Its not like its ever been anything other than what it is and its not like the PA hasnt had a chance to change it.
 
Oh I completely get it’s in no way in favor of the players.

The idea of fairness prohibits me personally of thinking it’s “working”...for both parties in a collectively bargained agreement.
 
I'm glad this is still vaguely about offer sheets because I forgot to hit reply earlier. I'll paraphrase now, use tons of mixed metaphors, and fundamentally misunderstand how math works but basically the way I see it is this:

You make an offer sheet, even now in the cap crunch, and what you're actually doing is more like collapsing a wave function. If I'm someone like Tampa right now there's a ton of value in someone else assigning a value to my player and breaking the vacuum between his camp and mine. Even if the number comes out high, there's value in simply knowing that I need to move, say, 8m off the roster instead of a window that could fall between 6-10. It clarifies who is available and sets off a big chain of events, basically, but it puts the team back in the driver's seat because they know enough information to make their value assessments, find the closest thing to a net positive, and get there.

Right now everyone making Tampa squirm, whether they mean to or not, by staying put may honestly be better if your goal is to put Tampa in a pinch where they're facing penalties or truly selling for pennies on the dollar.
 
topic for discussion.. forwards lines for 2022/23.. here is my view..

Ovechkin - McMichael - Wilson
Vrana - Lapierre - Kuznetsov
Malenstyn - Backstrom - Riat
Jonsson-Fjallby - Protas - Leason
 
CapsYeti12 said:
topic for discussion.. forwards lines for 2022/23.. here is my view..

Ovechkin - McMichael - Wilson
Vrana - Lapierre - Kuznetsov
Malenstyn - Backstrom - Riat
Jonsson-Fjallby - Protas - Leason
Click to expand...

I can see a

Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Wilson
Vrana - Lapierre - McMichael

Top 6

McMichael would be better off on a wing if this is the case no? He's the one that has the lethal shot and willing to use said lethal shot out of him, Kuzy and Lap.
 
CapsYeti12 said:
topic for discussion.. forwards lines for 2022/23.. here is my view..

Ovechkin - McMichael - Wilson
Vrana - Lapierre - Kuznetsov
Malenstyn - Backstrom - Riat
Jonsson-Fjallby - Protas - Leason
Click to expand...

If we are talking about an actual projected lineup, it wont look anything like that. There will be more older veterans not apparant right now and far fewer current prospects. I wouldnt add more than one rookie per season going forward.
 
txpd said:
If we are talking about an actual projected lineup, it wont look anything like that. There will be more older veterans not apparant right now and far fewer current prospects. I wouldnt add more than one rookie per season going forward.
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Yeah, this projection has literally no player from outside the organization right now. No chance of that happening, especially if BMac is still in charge as he’s proven to be very active in filling holes via free agency or trade.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8 said:
Yeah, this projection has literally no player from outside the organization right now. No chance of that happening, especially if BMac is still in charge as he’s proven to be very active in filling holes via free agency or trade.
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Well, that lineup above is a throw in the towel/full rebuild lineup. I dont see the Caps doing that.
 
CapsYeti12 said:
topic for discussion.. forwards lines for 2022/23.. here is my view..

Ovechkin - McMichael - Wilson
Vrana - Lapierre - Kuznetsov
Malenstyn - Backstrom - Riat
Jonsson-Fjallby - Protas - Leason
Click to expand...
This team doesn’t win much. 7 rookies between now and 2yrs? No way half these guys are even ready?

edit — I see this has been debunked already. I’m late to the party
 
Also, the idea that two 1st and 2nd year players are going to be the team's top 2 centers sounds ridiculous to me. Particularly with Backstrom and Kuznetsov still on the team. Why would that be happening?

Who are the goal scorers on that team?
 
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