Confirmed with Link: Canucks trade Dickinson & 2nd (2024) to Chicago for Riley Stillman

[andora]

40% of all 2nd rounders play 100+ games? That sounds high to me.

It is

"So from the total of 2,100 draft selections in my sample, 598 players played at least 100 games in the NHL. Next, I decided to see on which round those 598 players were drafted."

From 2020

NHL Draft Pick Probabilities

Whenever an NHL draft is approaching, the excitement level and hype around the players go through the roof. It’s an exciting time for sure but it seems like most people don’t have realistic expectations when it comes to the draft. To help with that, I decided to

dobberprospects.com

 

[Siludin]

Did they have to make this move before the roster deadline and stay compliant, before they could add someone to LTIR? I know you can be over the cap by 10% until you have to be compliant at season start, and you can only start accumulating LTIR space AFTER this point, so I think they had to make the cap work with Ferland included before being able to reclaim that space. Makes sense that they would have been forced to make an unfavorable move all of a sudden?

 

[credulous]

What were they and how would that have affected the present day?

i don't want to rehash the offseason but the canucks had 16 mil in cap space prior to resigning boeser and there's a number of players on the team that could have been moved for an actual return or minimal cost

i will also point out that mike reilly and phillipe myers make only slightly more than mikheyev. look at this actually decent nhl defense:

hughes p. myers
oel dermott
reilly t. myers

 

[racerjoe]

If this is good or bad is debatable, and probably depends what you are looking for. I think and hope some of this is thinking about next year, and opening up cap for that season.

I do think the price paid is very good. I know it seems high, but that is just the current market.

 

[andora]

i don't want to rehash the offseason but the canucks had 16 mil in cap space prior to resigning boeser and there's a number of players on the team that could have been moved for an actual return or minimal cost

i will also point out that mike reilly and phillipe myers make only slightly more than mikheyev. look at this actually decent nhl defense:

hughes p. myers
oel dermott
reilly t. myers

Oh i interpreted it wrong.. alternatives i get it

But no offense that defence is barf as well.

 

[credulous]

Oh i interpreted it wrong.. alternatives i get it

But no offense that defence is barf as well.

it's definitely better than one with any 3 of poolman, stillman, schenn and burroughs

 

[andora]

it's definitely better than one with any 3 of poolman, stillman, schenn and burroughs

Really? Mike reilly?.. who also has another year left at 3 or so million.. whatever hes at?

You just added another dickinson siatuation that costs more

 

[m9]

i don't want to rehash the offseason but the canucks had 16 mil in cap space prior to resigning boeser and there's a number of players on the team that could have been moved for an actual return or minimal cost

Yup. Don't have much sympathy for management making the choice to push right against the cap and then needing to pay their way out of it. No-plan plan in full effect.

 

[credulous]

Yup. Don't have much sympathy for management making the choice to push right against the cap and then needing to pay their way out of it. No-plan plan in full effect.

i think the mikheyev contract is gonna end up causing no end of problems for this team over the next 4 seasons. seems ridiculous to me to gamble on him being a legit top 6 winger when he's almost 28 and hasn't put up a single season that justifies that contract

 

[racerjoe]

i think the mikheyev contract is gonna end up causing no end of problems for this team over the next 4 seasons. seems ridiculous to me to gamble on him being a legit top 6 winger when he's almost 28 and hasn't put up a single season that justifies that contract

If we are just talking single season I would argue last season, but I also don't think he was signed to be a flat out top 6 guy. I think he is worth it if he is like Hansen. If he isn't like a Hansen its a bad signing IMO.

 

[credulous]

If we are just talking single season I would argue last season, but I also don't think he was signed to be a flat out top 6 guy. I think he is worth it if he is like Hansen. If he isn't like a Hansen its a bad signing IMO.

he needs to be significantly better than hansen for 19 mil over 4 years. hansen topped out at 2.5 mil a year and was out of the league before his 31st birthday

if mikheyev isn't consistently in the top 6 and a top pker he makes far too much money

 

[racerjoe]

he needs to be significantly better than hansen for 19 mil over 4 years. hansen topped out at 2.5 mil a year and was out of the league before his 31st birthday

if mikheyev isn't consistently in the top 6 and a top pker he makes far too much money

He does cost more than Hansen, who was on a great deal. Its only %1 of the cap difference.

I would call Hansen a high value deal at his performance, and if Illya performes similar he would be a fair deal.

 

[credulous]

He does cost more than Hansen, who was on a great deal. Its only %1 of the cap difference.

I would call Hansen a high value deal at his performance, and if Illya performes similar he would be a fair deal.

hansen was about six months older than mikheyev at the time his contract kicked in and made 3.6% of the cap (2.5 / 69). mikheyev makes 5.7% (4.75 / 82.5)

hansen outperformed his contract the first two years but underperformed it the last two

 

[Green Blank Stare]

I've been a proponent of using picks to dump the dead weight on this roster. That being said, I'm not sure about this one. My initial reaction, like others, is I would have rather seen this take Poolman out the door before Dickinson.

 

[M2Beezy]

Great to get away from one of Bennings last painfully unnecessary mistakes but the 2nd round pick seems kinda high. I looked at the Chicago subforum and ALL of their fans love the trade. I understand there can be win win trades but I feel this is a slam dunk for Chicago with minimal relief for the Canucks to justify this trade

Then again, perhaps the weaponizing of capspace that the previous regime was so blatantly against, has become so significant and valuable that Alvin thought this was absolutely necessary

 

[mathonwy]

Great to get away from one of Bennings last painfully unnecessary mistakes but the 2nd round pick seems kinda high. I looked at the Chicago subforum and ALL of their fans love the trade. I understand there can be win win trades but I feel this is a slam dunk for Chicago with minimal relief for the Canucks to justify this trade

Then again, perhaps the weaponizing of capspace that the previous regime was so blatantly against, has become so significant and valuable that Alvin thought this was absolutely necessary

Not having to worry about giving dicki ice time makes the coach's life much easier.

 

[vancityluongo]

good move in principle, decent execution (pick is fair), just not sure what they see in stillman and why that was the positional need targeted (a similar value bottom-6 forward to replace Dickinson would have made more sense than another LD) but generally feels like a tidy bit of work to clear up space

 

[Kryten]

40% of all 2nd rounders play 100+ games? That sounds high to me.

Yes the real number is between ours like @andora showed. But from 2010-2016 its 43%, 46 after this season. 2017-now is too early

 

[andora]

Yes the real number is between ours like @andora showed. But from 2010-2016 its 43%, 46 after this season. 2017-now is too early

Thank you for more detail

Maybe if i have time i would like to see the % of impact players and see the %.. impact meaning top 4 d or top 9 forward or starter..

I think once a proper system is in place both drafting and developing 2nd rounds are overrated.. or atleast can be.

A quick look at 3 drafts, 10 11 12

10 - 6
11 - 7
12 - 6

Not gonna lie.. love seeing yakupov 1st overall for the coilers hehe

 

[Tomatoes11]

Thank you for more detail

Maybe if i have time i would like to see the % of impact players and see the %.. impact meaning top 4 d or top 9 forward or starter..

I think once a proper system is in place both drafting and developing 2nd rounds are overrated.. or atleast can be.

A quick look at 3 drafts, 10 11 12

10 - 6
11 - 7
12 - 6

Not gonna lie.. love seeing yakupov 1st overall for the coilers hehe

It’s never overrated to have good habits. The best bargain contracts are universally homegrown ones. It’s never a bad habit to you know, have your second highest pick every year even if a lot bust out. It’s a huge swing to your fortunes when one hits. Giving up super high picks for crap like Stillman just to attempt to get swept in the first round never moves the needle.

 

[Steamer]

Maybe worse than Benning (and I hated him as a GM). This regime has a Rachael Doerrie lawsuit now (per her mother saying it’s now a legal matter and she couldn’t speak on it) and hired Dale Tallon who was all but complicit with sexual abuse in chicago etc. I know the Francesco Aquilini beating his kids and not paying child support allegation / JV rape case isn’t this regimes fault but all in all for a franchise that has won f*** all in a half century , my god it’s a terrible look.

How exactly was Dale Talon "all but complicit" whatever that means, in the Chicago situation? He was fired before the Stanley Cup run in which Aldrich assaulted Beach. Try and stick to actual facts. All but complicit is a completely nonsensical description. You are either complicit or not.

 

[Steamer]

the LMath doesn’t work like that. You still need to calculate the NET cost. With Dickenson out it means someone else is in his spot. Whoever that is, deduct that from 2.6M. That’s your savings. That little cap savings to lose a 2nd rounder is absolutely not worth it for where this team is at. Cupboards are less than bare.

Except if you aren't planning on signing anyone, instead you replace him with someone already signed like Lazar or someone making League Minimum.

 

[Steamer]

It stinks pure and simple. A legacy of Benning and a strong indicator of what direction the current regime is going in and you can see the logic in it from their point of view. A second is way too much to pay even if it is the going rate. Outside of Demko and possibly Hogs, the Canucks have squat from any of the rounds past the first. Maybe Rathbone, but otherwise meh for the moment, and they have given away picks constantly. Ditto with this trade. This team lives and dies long term on the performance of Demko and Petey. They management obviously feels that Petey will continue to get better after his injury setback. The Miller signing said they are going all in. This deal portends a dangerous path of trading picks to free up cap space to sign the requisite FA's. But it also means they might be willing to sacrifice big long term for short term gain. Like a major move at the trade deadline. I have given up hope of ever seeing the team win the Cup in my lifetime. After 52 years they seem a decade or more away from being good enough if this is management path. Yes strong down the middle with versatile wingers and a puck moving D-Man. But we all know the story on most of the D. Realistically the best they will do in FA is more OEL's on D. It will be fun to watch and who knows what Demko can steal but does this management team have a plan for improving the D? I'm old school, get 3 Blue chip players and a money goalie or young goalie on a roll. The stronger down the middle the better. But you can never just score your way to the Cup. Teams that didn't have the 3 BC players but won, were just so strong in every position. I don't see that with the Canucks in the next four to five years.

 

[kanucks25]

i don't want to rehash the offseason but the canucks had 16 mil in cap space prior to resigning boeser and there's a number of players on the team that could have been moved for an actual return or minimal cost

i will also point out that mike reilly and phillipe myers make only slightly more than mikheyev. look at this actually decent nhl defense:

hughes p. myers
oel dermott
reilly t. myers

I get your point about using cap elsewhere or making moves earlier in the offseason but that is not a "decent" NHL defense, it's trash just like our current group but just made up of different pieces of garbage lol.

The reason why different moves or moves for that RD we so desperately need were not made may simply be that there was nobody out there that was available at a palatable price. Guys like P. Myers, Mike Reilly, Valimaki, whoever don't move the needle whatsoever.

 

[Cancuks]

I get your point about using cap elsewhere or making moves earlier in the offseason but that is not a "decent" NHL defense, it's trash just like our current group but just made up of different pieces of garbage lol.

The reason why different moves or moves for that RD we so desperately need were not made may simply be that there was nobody out there that was available at a palatable price. Guys like P. Myers, Mike Reilly, Valimaki, whoever don't move the needle whatsoever.

It's strange how Myers is good enough for the back to back Cup winners but not good enough to play on a team with one of the worst right side defense in the league. Also, why not throw Dickinson on waivers, see if anyone bites and then demote him to save cap space and keep your 2nd round pick? Probably could have gotten Stillman for free if they wanted him badly.