Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV)

[Hoghandler]

What about when Morrisey and Byfuglien were both injured and Myers got time on the top pair?

Patrick Johnston: The dangers of the Canucks signing Tyler Myers

"At the beginning of 2018-19, he was playing as Winnipeg’s No. 4 defenceman. By the end, he’d spent a good chunk of it as the No. 2.
The first role, he did alright in. The latter, not so much."

"This past season, though, with Myers on the ice the opposition got more shots at the Jets’ net than the Jets got on the opposition’s. And those shots that the Jets’ opponents got off were far too often in prime scoring areas."

"There was one forward line with whom Myers did have success: the Jets’ third line, which generally featured three of Andrew Copp, Mathieu Perreault, Adam Lowry and Brandon Tanev.
That’s a strong trio, one that consistently took the play to the opposition’s weaker defenders. That meant that Myers, quite simply, didn’t have to play defence as much."

Not a great analysis by Johnston here. He is trying to write off Myers successes to the forwards he played with, while completely overlooking the negative implications for Myers having to line up alongside dreadful defense partners all season long. No mention whatsoever about Myers quality of partners in the article.

Johnston started with a conclusion and worked backwards to find evidence to support it. If you're breaking down the quality of competition or teammates for a defenseman, you always start with their D partner and go from there...

 

[Pavel96]

Not a great analysis by Johnston here. He is trying to write off Myers successes to the forwards he played with, while completely overlooking the negative implications for Myers having to line up alongside dreadful defense partners all season long. No mention whatsoever about Myers quality of partners in the article.

Johnston started with a conclusion and worked backwards to find evidence to support it. If you're breaking down the quality of competition or teammates for a defenseman, you always start with their D partner and go from there...

The article writes about when he played in a top 2 role. In that case he would have had a decent partner, not someone worse than the worst player on the canucks , even with 2 injuries. In that role, he looked worse, than when he was playing further down the lineup, with worse partners.

 

[Jack Burton]

How many of those have done it for 8+ seasons?

I'll hang up and listen.

Hang up all ya want...most peeps who think Benning did well always do.

You will learn very quickly that Myers is grossly overpaid for the service he provides.

Simply put...he's just another Dman that this regime values way too much.

He can be easily replaced for a fraction of the price.

 

[Hoghandler]

The article writes about when he played in a top 2 role. In that case he would have had a decent partner, not someone worse than the worst player on the canucks , even with 2 injuries. In that role, he looked worse, than when he was playing further down the lineup, with worse partners.

Unfortunately for Myers, this isn't accurate. Josh Morrissey was the Jets only quality left side defender, and he didn't play with Myers.

The Jets left side behind Morrissey was worse than the Canucks left side. this is completely lost on the author, and why it was such a poor article. That should have been the first thing Johnston noticed when he did is deep dive.

 

[Jack Burton]

The article writes about when he played in a top 2 role. In that case he would have had a decent partner, not someone worse than the worst player on the canucks , even with 2 injuries. In that role, he looked worse, than when he was playing further down the lineup, with worse partners.

Bingo!

When the injuries hit Tanev and Edler, Myers will completely collapse as a top pairing Dman!

This is not up for debate.

He was given the chance multiple times to prove himself and has completely failed with every opportunity.

Perhaps all the rainbows and lollipops will propel him to stardom here in Vancouver!

 

[Pavel96]

Unfortunately for Myers, this isn't accurate. Josh Morrissey was the Jets only quality left side defender, and he didn't play with Myers.

The Jets left side behind Morrissey was worse than the Canucks left side. this is completely lost on the author, and why it was such a poor article. That should have been the first thing Johnston noticed when he did is deep dive.

Now it's 'quality', a few posts ago it was

"The worst defender in the starting lineup that he will play alongside in Vancouver will be better than the best guy he played with last season."

Chiarot is worse than the worst defender in vancouver?

​

 

[Hoghandler]

Now it's 'quality', a few posts ago it was

"The worst defender in the starting lineup that he will play alongside in Vancouver will be better than the best guy he played with last season."

Chiarot is worse than the worst defender in vancouver?
​

It was and still is quality.

Ben Chiarot wouldn't crack the Canucks defense if I was coaching. He would be my #8. Slot in right behind Biega.​

 

[Pavel96]

It was and still is quality.

Ben Chiarot wouldn't crack the Canucks defense if I was coaching. He would be my #8. Slot in right behind Biega.​

Montreal obviously values him more than someone in your top 8.

 

[Hoghandler]

Montreal obviously values him more than someone in your top 8.

Ben Chiarot was Montreal's backup plan. Benn chose to go home and rejected the Habs offer.

 

[Pavel96]

Ben Chiarot was Montreal's backup plan. Benn chose to go home and rejected the Habs offer.

Fun speculation.

Chiarot gives Canadiens defence what they need, but more moves likely - Sportsnet.ca

"Adding Chiarot to the fold at least increases the chances we won’t have to find out. He’s not the be-all-end-all solution to this problem Montreal had, but you’d have to consider him to be an upgrade on
Jordie Benn, the 31-year-old lefty who spent two-and-a-quarter seasons in Montreal. Even taking into account that the numbers between both players are similar (Benn had a career-high 22 points in 2018-19), Chiarot gets the edge if only by virtue of being a natural on the left side, where Benn — a natural on the right — struggled considerably in his time with the Canadiens."

Gotta love those sportsnet guys. They are right about Vancouver always so they must be right about this?

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/...signing-ben-chiarot-excited-to-join-canadiens

" Chiarot is an upgrade on Jordie Benn — who signed with the Vancouver Canucks as a free agent — since he is four years younger, will be more comfortable in a top-four role and, like Benn, can kill penalties. Chiarot also plays a strong physical game."


Hockey30 | Ben Chiarot est MEILLEUR...Que Jordie Benn...

"Ben Chariot est meilleur que Jordie Benn"

" Il FRAPPE PLUS FORT..
- Il ne patine pas sur la BOTTINE....
- Bref...
- C'est un bon début..."

 

[Jack Burton]

Ben Chiarot was Montreal's backup plan. Benn chose to go home and rejected the Habs offer.

Don't make this about Benn.

Keep it on Chiarot.

 

[Hoghandler]

Fun speculation.

I only agree with 2 points made in those quotes - Chiarot is younger and more physical. Though to be fair my french isn't great.

Not a fan of guys like Chiarot, Sbisa, Gudbranson that can't pass the puck and throw it off the glass and out consistently. a robust physical game doesn't make up for it either, for me at least. Benn isn't a world beater but he can snap it around a bit and help the transition game. Would take him on my defense over Chiarot.

Not surprises at all that some Habs writers and some fans would be optimistic over the signing. Pretty standard fare with new player acquisitions. None of their 'data' was very convincing though...

Jets fans sure didn't want anything to do with that Chiarot signing. Their opinions are the ones I put some stock into.

 

[Jack Burton]

Jets fans sure didn't want anything to do with that Chiarot signing. Their opinions are the ones I put some stock into.

And they wanted nothing to do with the Myers contract.

Could that be a indicator on Myers?

 

[Hoghandler]

And they wanted nothing to do with the Myers contract.

Could that be a indicator on Myers?

They had no cap space for Myers contract.

Myers contract is too rich. He's a $4.5-5mil #4 dman IMO. Also don't believe you should ever offer a non top end talent anything more than 4 years.

 

[Jack Burton]

They had no cap space for Myers contract.

Myers contract is too rich. He's a $4.5-5mil #4 dman IMO. Also don't believe you should ever offer a non top end talent anything more than 4 years.

He's a 3.5 mill # 5 Dman.

We never should have offered him anything.

#playoffsandgetusedtoit.

 

[Jack Burton]

All I'm going to say this...

MYERS is the prototypical Dman Benning has always sought.

He's been wrong in all his choices.

The stats says he's a borderline 4/5 Dman.

The eye test says he's a borderline 4/5 Dman.

Winnipeg fans says he's a borderline 4/5 Dman.

I've been watching him his entire career and think he's a Perfect 3rd line partner to help the kiddies.

 

[Askel]

Like I said, trading for Miller was a popular option here. But like I said, he didn't have a good year last season. I don't fault any team for not trading a 2nd round plus for him.

Miller outpaced Myers in scoring last year. If he had a bad year what did Myers have? He is also younger. I rather pay assets for Miller than shitloads of salary for Myers.

So what you're suggesting is to wait for other teams to make all their moves and then try to acquire an expendable Dman from a team like Buffalo? And how do you know they aren't carrying 8 Dmen? The Canucks have been carrying 8 Dmen.

No Im saying there were other options and still are to get a D-man. Stop with this straw man BS. I have gives a lot of examples for other d-men go after. Im not listing them again.

What you said is that you only pay good players and then you bought some other points that contradicted what you said. You brought up paying Karlsson who was never available. What I said was that there is a balance. You don't want to over pay any player but at some point you need players.

I said players LIKE Karlsson, he was an example of the level of player you overpay for as an UFA. Like Panarin, and Tavares, instead of signing two Myers and Eriksson you sing one of these level of players. And if you can't do that than sign no-one .You dont need a player like Myers, and you don´t need to pay him 6 million.

I said was that there is a balance. You don't want to over pay any player but at some point you need players.

And as I said Im fine with Benn a no 5 d-man making 2 million, and I would be fine if Myers the no 4 d-man was making 4 million. ITS THE 6 MILLION THAT`S THE PROBLEM.

 

[F A N]

Miller outpaced Myers in scoring last year. If he had a bad year what did Myers have? He is also younger. I rather pay assets for Miller than ****loads of salary for Myers.

Outpaced? So he didn't outproduced Myers then? Miller not having a good season last season isn't in question. You are free to have your own opinion of what you would do if you were the GM.

No Im saying there were other options and still are to get a D-man. Stop with this straw man BS. I have gives a lot of examples for other d-men go after. Im not listing them again.

Aw someone disagrees with you and it's upsetting? I replied specifically to your examples and you ignored it. For example, I asked what do you propose the Canucks to trade to acquire Barrie, which is an option you listed. Why don't you answer the question?

I said players LIKE Karlsson, he was an example of the level of player you overpay for as an UFA. Like Panarin, and Tavares, instead of signing two Myers and Eriksson you sing one of these level of players. And if you can't do that than sign no-one .You dont need a player like Myers, and you don´t need to pay him 6 million.

And my response is that I rather pay McDavid than Horvat.

And as I said Im fine with Benn a no 5 d-man making 2 million, and I would be fine if Myers the no 4 d-man was making 4 million. ITS THE 6 MILLION THAT`S THE PROBLEM.

Ya I'm fine with underpaying every single player on the team. That's the way to do it for sure. Would love it if every contract ion the Canucks s a steal. But $4M isn't even market value for an established #4 Dman with Myers' offensive production. Ian Cole is making $4.25M AAV.

 

[Askel]

You are talking like Myers have great offensive production he had not. Myers had 31 pts in 80 games, Miller had 29 in 63. You Dont pay 6 million for that production. Ian Cole is overpaid I agree Miller is not , this is why you dont sign no 4 d-man as UFAs.

We are going in circles here, let´s evaluate Myers after the season to see who is right.
My points are about how you build a good team:

• You don´t overpay mediocre players
• Myers is not some sort of elite player, acquiring players of his caliber is not impossible, hell Buffalo has acquired 3 men of his caliber in the last year.
• Its ok to pay for elite talent
• Capspace is an asset, spending it on players like Myers, Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter is not a smart plan.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It was and still is quality.

Ben Chiarot wouldn't crack the Canucks defense if I was coaching. He would be my #8. Slot in right behind Biega.​

Well, you are not very good at assessing D men then.

 

[4Twenty]

Not a great analysis by Johnston here. He is trying to write off Myers successes to the forwards he played with, while completely overlooking the negative implications for Myers having to line up alongside dreadful defense partners all season long. No mention whatsoever about Myers quality of partners in the article.

Johnston started with a conclusion and worked backwards to find evidence to support it. If you're breaking down the quality of competition or teammates for a defenseman, you always start with their D partner and go from there...

I don't know about that, when you see heavy offensive zone starts with offensive players I think that has more effect than the guy he's playing beside. And considering the games of those partners tend to improve when not playing with Myers.

I just have a hard time thinking playing with a guy like Kulikov (600 NHL game defensman) for 2/3 of his ice time over the past 3 years is more impactful than getting softer 2nd line offensive matchups with the highest scoring teenager in NHL history and near 60% offensive zone starts.

I do however hope he gets the same usage in Vancouver next to Hughes and with the top line.

I do find it interesting you're talking up Jets fans opinions on Chiariot but not mentioning their feelings on Myers, or the Habs opinions on the supposed stalwart Jordie Benn. I find it funny you separate a guy like Benn from the Sbisa, Chiariot, Gudbranson....they're all the same type of player...at least Benn is cheap.

 

[MS]

Man, the comedy here is top-notch.

The best guy he played with last year wouldn't even crack the Canucks!
- Ben Chiarot, who actually outplayed Myers in Winnipeg last year?

Chiarot would be a #8 here. Ask Winnipeg fans what they think!
- Uh, Winnipeg fans liked Chiarot a hell of a lot more than Myers.

Chiarot was a downgrade Montreal had to take because Benn left to come here!
- Uh, actually they let Benn go, are paying Chiarot more, and consider him an upgrade.

Colin Miller stunk last year! Terrible season!
- Actually he outproduced the guy you're trying to hype up as a great signing for $6 million.

 

[Hoghandler]

Man, the comedy here is top-notch.

The best guy he played with last year wouldn't even crack the Canucks!
- Ben Chiarot, who actually outplayed Myers in Winnipeg last year?

Chiarot would be a #8 here. Ask Winnipeg fans what they think!
- Uh, Winnipeg fans liked Chiarot a hell of a lot more than Myers.

Chiarot was a downgrade Montreal had to take because Benn left to come here!
- Uh, actually they let Benn go, are paying Chiarot more, and consider him an upgrade.

Yikes.

You need to watch more Ben Chiarot. He would be the Canucks 8th best puck mover on the backend. His toughness doesn't make up for that fact for me. Not a fan of the glass and out, old school dmen like him.

Jets fans wanted absolutely no part of Chiarot at $3.5mil. They would have taken Myers back at those dollars in a heartbeat. Rightfully so. Chiarot has been a 6-7 his whole career and only was given a bigger opportunity last season because the Jets left side was terrible, and Morrissey missed 25 games to injury. Habs fans weren't happy with the signing either.

You're wrong on Benn too. Bergevin tried to sign him but Jordie wanted to play in his hometown. Not a whole lot separates Benn and Chiarot but I prefer Benn's superior puck moving ability.

You think Chiarot is a better player than Biega as well?

 

[timw33]

Jets fans wanted absolutely no part of Chiarot at $3.5mil. They would have taken Myers back at those dollars in a heartbeat.

Just for clarity's sake, do you think Tyler Myers is worth $6MM?

 

[Hoghandler]

Just for clarity's sake, do you think Tyler Myers is worth $6MM?

No. He's a $4.5mil player in my estimation. Decent #4 that can play in all situations.