OT: Capitals Cinema Club: TV and Movies

Neil Racki

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May 2, 2018
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I read LOTR almost 3 times, tried to read the Similarion
Read first 5 book or so of Potter

Tolkien > Rowlings in writing but both arent great "authors" or writers imo. They imagined and then put to paper these huge imaginative awesome worlds .. that was their magic. Not their actual writing ability. LOTR is an overly detailed death-by-minut description writing. Rowlings was all over the place.

Authors/writers are Stephen King, Palahniuk, Ellis, grisham

Tolkien/Rowlings is to writing what George Lucas is to movie directing
 
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ChaosLord

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Jan 16, 2010
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I read LOTR almost 3 times, tried to read the Similarion
Read first 5 book or so of Potter

Tolkien > Rowlings in writing but both arent great "authors" or writers imo. They imagined and then put to paper these huge imaginative awesome worlds .. that was their magic. Not their actual writing ability. LOTR is an overly detailed death-by-minut description writing. Rowlings was all over the place.

Authors/writers are Stephen King, Palahniuk, Ellis, grisham

Tolkien/Rowlings is to writing what George Lucas is to movie directing

You can criticize the TV adaptation of GOT all you want, but peak GRRM was a hell of a writer. I think I read the first 4 GOT books over the course of a single week -- I couldn't put them down. Hallmark of a great writer.
 
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Hivemind

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I really enjoy Tolkien's prose, far more than the other authors mentioned on this page. He has some real gems worked in through-out The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I'd definitely take him over volume-writers like Grisham or even King, and his prose is leaps and bounds better than Pahlaniuk (whos appeal is much more his philosophies and musings on life than his ability to write about them). And as much as I liked GoT, I never could find myself engrossed in GRRM's writing that much. You get three-page descriptions of meals that drag on (and occasionally bowel movements by rivers) and other things that take me out of it. Tolkien can be guilty of long-winded sections as well (not to mention his poetry insertions), but they're typically more on topic than GRRM's.

It's also important to remember that The Silmarillion isn't finished prose. It's collected drafts and notes that have been stitched together into a history.
 
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Jags

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May 5, 2016
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Tolkien > Rowlings in writing but both arent great "authors" or writers imo. They imagined and then put to paper these huge imaginative awesome worlds .. that was their magic. Not their actual writing ability. LOTR is an overly detailed death-by-minut description writing. Rowlings was all over the place.

I see where you're coming from, but these are subjective takes. Creating a dazzling world is certainly a hallmark of great writing. Rowling was also pretty strong with character and pretty exceptional at quirky little details that added a playfulness to her world. Tolkien's race/faction/class structures and balance were vivid and important to the narrative, as was the importance of the history of his world and people.

GRRM, Herbert, and Asimov had similar strengths. And to one level or another, most of the writers who truly excel in this area tend to be a little less fixated on characterization and dialogue. Then there's the other way around -- character over setting/world -- where you have writers like Austen, Ishiguro, King, Rendell, Tolstoy, etc.

And even among those extremes you have extreme variation. If Rowling wrote GoT Arya's wolf would have been a ferret named Slinkleboom. And if GRRM wrote Harry Potter you'd get the occasional 2-page scene of Ron taking a dump. His world is gritty and lived-in where hers is so perfectly ornate that it sometimes feels like it'd evaporate if you touched it wrong.

There's also just being a painstakingly good writer of prose. In terms of pure technique, Nabokov's work might be the best I've ever read. But while there's a lot of great stuff there, none would make my top 10 favorite books. The text itself is magical though. Twain, Achebe, Bronte, Shelley, Cervantes... Similar talents for sure. Their stuff is just a pleasure to read because the prose is so good. (And pick the Bronte sister of you choice.)

Then there's the writers who influenced generations of writing. Hemingway can be polarizing, but there's no question he's near the top of that list. Flaubert might be the only challenger. And when style is analyzed as its own thing, you get Proust, Defoe, and Melville.

Writers excel in a bunch of wildly different categories, and world building is equal to any other. Sometimes a thinly-drawn world is crucial and sometimes it's the foundation for every ounce of a story's impact. And sometimes you can do both -- build a great world and tell a great story -- without writing 500,000 words. Matheson did both in I Am Legend, also created the modern vampire and maybe accidentally created zombie fiction, in about 25,000 words. Feel how you will about the book but that's a shitload of quality per word.

I went the Tolstoy route with this post. My apologies for that. TL;DR: World building is as important as most other things, and those writers aren't limited to that one particular strength. There's a reason their work mesmerized generations...
 

Neil Racki

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May 2, 2018
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if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that Cormac McCarthy needs to learn how to use punctuation
Requested my library to receive a copy of Blood Meridian for me a few weeks ago. Never read anything from him yet, heard it can get descriptively gruesome.
 

HTFN

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Feb 8, 2009
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Requested my library to receive a copy of Blood Meridian for me a few weeks ago. Never read anything from him yet, heard it can get descriptively gruesome.
I bought No Country For Old Men at an airport, hadn't seen the movie yet but heard enough to know there was a reason this book was suddenly in the airport bookstore with a brand new cover and stickers about it being a movie now, and I had a cross-country flight to get through so I figured "alright f*** it".

That thing I just did there? Where I used those quotation marks? He doesn't f***ing do that and it drives me completely crazy. This guy just punctuates things however the hell he wants, runs entire dialogue scenes with no quotation marks, and kind of just... no-rules diary entries his way through the book. Makes everything so f***ing confusing I eventually just gave up and watched the movie.

It's descriptive, it seems like it's written by a man who knows his world, and a lot of the prose works but he is just not polite to casual readers. It's one of the only properties I can think of where shifting to film made all of it work better than the book because of the craft of the writer. Like, all of the body is there, it's just written so much like a big film treatment with no refinement.
 
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ChaosLord

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Jan 16, 2010
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I see where you're coming from, but these are subjective takes. Creating a dazzling world is certainly a hallmark of great writing. Rowling was also pretty strong with character and pretty exceptional at quirky little details that added a playfulness to her world. Tolkien's race/faction/class structures and balance were vivid and important to the narrative, as was the importance of the history of his world and people.

GRRM, Herbert, and Asimov had similar strengths. And to one level or another, most of the writers who truly excel in this area tend to be a little less fixated on characterization and dialogue. Then there's the other way around -- character over setting/world -- where you have writers like Austen, Ishiguro, King, Rendell, Tolstoy, etc.

And even among those extremes you have extreme variation. If Rowling wrote GoT Arya's wolf would have been a ferret named Slinkleboom. And if GRRM wrote Harry Potter you'd get the occasional 2-page scene of Ron taking a dump. His world is gritty and lived-in where hers is so perfectly ornate that it sometimes feels like it'd evaporate if you touched it wrong.

There's also just being a painstakingly good writer of prose. In terms of pure technique, Nabokov's work might be the best I've ever read. But while there's a lot of great stuff there, none would make my top 10 favorite books. The text itself is magical though. Twain, Achebe, Bronte, Shelley, Cervantes... Similar talents for sure. Their stuff is just a pleasure to read because the prose is so good. (And pick the Bronte sister of you choice.)

Then there's the writers who influenced generations of writing. Hemingway can be polarizing, but there's no question he's near the top of that list. Flaubert might be the only challenger. And when style is analyzed as its own thing, you get Proust, Defoe, and Melville.

Writers excel in a bunch of wildly different categories, and world building is equal to any other. Sometimes a thinly-drawn world is crucial and sometimes it's the foundation for every ounce of a story's impact. And sometimes you can do both -- build a great world and tell a great story -- without writing 500,000 words. Matheson did both in I Am Legend, also created the modern vampire and maybe accidentally created zombie fiction, in about 25,000 words. Feel how you will about the book but that's a shitload of quality per word.

I went the Tolstoy route with this post. My apologies for that. TL;DR: World building is as important as most other things, and those writers aren't limited to that one particular strength. There's a reason their work mesmerized generations...

I'm surprised you didn't mention the best writer of them all, Dostoevsky. Dude was so talented that, after blowing all his money on booze, gambling and women, he would simply head back to his "Dacha" and pump out another brilliant work. And then the process would repeat itself. The Russian writer led a wild and dissolute life, as a lot of brilliant artists do.
 
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usiel

Where wolf’s ears are, wolf’s teeth are near.
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Requested my library to receive a copy of Blood Meridian for me a few weeks ago. Never read anything from him yet, heard it can get descriptively gruesome.
That one is a rough read.

Joe Abercrombie is a decent fantasy author though his world building is fair he creates some juicy quotable quotes for his characters that jump out.
 
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ChaosLord

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Jan 16, 2010
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I think everyone did a double take when they saw "30 years". I was expecting 20 years tops. Considering his age, 30 is pretty much a life sentence.
 

PlushMinus

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(BTW that' was a reference to the Amber Heard trial. That lawsuit pretty much wiped her out
financially -- killed her career and confiscated her existing assets).
Couldn't have happened to a nicer person. I hope to never see or hear about her again.
 

ChaosLord

Registered User
Jan 16, 2010
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I just finished watching Spiderman: Across the Spider-Verse. One question: why does Hollywood continue to give Lord and Miller so much money? I'm probably getting old, but, I just don't get them or their movies. "Across" is an incoherent mess -- a gorgeous, lavishly expensive incoherent mess -- but a mess nonetheless.
 
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Neil Racki

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May 2, 2018
5,311
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Baltimore-ish
A few pages back i mentioned i requested a book Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy from my Howard County library. its been like a month plus. Walked up to it yesterday to check in thinking I missed some text alert that it was ready.

8.

There are 8 people ahead of me for this book I was told.

I went to find another book on shelf ... zero books from Elmore Leonard, zero books from Brett Easton Ellis and only copies of Cormac's new releases.

My huge, beautiful, well funded public library in one of the wealthiest counties in America .. and I cant find a decent read from well known writers?

Odd.
 

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