Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 1

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

All I see is people attacking your argument and you attacking the person. Calling the argument "shitty" or "laughable" is different than calling the person names. There's also a ton of arm chair psychologist you're trying to play with zeroing in on specific words people use and then pulling the "I think this really says a lot about you".



But hey... I don't want to speak for everyone.

 

[Corby78]

This guy must have me on ignore.

i have him on ignore and it took me a bit to figure everyone was arguing with him. Lol

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Can you answer any of my questions?

You do realize that players don't typically stay with the same team long enough for a homegrown dynasty to form, right? And that salary cap restrictions almost always break up any team's run of great top picks?

How do you propose the Caps would have been able to afford 10 first round superstars on one roster after entry level contracts expire?

My point was not about a long enough dynasty but the first bright years of Ovechkin career. 2008 to 2011 playoffs.

Objectively, imagine a team like this in 2008:

Alexander Ovechkin (LW)
Nicklas Bäckström (C)
Viktor Kozlov (RW)
Alexander Syomin (LW)
Matt Stajan (C)
David Backes (RW)
Sergei Fedorov (C)
Tomas Fleischmann (LW)
Lee Stempniak (RW)
Matt Cooke (LW)
David Steckel (C)
Ryan Reaves (RW)
Mike Green (D)
Tom Poti (D)
Andrej Sekera (D)
Keith Yandle (D)
Dustin Byfuglien (D)
Trevor Daley (D)
Cristobal Huet (G)

most of them are cheap RFA contracts at the moment. I replaced six wasted first round draft picks with adequate players from the same years. I added two good surprises from low rounds draft picks. Since 2006 Caps are drafting even better than the choices, I made.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

I would take one Brian Sutherby...

 

[Brian23]

Yanno, it's still fairly loud during the playoffs for the Caps but I feel like its been qutie a few years since it was this loud. Those Young Gun era games were truly like rock concerts all night.

 

[g00n]

My point was not about a long enough dynasty but the first bright years of Ovechkin career. 2008 to 2011 playoffs.

Objectively, imagine a team like this in 2008:

Alexander Ovechkin (LW)
Nicklas Bäckström (C)
Viktor Kozlov (RW)
Alexander Syomin (LW)
Matt Stajan (C)
David Backes (RW)
Sergei Fedorov (C)
Tomas Fleischmann (LW)
Lee Stempniak (RW)
Matt Cooke (LW)
David Steckel (C)
Ryan Reaves (RW)
Mike Green (D)
Tom Poti (D)
Andrej Sekera (D)
Keith Yandle (D)
Dustin Byfuglien (D)
Trevor Daley (D)
Cristobal Huet (G)

most of them are cheap RFA contracts at the moment. I replaced six wasted first round draft picks with adequate players from the same years. I added two good surprises from low rounds draft picks. Since 2006 Caps are drafting even better than the choices, I made.

All it seems like you're doing is cherry picking names based on hindsight while completely ignoring the realities every team faces. And again, there were good Caps teams in those years that just failed in the playoffs.

Are you suggesting you know how these replacement players would have performed in the playoffs? How much does the above team cost vs the cap? Are you saying the Caps should have drafted all those players or are you shifting the narrative to RFA moves which carry penalties and are much harder to pull off?

Nobody is following your logic because it's mostly fantasy.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

All it seems like you're doing is cherry picking names based on hindsight while completely ignoring the realities every team faces. And again, there were good Caps teams in those years that just failed in the playoffs.

Are you suggesting you know how these replacement players would have performed in the playoffs? How much does the above team cost vs the cap? Are you saying the Caps should have drafted all those players or are you shifting the narrative to RFA moves which carry penalties and are much harder to pull off?

Nobody is following your logic because it's mostly fantasy.

The names are from the nhl.com redrafts. For one wasted pick I take the player we could have, if we drafted following the redraft. From 2006 every year Caps are drafting better than the nhl redrafts. Actually, we could have even a better team.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

please read this before:


No team wastes six first round draft picks in four rebuild years

Those weren’t rebuild years bro. We were trying to win things...

 

[g00n]

The names are from the nhl.com redrafts. For one wasted pick I take the player we could have, if we drafted following the redraft. From 2006 every year Caps are drafting better than the nhl redrafts. Actually, we could have even a better team.

Total salary?

Again, this is all hindsight and wishing.

 

[Ridley Simon]

This guy must have me on ignore.

I think he’s Hivemind’s alternative personality. We have some Sybil going on.

 

[Ridley Simon]

My gosh. 2-3 pages or arguing about drafts from 15+ years ago.

dog days of Summer

 

[g00n]

The names are from the nhl.com redrafts. For one wasted pick I take the player we could have, if we drafted following the redraft. From 2006 every year Caps are drafting better than the nhl redrafts. Actually, we could have even a better team.

Also, what if every team had the advantage of getting a "do over" on their drafts? How much better would they be?

Why should the Caps be the only ones to erase their draft mistakes or misses? Every single team in the league would be better by the same amount or more, and the Caps would probably fare just as well, maybe worse, against such competition.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Those weren’t rebuild years bro. We were trying to win things...

We were bottom4 in 2007 and 2006. 2005 was lockdown and we traded Sergei Gonchar long ago befor that. We were trying in 2003 before the draft. Technicaly only 2002 draft was not a 'rebuild'.

 

[g00n]

My gosh. 2-3 pages or arguing about drafts from 15+ years ago.

dog days of Summer

Watching a 55 year old Clint Eastwood movie while typing this silliness so I guess it's just nostalgia.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Also, what if every team had the advantage of getting a "do over" on their drafts? How much better would they be?

~50% of them would be worse.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

I think he’s Hivemind’s alternative personality. We have some Sybil going on.

How about Hive and macco joint account?

 

[g00n]

~50% of them would be worse.

So every team in the league gets to remove a draft dud and replace him with someone better and half the teams get worse?

Pull the other one.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

We were bottom4 in 2007 and 2006. 2005 was lockdown and we traded Sergei Gonchar long ago befor that. We were trying in 2003 before the draft. Technicaly only 2002 draft was not a 'rebuild'.

We tried for the playoffs Jagrs 2nd season and missed. The following season GMGM traded everyone for futures.
We had one bottom out season and then won the Ovechkin lottery (I think we had the 4th best odds) then was bad for 2 more seasons with top 5 picks which got us Backstrom and Alzner. I’ve seen lots of team suck for more then 3 seasons

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

We tried for the playoffs Jagrs 2nd season and missed. The following season GMGM traded everyone for futures.
We had one bottom out season and then won the Ovechkin lottery (I think we had the 4th best odds) then was bad for 2 more seasons with top 5 picks which got us Backstrom and Alzner. I’ve seen lots of team suck for more then 3 seasons

True. Oilers wasted more of the McDavid seasons.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

How about Hive and macco joint account?

You're having much too much fun to be Macco, Macco's never met a party he didn't feel the urge to call the police on. He also doesn't have bad takes... he just refuses to actually engage in his takes in real time. It's always the "I always knew Todd Reirden wouldn't last more than two years, terrible hire" that comes right after his firing. He won't pop up again until the next bad thing happens to the team to tell us that he knew that was going to happen.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

So every team in the league gets to remove a draft dud and replace him with someone better and half the teams get worse?

Pull the other one.

It is not like you say. You have to pick better players sometimes and sometimes give up on lucky homeruns. We had two homeruns between 2002 and 2005. Green and Semin. Since 2006 we have two homeruns every year.

 

[HTFN]

Is Bowey the only weak point in my theory?

No.

Eakin, Boyd, Carrick, Sanford, none of those guys are homerun picks. Your whole point makes no sense, and you're not really explaining to anyone why it's important that they might have been able to do better like 14-16 years ago. The whole theory makes no sense, you shouldn't need a dissertation. Calling Backstrom "OK" and all of those other listed players homeruns just defies all reason.

Makes you look... what's the word... drunk?

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

We tried for the playoffs Jagrs 2nd season and missed. The following season GMGM traded everyone for futures.
We had one bottom out season and then won the Ovechkin lottery (I think we had the 4th best odds) then was bad for 2 more seasons with top 5 picks which got us Backstrom and Alzner. I’ve seen lots of team suck for more then 3 seasons

Rebuild drafts were 2003, 04, 05, 06 and 07. But 2006 and 2007 drafts were ok for the Caps. 2002, 03, 04, 05 were extremly bad, Ovechkin lottery aside. I call 2002-05 rebuild drafts, but technicaly 2002 was not.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

It is not like you say. You have to pick better players sometimes and sometimes give up on lucky homeruns. We had two homeruns between 2002 and 2005. Green and Semin. Since 2006 we have two homeruns every year.

Varly wasn’t a home run? He just shut us out and sent us home for the season...

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Rebuild drafts were 2003, 04, 05, 06 and 07. But 2006 and 2007 drafts were ok for the Caps. 2002, 03, 04, 05 were extremly bad, Ovechkin lottery aside. I call 2002-05 rebuild drafts, but technicaly 2002 was not.

You are adding a lockout season. I don’t count it but anyways...