Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 We Are The Champions Edition - Pt. 4

[g00n]

The “it’s so confusing for him, how’s he ever going to hit again” and “it went through his clavicle” talk makes us look like complete homers and incapable of objectivity. Wilson knows very well how to hit without head contact. He rose into the hit before contact. He’s purposely trying to toe a line. I have no doubt he will continue to hit and do it properly after this suspension.

Tell it to the players and coaches and many in the hockey media who all say the same thing. Who cares if anyone thinks it's homerism? They're going to call any defense of Wilson biased. We have people doing it here, too.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I used to entertain the idea of an "Ovechkin Selke thread" where I'd document his defensive exploits and incredible team play, but didn't really do it because I'm a lazy soft Russian. Maybe we should cooperate for something like this to save Willy.

To be fair, the flightless birds led the league with 19 b2b games last year.

When is anything ever really fair with them? Right down to Crybaby whining about Wilson whilst he awaited his sentence.

Justice will come in the form of another playoff win versus them this year, and then another subsequent Stanley Cup victory.

B2B that, shitbirds

 

[maacoshark]

The “it’s so confusing for him, how’s he ever going to hit again” and “it went through his clavicle” talk makes us look like complete homers and incapable of objectivity. Wilson knows very well how to hit without head contact. He rose into the hit before contact. He’s purposely trying to toe a line. I have no doubt he will continue to hit and do it properly after this suspension.

I think most people are conceding the high hit. The problem is the length of the suspension and the lack of consistency in penalizing high hits.
I have seen hits almost identical to the Wilson hit in question and no disciplinary action was taken.
I'm not completely convinced on the repeat offender excuse either. Marchand has been suspended 6 times and fined a few times and he has never gotten 20 games. There are certain guys the league refuses to discipline. Crosby could gave been disciplined a few times.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think most people are conceding the high hit. The problem is the length of the suspension and the lack of consistency in penalizing high hits.
I have seen hits almost identical to the Wilson hit in question and no disciplinary action was taken.
I'm not completely convinced on the repeat offender excuse either. Marchand has been suspended 6 times and fined a few times and he has never gotten 20 games. There are certain guys the league refuses to discipline. Crosby could gave been disciplined a few times.

Double Like

This is the crux of the matter. Simply put.

For you “Caps Fans” that are comfortable with this suspension......WAKE UP.

“Our Guy” is getting picked off in a way that is singularly UNFAIR. 20 Games for a 4th overall transgression is BS when looking at the overall scope of the DoPS. Especially when franchises like Crybaby has to weigh in to influence the edict.

It’s just poor. Period end. Very very very poor.

In all other worlds (justice or HR related), this would be “making an example of” and wouldn’t stand. Nor should it.

Fak the NHL

 

[Carlzner]

Everyone whines that Wilson is intentionally injuring people but that's such BS IMO. He's just bigger and faster than most players.

If Sundqvist doesn't point his head down it's a beautiful shoulder to chest hit. There's no way he went into that collision with the intention of breaking Sundqvist's face, he's not an idiot. (Seriously, the guy comes across as pretty smart in the interviews I've seen.)

Meanwhile, a hit like that from Big Buff... he knows what he's doing. The guys back is turned, and there's no hockey play involved. Just as "dangerous" of a hit as any headshot. But yeah, not even a look by the DoPS.

 

[Sam Spade]

Is the 'bye week' still a thing in the NHL? I assumed this was ours but is it really so that we'll have 6-day break right away and bye week later on still?

Is the schedule longer this year or do we have some insane stretches down the road?

This is not the Caps break those don't even start until after the new year.

This break was great if you ask me. Training camp is so screwy so this was like a mini camp with the actual team. I would bet the coaches love this as well. Also gets us Kempny back in the lineup Wednesday and more time for Jaskin to learn the system.

 

[Sam Spade]

“Our Guy” is getting picked off in a way that is singularly UNFAIR. 20 Games for a 4th overall transgression is BS when looking at the overall scope of the DoPS. Especially when franchises like Crybaby has to weigh in to influence the edict.

Fourth in a calendar year, second in what, 12 games played. What did you think was gonna happen here? It's too long, I don't like it, I don't think the Aston-Reese hit was even a penalty never mind a suspension, but it is what it is now.

Next one is gonna be 41 games, just like Torres' second big one, unless it happens three years down the road. Wilson's fate has been sealed, his career defined, sucks for him cause there is nothing he can do to change it.

 

[RandyHolt]

Double Like
...

Fak the NHL

Post of the day.

We aren't just screwed for 20 games. The risk of a 40+ game suspension looms on any hit he throws for the rest of his career. It's not just learning to hit. The DOPS is wildly inconsistent when reviewing hits, and will have a short leash on him regardless. They won't blame the victim for failing to protect themselves if it involves Tom Wilson.

Edit - in fact, a player doing nothing at all to protect themselves, is used against Tom in the lame duck videos they spend hours creating, which is nothing more than the slowest replays possible, from every angle. Their argument, see, he was a fixed target thus Tom is guilty. Maybe Tom was lining up his hit in anticipation of a player actually defending themselves.

 

[g00n]

Fourth in a calendar year, second in what, 12 games played. What did you think was gonna happen here? It's too long, I don't like it, I don't think the Aston-Reese hit was even a penalty never mind a suspension, but it is what it is now.

Next one is gonna be 41 games, just like Torres' second big one, unless it happens three years down the road. Wilson's fate has been sealed, his career defined, sucks for him cause there is nothing he can do to change it.

Do you have confetti from the Cup parade in your ears, man? Why are you parroting the DOPS line? The number and frequency of suspensions is part of what's unfair. Citing them as proof that this suspension is fair is circular logic.

 

[g00n]

Post of the day.

We aren't just screwed for 20 games. The risk of a 40+ game suspension looms on any hit he throws for the rest of his career. It's not just learning to hit. The DOPS is wildly inconsistent when reviewing hits, and will have a short leash on him regardless. They won't blame the victim for failing to protect themselves if it involves Tom Wilson.

Tom Wilson is a problem for the league. The way he plays--at the edge of the rules--forces their hand when it comes to the double edged sword of physicality and violence in the sport. It's a marketing draw that appeals to many fans but in the CTE era it also turns some people off while endangering other players.

The fact that he's hitting so hard that he smashes through the body and impacts the head is not something well accounted for in the league rules OR the economic model of the sport, so they have to make a decision: rebrand the sport with less hitting and new rules, or suspend Tom Wilson until he stops. Of course they take the easiest, cheapest option.

The NHLPA is contractually obligated (I believe) to appeal on TW's behalf due to the financial interests of current and future players but there's also a catch 22 involving the health of the players receiving such hits. So again, easiest solution is to just appeal and hope TW changes.

This is all obvious to most here. So what do? If nobody in a position of power advocates for TW then he's either going to have to change his hitting in some way that eliminates any chance of suspension or just keep on truckin' and suffer the consequences. The main complaint is that he and the Caps have repeatedly discussed this with the league and the "line" of acceptability keeps moving, so that injury to the other player is apparently the new measuring stick of legality.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Everyone whines that Wilson is intentionally injuring people but that's such BS IMO. He's just bigger and faster than most players.

If Sundqvist doesn't point his head down it's a beautiful shoulder to chest hit. There's no way he went into that collision with the intention of breaking Sundqvist's face, he's not an idiot. (Seriously, the guy comes across as pretty smart in the interviews I've seen.)

Meanwhile, a hit like that from Big Buff... he knows what he's doing. The guys back is turned, and there's no hockey play involved. Just as "dangerous" of a hit as any headshot. But yeah, not even a look by the DoPS.

Well said, I completely agree.

 

[Sam Spade]

Do you have confetti from the Cup parade in your ears, man? Why are you parroting the DOPS line? The number and frequency of suspensions is part of what's unfair. Citing them as proof that this suspension is fair is circular logic.

Never said the suspension was fair, I said he has them NOW and there is no going back for Wilson.

 

[maacoshark]

Do you have confetti from the Cup parade in your ears, man? Why are you parroting the DOPS line? The number and frequency of suspensions is part of what's unfair. Citing them as proof that this suspension is fair is circular logic.

I agree that the number of suspensions is unfair. A couple of his suspensions were very questionable.
Especially when see similar hits that go unpenalized.
Wilson is without doubt targeted by the NHL. At this point it doesnt matter whether the hit is clean or not, they will go after him. Players whining about it doesnt help either.
I'm completely disgusted that Crosby commented on Wilson. Something has to be done about Wilson but Crosby can hack guys fingers off, spear them in the groin and slewfooting guys.
I'd love to see Wilson demolish Crosby

 

[maacoshark]

Tom Wilson is a problem for the league. The way he plays--at the edge of the rules--forces their hand when it comes to the double edged sword of physicality and violence in the sport. It's a marketing draw that appeals to many fans but in the CTE era it also turns some people off while endangering other players.

The fact that he's hitting so hard that he smashes through the body and impacts the head is not something well accounted for in the league rules OR the economic model of the sport, so they have to make a decision: rebrand the sport with less hitting and new rules, or suspend Tom Wilson until he stops. Of course they take the easiest, cheapest option.

The NHLPA is contractually obligated (I believe) to appeal on TW's behalf due to the financial interests of current and future players but there's also a catch 22 involving the health of the players receiving such hits. So again, easiest solution is to just appeal and hope TW changes.

This is all obvious to most here. So what do? If nobody in a position of power advocates for TW then he's either going to have to change his hitting in some way that eliminates any chance of suspension or just keep on truckin' and suffer the consequences. The main complaint is that he and the Caps have repeatedly discussed this with the league and the "line" of acceptability keeps moving, so that injury to the other player is apparently the new measuring stick of legality.

I think you are right about the line of acceptaility moving. And the league seems to using Wilson as an example.
It is no longer about the hit itself. It is about injury and the energy out into the hit.
Ive actually heards guy (Bob McKenzie being one of them) saying that when Wilson goes for a hit he could hold up and not destroy the guy. That tells me that they dont like how hard he is hitting guys. If Wilson held up on his hits it would kind of defeat the purpose. It sounds like a pretty weak argument.
I'd really like to know their reasoning for calling one hit a suspension and an identical hit within the rules.
Whatever happens Wilson is a marked man and has to change his game. Is that going to change his effectiveness?

 

[RandyHolt]

It is going to change his effectiveness. It has to, unless the rest of the leagues players are not paying attention. Suddenly, they can fear him significantly less, if not entirely.

One my favorite plays in hockey is the voluntary "here you take it, just don't hit me" turnovers he generates by closing in on hapless defensemen. I don't expect to see that anytime soon, unless he learns to hit with his ass.

 

[g00n]

The only way it doesn't affect his game is if there is a very clearly defined, publicly known line for him to follow and he STILL blows guys up legally, which keeps the intimidation factor intact. If that's gone then he's essentially a fast grinder with 15-20G upside who fights.

 

[Corby78]

Changing topics, anyone else tired of hearing about how we didn’t mention Trotz on opening night. First it’s annoying because we didn’t mention beagle or grubs as far as I can remeber either, and second it’s annoying because it’s usually coming from people who know nothing of hockey or the caps. Most of these people feel Trotz is the reason we won. Just frustrating to me

 

[RandyHolt]

The thing I fear with Tom, is players can now easy troll tom by just looking downward on approach, say at the puck. Have their head in position to stop him dead in his tracks. Tom will have to pull up. He just cannot risk hitting an opponent in the head right now. Maybe he can safely hit the Chara's of the league, that's about it.

He is not far away from losing his entire 5M salary. 1 or 2 questionable hits is all that it will take. I am not sure I can ever recall a player more neutered... maybe Cooke or Torres I suppose.

That Aston hit really set a bad precedent. A player properly prepared/squaring up to hit Tom, still equals a suspension for Tom. I knew Tom was in a tough spot after that one. The former players etc coming to his defense, sadly rang hollow with the powers that be.

 

[kicksavedave]

Changing topics, anyone else tired of hearing about how we didn’t mention Trotz on opening night. First it’s annoying because we didn’t mention beagle or grubs as far as I can remeber either, and second it’s annoying because it’s usually coming from people who know nothing of hockey or the caps. Most of these people feel Trotz is the reason we won. Just frustrating to me

There's also this thing that Trotz quit, he didn't want to fulfill his contract, he didn't want to be here. So why should we drop praise on him, this was about the Capitals, not the "people who didn't want to be Capitals". IOW, I agree with you.

 

[third man in]

The only way it doesn't affect his game is if there is a very clearly defined, publicly known line for him to follow and he STILL blows guys up legally, which keeps the intimidation factor intact. If that's gone then he's essentially a fast grinder with 15-20G upside who fights.

It also affects the value of his contract. Him being a unique, one of a kind type player gave him extra value. A neutered Wilson isn't worth 5.25mil, maybe a mil less. Hopefully he'll adjust his hitting slightly and still be as valuable.

 

[kicksavedave]

The thing I fear with Tom, is players can now easy troll tom by just looking downward on approach, say at the puck. Have their head in position to stop him dead in his tracks. Tom will have to pull up. He just cannot risk hitting an opponent in the head right now. Maybe he can safely hit the Chara's of the league, that's about it.

He is not far away from losing his entire 5M salary. 1 or 2 questionable hits is all that it will take. I am not sure I can ever recall a player more neutered... maybe Cooke or Torres I suppose.

That Aston hit really set a bad precedent. A player properly prepared/squaring up to hit Tom, still equals a suspension for Tom. I knew Tom was in a tough spot after that one. The former players etc coming to his defense, sadly rang hollow with the powers that be.

This basically gets to the crux of the problem. TW hits a shoulder, breaks the collarbone and the collision continues into the head, and they say he was targeting the head. If he aims for the chest, a player drops his head (looking for the puck?) and them BAM, TW is gone for 40 plus.

 

[txpd]

Wilson will remain Wilson. He will make better decisions as his experience grows. For instance, there is no reason to blow a guy up like that in the final preseason game. It was a unnecessary risk that he will learn to eliminate from his game. Someone said that the league neutered Ovechkin. That's not true. Ov had to learn when to back off of hits. After being neutered he cut years off of Dan Girardi's and Marc Staal's careers for having to play against him all those playoff games. He still hits a lot. He still hits hard. He just doesn't hit guys like he did Campbell and Heward anymore. So will Wilson

 

[Ridley Simon]

Fourth in a calendar year, second in what, 12 games played. What did you think was gonna happen here? It's too long, I don't like it, I don't think the Aston-Reese hit was even a penalty never mind a suspension, but it is what it is now.

Next one is gonna be 41 games, just like Torres' second big one, unless it happens three years down the road. Wilson's fate has been sealed, his career defined, sucks for him cause there is nothing he can do to change it.

There are some on here that are "just fine" (dare I say.....happy??) with the 20 games. So, maybe my post wasnt directed at Mr Sam Spade?

 

[kicksavedave]

Wilson will remain Wilson. He will make better decisions as his experience grows. For instance, there is no reason to blow a guy up like that in the final preseason game. It was a unnecessary risk that he will learn to eliminate from his game. Someone said that the league neutered Ovechkin. That's not true. Ov had to learn when to back off of hits. After being neutered he cut years off of Dan Girardi's and Marc Staal's careers for having to play against him all those playoff games. He still hits a lot. He still hits hard. He just doesn't hit guys like he did Campbell and Heward anymore. So will Wilson

Not sure about my memory anymore but weren't those Ovi hits "from behind" and/or into the boards, vs pure headshots? I feel like the lesson Ovi had to learn (which he clearly did) and the lesson TW has to learn (which he clearly hasn't yet) are not the same when looked at the speed of the game. I dunno, TW can learn to get this right but you're right, it was dumb as hell for him to do that in preseason. He needs to be much, much, smarter, at game speed.

 

[RandyHolt]

Young players are well served to risk nothing for an entire year after a suspension.

Tom spaced and forgot, or he was not counseled properly by our coaches, who now should remind him for at least the next few months. Remind him before every period. USE YOUR ASS to hit, not your shoulder.