Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV)

Thoughts on the contract?


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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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What will it take for you to admit that the Myers signing was a mistake?

Im sure you are able to now admit that Loui Eriksson signing was a mistake and set us back long term, right?

edit. Activity for the sake of activity is not constructive.
If Myers hits over 30+ points...If he improves our PP...and our D improves..thats a bonus..(also he's not going to saddled with Kulikov).

Where did I ever say that that Louie Eriksson was a good signing..? ...please find me a quote where I defended that signing..I'll hold you to that one...(classic Puckmunchkin...as usual, he will gloss over that one).

Activity for" sake" of activity..?..what are you bleating about?...The Canucks D didn't need an upgrade?...you would prefer Schenn and Hutton..?
 

PuckMunchkin

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Its not nonsense at all...you (and Puckmunchkin) are both whining that Myers is overpaid (which has been conceded, that he is ..by maybe $1M),.... and barking out ridiculous comments like 'I would rather have Karlsson"..problem is,..in UFA..the player makes the choice of his destination(it takes two)..so thats a non starter off of the bat..

Or Barrie and Ristolainen..those acquisitions will hurt a lot more (goodbye Podkolzin) than than the extra $1M you're paying Myers

We are not whining. We are trying to get you to understand what a bad deal it is for us.

If Myers hits over 30+ points...If he improves our PP...and our D improves..thats a bonus..(also he's not going to saddled with Kulikov).

So if he doesnt hit 30 points and isnt on the PP you will admit that we were right?

Where did I ever say that that Louie Eriksson was a good signing..? ...please find me a quote where I defended that signing..I'll hold you to that one...(classic Puckmunchkin...as usual, he will gloss over that one).

You misunderstand. I assumed Eriksson is common ground for us and just wanted to establish that even you wont side with Benning on Eriksson.

Activity for" sake" of activity..?..what are you bleating about?...The Canucks D didn't need an upgrade?...you would prefer Schenn and Hutton..?

If you agree that the Canucks are not able to compete for the cup next year, than you should also understand that nothing is forcing us to overpay for borderline 2nd pairing Dmen. We are not exactly priming for a cup run.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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1. Ok, if I understand your point, when players are out of the lineup it is good to have other players.

Last season when Edler and Tanev were out it was good that there was somebody-in that case Ben Hutton-to step forward and play big minutes. That doesn't make that horrible contract that Hutton got at the end of his entry level contract a good one.

Now you're referring to "depth" that costs $6 million per season. In a world where cap space is a limited resource, spending that on depth would be a waste of a valuable resource that could have been used to get more and better depth.

A $ 6 million player needs to be more than depth to be a worthwhile investment. I say that not to claim that Myers is just depth (he's more than that) but to make the point that justifying his signing as increasing team depth is a fallacy.

2. Opinions on Myers' worth vary greatly.

Some say he's a defensive slug and worth little.

Some say he's an offensive juggernaut and # 1 defenceman.

I think he's good offensively, only fair defensively and that on balance his value is that of a 2nd pair guy. If he was being paid 2nd pair money for the next three seasons I wouldn't criticize the signing.

Myers is certainly a step up from some of the other defensive acquisitions the team has made through the years and imo there's nothing bad with having Myers on the team. He's likely to do some good things, be the hero occasionally, make mediocre defensive decisions that largely go unnoticed and function at a reasonable level. The issue isn't likely to be whether we got a slug but whether the Canucks have, again, handed out a contract for too long and too much money.

Paying him $6 million values him at the level of his offence contributions and pretty much ignores his mediocre defensive play. As to term, paying him that for five seasons, until he reaches the age of 34, is to take a risk that seems unwise to me.

My estimate of the difference between his contract and the value he brings to the team would be higher than yours even without taking into account the risk of age-related decline before the end of the contract.
So..If you were the GM..how would you have improved the Canucks D this off season..?...Whats the solution?
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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We are not whining. We are trying to get you to understand what a bad deal it is for us.
You dont like the deal..I dont mind it.. (I dont love it)....Complaining without coming up with a solution, or a decent option (which you still haven't yet) is whining..

Still waiting for you to demonstrate that I was defending the LE signing.....
 

timw33

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So..If you were the GM..how would you have improved the Canucks D this off season..?...Whats the solution?

Again, we've mentioned many of these: UFA Heed, UFA Nemeth, TRADE Miller, TRADE Jokiharju TRADE Subban TRADE De Haan. No issues with the Benn short-term low risk deal.

Either go value short term FA route with upside, or go out there and grab any one of the good options that were available for relatively cheap. Or a mix of both.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Again, we've mentioned many of these: UFA Heed, UFA Nemeth, TRADE Miller, TRADE Jokiharju TRADE Subban TRADE De Haan. No issues with the Benn short-term low risk deal.

Either go value short term FA route with upside, or go out there and grab any one of the good options that were available for relatively cheap. Or a mix of both.
Clearly,you're not aware of the needs on the Canucks D.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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You dont like the deal..I dont mind it.. (I dont love it)....Complaining without coming up with a solution, or a decent option (which you still haven't yet) is whining..

Still waiting for you to demonstrate that I was defending the LE signing.....

Can you try to tone down the personal attacks?

Also reread the post you quoted. I edited it, you misunderstand my point about Eriksson.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Can you try to tone down the personal attacks?

Also reread the post you quoted. I edited it, you misunderstand my point about Eriksson.
This is what you said..".Im sure you are able to now admit that Loui Eriksson signing was a mistake"

Thats complete dishonesty...If your going to type that..back it up.
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
Maybe, but still with better players you have a better chance to win if it comes to that. Doesn't matter if it's by scoring a ton or how you do it.
He's not Erik Karlsson offensively good to make you forget about defensive shortcomings. We'll have to agree to disagree. He's an upgrade over Guds without the puck, but that ain't saying alot.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Thank you for admitting to that mistake...

Of course the LE signing was awful...most of Bennings pro scouting moves sucked in his first two years on the job.

Why did we need to go through these weird ass word games for you to admit this?

I was just trying to establish that even you, the head of Jim Benning Defence Corps, are SOMETIMES capable of identifying a mistake your glorious leader has done.

It takes half a page of posts for this to register with you?
 

Uncle Scrooge

Hockey Bettor
Nov 14, 2011
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1. Ok, if I understand your point, when players are out of the lineup it is good to have other players.

Last season when Edler and Tanev were out it was good that there was somebody-in that case Ben Hutton-to step forward and play big minutes. That doesn't make that horrible contract that Hutton got at the end of his entry level contract a good one.

Now you're referring to "depth" that costs $6 million per season. In a world where cap space is a limited resource, spending that on depth would be a waste of a valuable resource that could have been used to get more and better depth.

A $ 6 million player needs to be more than depth to be a worthwhile investment. I say that not to claim that Myers is just depth (he's more than that) but to make the point that justifying his signing as increasing team depth is a fallacy.

2. Opinions on Myers' worth vary greatly.

Some say he's a defensive slug and worth little.

Some say he's an offensive juggernaut and # 1 defenceman.

I think he's good offensively, only fair defensively and that on balance his value is that of a 2nd pair guy. If he was being paid 2nd pair money for the next three seasons I wouldn't criticize the signing.

Myers is certainly a step up from some of the other defensive acquisitions the team has made through the years and imo there's nothing bad with having Myers on the team. He's likely to do some good things, be the hero occasionally, make mediocre defensive decisions that largely go unnoticed and function at a reasonable level. The issue isn't likely to be whether we got a slug but whether the Canucks have, again, handed out a contract for too long and too much money.

Paying him $6 million values him at the level of his offence contributions and pretty much ignores his mediocre defensive play.

As to term, paying him that for five seasons, until he reaches the age of 34, seems to me to make no allowance whatsoever for the possibility of age-related decline. Some of the decline in value will be offset by inflation, but it seems to me that there must still be some allowance for the risk of decline.

My estimate of the difference between his contract and the value he brings to the team would be higher than yours even without taking into account the risk of age-related decline before the end of the contract.

I agree, it's an expensive "luxury" to have Myers as (let's just say) your #4 defenseman. In many ways, this is a bad contract. I don't think anyone with common sense would argue otherwise. Many teams choose to go with way cheaper players who still get the job done as their #4 and for a good reason.

However Myers over Ben Hutton is a fairly significant improvement and does make the Canucks a better team. I say this having seen both players the last few years quite a bit and i do think Myers is underrated. He's not a stat darling, and makes mistakes, but he's not afraid to take on a bigger role and brings some nice things to the table like decent offensive abilities as well as reach of a guy who is 6'8". Also skates well for a man of his size. And i dare to say that the team feels pretty good to just have his presence on the team, when you see a mature veteran 6'8 dman with 600+ games under his belt enter the room (i guess you could quote Babcock and his gud pro line here), and you realize he's not even one of your top dmen, that's nice for a team looking to build confidence. He was absolutely part of why the Jets felt good about their defense going from 16/17 to 17/18, in sort of a similar situation as the Canucks are in now.

If the team is close to being a playoff team next season, like they should, every point in the standings counts. Wherever Myers ends up playing the Canucks can roll their dpairs more evenly this season if everyone stay healthy and that always helps. And if those injuries occur (knock on wood), Myers can step up and say no problem, been there done that. In a close race he can end up mattering.

At the end of the day im looking at the dcore as a whole, and honestly, i like it. Wouldn't like it as much without Myers. If the Canucks make the playoffs and Myers played well and was part of it, his contract probably won't feel as bad at the end of the season. That's all im saying.

He's not Erik Karlsson offensively good to make you forget about defensive shortcomings. We'll have to agree to disagree. He's an upgrade over Guds without the puck, but that ain't saying alot.

Well yeah. But over the course of a long season difference between him and other inferior options will show in a positive way.
 
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Bleach Clean

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Well howsabout we talk about just THIS season? What could he have done differently to make our defense better? I agree with the poster that says that the last years of this contract might well be odious but that probably goes for 99% of the UFA contracts that are handed out. Myers was pretty much the best option available, imperfect though he may be (signing UFA's to bolster you team is not the greatest way to improve it but it IS one option and one that costs the team nothing but money which FAQ seems to have lots of). I agree he has made mistakes along the way but I don't see what else he could have done THIS off season. What do you think?


The best option available was no signing. That's almost always the best option when it comes UFA signings. Why? Because the contract is often times more important than the player.

The issue with your rationale is that you want an answer that conforms to the context Benning created for himself. This automatically lacks perspective. Think about it this way instead:

1. How many deviations away from a #4 Dman is the money paid to Myers? You say that all UFAs are overpaid, and this is largely true, but this doesn't tell us how much he is overpaid. Once you quantify that he is a top32 paid dman that actually has the performance markers in the top97 to top128 dman range, you will understand just how bad this contract actually is.

2. With perfect distribution, a dman at the 112th rank (split the difference between 96 and 128), should be making 1.74 million~ . That is about 3.5 times less than the 6 million given to the top32 defender. That's the value disparity. Now obviously, perfect distribution is not directly applicable. There is scarcity involved and an altered contract status (UFA). That shouldn't amount to 4m+ AAV though.

3. Next, money is an asset. When you say it costs the team nothing but money, you are actually saying that the money cannot be utilized in a better fashion than it is being utilized here. That's wrong. Money is valuable in the context of cap space. Benning doesn't know this.

4. Many have listed options that would have been preferred. C. Miller, Subban, or even going back and trading for Jensen. There are many things that could have been done. They were not done, and here we are.

5. Benning had to create a playoff team now. Is Myers the difference? I hope you don't think he is? If he's not the difference, then you are looking at a much bigger problem than simply supplementing the defense in 1 offseason.


I would recommend changing the paradigm with which you choose to judge Benning's moves. In isolation, this is a bad contract. That's first. In the context of what Benning has done, it's probably passable with what he has already done -- which is an indictment in of itself.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Why did we need to go through these weird ass word games for you to admit this?

I was just trying to establish that even you, the head of Jim Benning Defence Corps, are SOMETIMES capable of identifying a mistake your glorious leader has done.

It takes half a page of posts for this to register with you?
Admit what?..that LE was a bad signing ..You’re the one writing the BS that I was defending the signing remember..?

If your going to outright lie...and post dishonestly...I’m done answering your posts..see ya.
 

Zippgunn

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The best option available was no signing. That's almost always the best option when it comes UFA signings. Why? Because the contract is often times more important than the player.

The issue with your rationale is that you want an answer that conforms to the context Benning created for himself. This automatically lacks perspective. Think about it this way instead:

1. How many deviations away from a #4 Dman is the money paid to Myers? You say that all UFAs are overpaid, and this is largely true, but this doesn't tell us how much he is overpaid. Once you quantify that he is a top32 paid dman that actually has the performance markers in the top97 to top128 dman range, you will understand just how bad this contract actually is.

2. With perfect distribution, a dman at the 112th rank (split the difference between 96 and 128), should be making 1.74 million~ . That is about 3.5 times less than the 6 million given to the top32 defender. That's the value disparity. Now obviously, perfect distribution is not directly applicable. There is scarcity involved and an altered contract status (UFA). That shouldn't amount to 4m+ AAV though.

3. Next, money is an asset. When you say it costs the team nothing but money, you are actually saying that the money cannot be utilized in a better fashion than it is being utilized here. That's wrong. Money is valuable in the context of cap space. Benning doesn't know this.

4. Many have listed options that would have been preferred. C. Miller, Subban, or even going back and trading for Jensen. There are many things that could have been done. They were not done, and here we are.

5. Benning had to create a playoff team now. Is Myers the difference? I hope you don't think he is? If he's not the difference, then you are looking at a much bigger problem than simply supplementing the defense in 1 offseason.


I would recommend changing the paradigm with which you choose to judge Benning's moves. In isolation, this is a bad contract. That's first. In the context of what Benning has done, it's probably passable with what he has already done -- which is an indictment in of itself.

I only agree with point #5. #4 are exactly that, options but they are not guaranteed options and who knows if we could have made any of those deals. When you say that the best option was no signing do you means he should have done nothing to improve the defense? I agree with the poster before you; having a veteran experienced BIG d man is never a bad thing and I can't believe he doesn't make us a better team. Crunching numbers and all is fine but until we see him play we can only guess at whether this was a good move or not. It shows me that Benning is at least trying.
 

Bleach Clean

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I only agree with point #5. #4 are exactly that, options but they are not guaranteed options and who knows if we could have made any of those deals. When you say that the best option was no signing do you means he should have done nothing to improve the defense? I agree with the poster before you; having a veteran experienced BIG d man is never a bad thing and I can't believe he doesn't make us a better team. Crunching numbers and all is fine but until we see him play we can only guess at whether this was a good move or not. It shows me that Benning is at least trying.


Wait and see is not a defense. People have seen Myers play. People have studied his effectiveness. That's how his pay is being evaluated.

"A veteran experienced BIG dman is never a bad thing" - Benning on Gudbranson.

If you are a manager of a company, and the choice in front of you is to make a bad deal or no deal, which do you do? If you want to say that Benning had to do something to save his job, and he did it, then that means he's not good at his job. He made the wrong choice. Basically, that's the type of manager that needs to be fired.

Finally, plenty of options were available. What does "guaranteed" mean? You asked for options, and they were provided. When you start looking at things like nothing else could have been done, even when counter-points are provided, then you leave people with the impression that you weren't really looking for an alternative answer.
 
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Bobby Digital

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It seems like the people who like the Myers signing are looking at it from the perspective of this season alone. No long term view of the looming hell this contract will bring us when the young core is entering their prime

There's no way you can justify a 5/30 million dollar contract for a player of Myers caliber. #1 money to a declining #4 or #5 Dman who is below average defensively and has missed close to 50% of his games over the last 6 seasons. For what? To give us a chance at finishing 7-9 for a year or two before his contract becomes another Eriksson?

It's a move that screams desperation, it comes from the same place that gave us an albatross contract in Eriksson and a terrible deal that landed us Gudbranson.

If you care about this team being better for this season and that's it then this move is great. If you care about this team winning the Stanley Cup then it's indefensible.

Considering Benning supporters consistently show the lack of long term vision, what it takes to win the Stanley Cup, or the want to win the cup over being "entertained" in the short term, it's not surprising they like this move.
 
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Luck 6

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It seems like the people who like the Myers signing are looking at it from the perspective of this season alone. No long term view of the looming hell this contract will bring us when the young core is entering their prime

There's no way you can justify a 5/30 million dollar contract for a player of Myers caliber. #1 money to a declining #4 or #5 Dman who is below average defensively and has missed close to 50% of his games over the last 6 seasons. For what? To give us a chance at finishing 7-9 for a year or two before his contract becomes another Eriksson?

It's a move that screams desperation, it comes from the same place that gave us an albatross contract in Eriksson and a terrible deal that landed us Gudbranson.

If you care about this team being better for this season and that's it then this move is great. If you care about this team winning the Stanley Cup then it's indefensible.

Considering Benning supporters consistently show the lack of long term vision, what it takes to win the Stanley Cup, or the want to win the cup over being "entertained" in the short term, it's not surprising they like this move.

I certainly see your point, but it is far from a sure thing that Myers will hinder us going forward. Edler is currently 33 years old going into this year, Myers will also be 33 years old at the start of his contracts final year. I think there is a high probability he will still be a viable player at that point, and if not, some cap relief can be retrieved through a buyout. Not only that, but 6mil will likely be worth much less then.

I am approaching this contract as “cautiously optimistic.” I like Myers, and I don’t mind paying a 29 year old defenseman on a 5 year term. But, I think our blue line is far from solidified.
 

Megaterio Llamas

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Considering Benning supporters consistently show the lack of long term vision, what it takes to win the Stanley Cup, or the want to win the cup over being "entertained" in the short term, it's not surprising they like this move.
This is because it is the publicly expressed organizational philosophy of the Aquilini era Canucks ownership to view each season as a self contained unit of sports entertainment, every year with the singular goal of making the playoffs. Each season follows the previous one with the same goal and the planning is undertaken anew each year without regard for previous or future seasons. The goal is always to make the playoffs, and with luck the team may even advance in the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup. But the Stanley Cup is not the goal; winning the Stanley Cup requires luck and that is something that cannot be planned for.
 
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Bankerguy

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I think he's a great no.5 guy
an average no. 4 guy
and weak no. 3 guy

at any rate he'll be miles better than Biega and will actually contribute something sometimes

Also, he'll be playing with Edler or Hughes.... that'll help him bigtime
 

Megaterio Llamas

el rey del mambo
Oct 29, 2011
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I think he's a great no.5 guy
an average no. 4 guy
and weak no. 3 guy

at any rate he'll be miles better than Biega and will actually contribute something sometimes

Also, he'll be playing with Edler or Hughes.... that'll help him bigtime
Playing him with Hughes might actually provide some needed comic relief in the middle of the winter doldrums. Perhaps the Canucks could work on a roller derby type of play where the teammates slingshot Hughes through Myers' legs up the ice?

That'd be a breakout that would be tough to game plan against ;)
 
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Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
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Yes there were other options available. Barrie was an option. Who do you suggest the Canucks part with to acquire him? The Subban option was reportedly explored but the Canucks chose to not do a deal where salary was not retained. As for Miller, he's a popular target but he didn't have a good year last season. Just comparing his underlying stats to Myers last season was Miller better? I don't think so. Ultimately, Miller was moved for a 2021 2nd and a 2022 5th. Isn't that weird? Did nobody offer a 2019 or even 2020 2nd for him? Perhaps Vegas wanted to trade him outside of the Conference? I don't think you can classify Jokiharju as a comparable option at this point.

Buffalo has more Dmen than they need? That's after they went out and acquired 2 Dmen no? Who do you suggest the Canucks go after? Ristolainen? I'm under the impression that they defense sucked last season. As for Columbus, I have no idea who you are looking at there. The Canucks have a surplus of forwards as well. Reportedly Eriksson, a two time 30 goal scorer and 3 time 70+ point producer, is available.



So is your argument to never over pay for a player or you only pay "good" players? There's a difference. I don't think Benn is in the same class as Karlsson.
Miller is as good as Myers and paid 3,8 million for three years, and is 3 years younger. Yes I would rather pay for him than for Myers, who is a declining asset and not a first pairing d-man.

Buffalo has 8 d-men on NHL deals plus Jokiharju and Pilut, who both are NHL ready. So yes more than they need. Anything else.

Whats your point about Karlsson and Benn?
My point is don't overpay for players you dont need, getting another no4 rightsize d-man was pointless. Canucks needed a top pairing d-man now Myers and his to expensive contract is in the way of that.
 
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