Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | 4 Nations Break Edition

[Reverend Mayhem]

If this team ain't being run like the 2005-06 Carolina Hurricanes the past two seasons, I'll just pack it in and wait to here y'alls opinion on that.

Call me a monkey's uncle.

 

[David71]

i think when the four nations is done. some gms have some irons in the fire that are finished just waiting for it to be announced so they dont take the attention away from the tournament.

 

[Diablo2020]

The Petey redemption arc is gonna be epic otherwise we're screwed.

As a fanbase that was on the other side of the Oliver Ekman-Larsson fiasco can we pleeeease get ahead of this one?

Dude was also shopped from season one of his albatross deal he could never live upto but his NMC allowed him to hold firm for a calendar year on two teams, us or Boston.

2 yrs into a 66 million dollar deal hes being retained for 6 years and traded for capdumps.

Lets inflict the OEL pain on someone.

He probably had truthers too. Apoligists would tell you he was a future norris winner who led his team in scoring twice while scoring 20+ twice as a Dman, all before the age of 25.

But a contract he couldnt live upto plus injuries cooked him. Kinda like Petey.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

As a fanbase that was on the other side of the Oliver Ekman-Larsson fiasco can we pleeeease get ahead of this one?

Dude was also shopped from season one of his albatross deal he could never live upto but his NMC allowed him to hold firm for a calendar year on two teams, us or Boston.

2 yrs into a 66 million dollar deal hes being retained for 6 years and traded for capdumps.

Lets inflict the OEL pain on someone.

He probably had truthers too. Apoligists would tell you he was a future norris winner who led his team in scoring twice while scoring 20+ twice as a Dman, all before the age of 25.

But a contract he couldnt live upto plus injuries cooked him. Kinda like Petey.

Good thing we don't have the same coach OEL had.

Well f***.

 

[David71]

10 interesting buy-low candidates the Canucks could target

Since JT Miller was traded to the New York Rangers, the <a href="https...

canucksarmy.com

 

[Vector]

10 interesting buy-low candidates the Canucks could target

Since JT Miller was traded to the New York Rangers, the <a href="https...

canucksarmy.com

The author of this article really did a lot of research and I think everyone here should send him a bunch of money.

Seriously though, warms my heart to see this posted without context.

 

[F A N]

If he has chronic issues with his knee to go with his slight and vulnerable frame we could be saddled with a horrible contract situation rather quickly if he continues to get hurt and then struggle with feeling "right" enough to be a difference maker

If he was more impressive athletically i would be more bullish on a return to form. He's 26 now and i wouldn't expect much muscle growth at this stage

I don't think he is slight anymore and hasn't been for at least a couple of years. As for muscle growth and strength, I think there's room to grow. Men naturally fill out and get heavier. Besides, Petey at his best isn't a guy who takes a lot of hits. Earlier in his career he got injured from cheap hits but it's not like he was fragile.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I believe the author should also believe in themselves, they are quite a bit smarter than maybe even they think and need to make peace with following their heart now as well.

Be great at whatever it is you do, and just believe in yourself. That's really the big key right there. Struggle is a natural part of life. If you can find joy within it, you must have been born to do it.

I believe that EP will be alright, my friends. Struggle is natural, when glory is inevitable.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

The only people who think that Petey not suddenly becoming dynamic at the Frozen Four is emblematic that the problem is 'SERIUS NOW GUYZ' are those who don't understand that his injury/recovery will not be fixed this season.

So every single time they watch him, they go through the same paroxysms of indignant rage that we pay him 11.6 million and he hasn't found a rip in the space-time continuum to fix what is wrong with him.

He's not going to look like the Petey of a year and a half ago this year guys. If that's what you need to see to become balanced emotionally again, then perhaps stop watching for the rest of the year. I'm probably his biggest supporter on here and I'm telling you. He won't be dynamic this year.

-
I also wonder how many people have implicit cognitive biases where they are making connections that are flawed and are occurring beneath their conscious awareness.

Like, we signed Loui Eriksson to a big contract and he was an absolute lemon for us. Then we traded for OEL and he was injured and wasn't what he had been previously anymore and clearly wasn't worth his contract anymore.

Those guys are all Swedish.

Swedes don't tend to be fire and brimstone J.T. Miller types, and many in North America seem to misread their body language to mean they don't care or whatever because they aren't being fighty and yelly.

So people see that and think, 'A Swede signed a big contract and is underperforming...just like those guys'.

But correlation is not causation and those examples have literally nothing to do with Pettersson.

As @bossram says, you may believe in Petey less than I happen to. But understand that our best path to contender status this decade is for our dynamic, top 10ish center to return to form. It's not to trade him for a flawed 2nd liner and a D man with concussion issues or whatever fantasy trade du jour people are discussing.

 

[VancouverJagger]

The only people who think that Petey not suddenly becoming dynamic at the Frozen Four is emblematic that the problem is 'SERIUS NOW GUYZ' are those who don't understand that his injury/recovery will not be fixed this season.

So every single time they watch him, they go through the same paroxysms of indignant rage that we pay him 11.6 million and he hasn't found a rip in the space-time continuum to fix what is wrong with him.

He's not going to look like the Petey of a year and a half ago this year guys. If that's what you need to see to become balanced emotionally again, then perhaps stop watching for the rest of the year. I'm probably his biggest supporter on here and I'm telling you. He won't be dynamic this year.

-
I also wonder how many people have implicit cognitive biases where they are making connections that are flawed and are occurring beneath their conscious awareness.

Like, we signed Loui Eriksson to a big contract and he was an absolute lemon for us. Then we traded for OEL and he was injured and wasn't what he had been previously anymore and clearly wasn't worth his contract anymore.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Every game the same posters continue to get riled up over another disappointing performance...........wondering why he hasn't regained his form and vilifying him when he's hasn't...........

At this point it's pretty obvious he's not what he needs to be physically.......feel free to sit and curse.........it's not gonna change anything. As mentioned a dozen times why not see what a solid offseason of training can do ? Or not.........curse away..........it's mental masturbation at this point though

 

[ChilliBilly]

Well, let's hope we have a decent run to the finish this year. Its possible, but there isn't a lot of optimism that its going to happen.

1. good news. Our D position seems set for years.

2. Bad news. EP40 seems to be damaged goods right now. He is unlikely to be worth the value of his contract this year. He "may" return to value but no one is willing to bet on it.

3. Iffy. Demko. Really 50 - 50 on whether or not he will hit Vezina contention again. Needs to be re-signed.

4. Where the hell do we go from here? Middling collection of forwards.

We have most of the pieces in place to repeat a 23 - 24 season again, IF we have everyone hitting on all cylinders. Or we find a diamond in the rough.

On a personal note a few things.

My wife is broke. a chronic new condition means walking is going to be rough for maybe forever. Sucks. Exercise will be hampered. Surgery may help but thats not happening in the foreseeable future.

My family has had seasons tickets since day 1. They are in my name. Being that I am in chilliwack, and that they are way out of my price range, and going up, it looks like I am going to have to give them up. The close friend who has managed them for over 10 years is tired with the hassle of getting to games, and the fact that he can enjoy the games in his living room on his excellent 120" projection TV ... well I think he is done. He lives in West Van, but he just doesn't want the hassle associated with them, and the constant Aquaman trying to screw every penny he can out of the fans.

I have been as die hard a Canucks fan as there is ever since 1970. I am hoping that we win it in my life time, but well shit, time is running out.

Edit - we can always hope we draft a Stoffel. The real honey badger. If you want to be amused, read up on Stoffel.

@nd edit - lol I tried to post on Facebook. the following -

and how in the hell can a video about a rogue honey badger go against "standards"?

 

[tyhee]

Logically, they must think they can find another superstar forward easily. The alternative is that they believe that trading Petey for a collection of B-tier assets would result in a contending team.

No, you're missing the point entirely.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with superstars and it doesn't require that they become a contending team with a change.

All that the position that EP40 should be traded requires is an unwillingness to gamble that the Canucks might be stuck long-term with a boat anchor of a contract. That is just as true if the Canucks are a mediocre team as it is if they were a contender and it is just as true if EP40 were a third line scrub as if he were a superstar.

 

[Vector]

 

[theguardianII]

No, you're missing the point entirely.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with superstars and it doesn't require that they become a contending team with a change.

All that the position that EP40 should be traded requires is an unwillingness to gamble that the Canucks might be stuck long-term with a boat anchor of a contract. That is just as true if the Canucks are a mediocre team as it is if they were a contender and it is just as true if EP40 were a third line scrub as if he were a superstar.

The cap space. They already used 5.5 mil of next year's cap increase and if EP40 stays the same and here then they used up 17 mil of cap space next year for.....a 50pt player?
EP isn't a prospect, he isn't just learning the game, he is a player entering or in his prime years.
Trading him won't make this group a cup contender this year or next but it set the table for years of being a contender is 3 years or so.

Lots of blaming or finding excuses for poor play. Not in shape? He has had over 6 months now of getting into "playing shape", A quote using NHL Edge stats but not using stats that go further back which show a decline.

Now the entire hockey world has seen his decline. I think Allvin just got shot in the foot. EP's own country critiqued and benched him, now the world knows.

 

[BWJM]

The only people who think that Petey not suddenly becoming dynamic at the Frozen Four is emblematic that the problem is 'SERIUS NOW GUYZ' are those who don't understand that his injury/recovery will not be fixed this season.

So every single time they watch him, they go through the same paroxysms of indignant rage that we pay him 11.6 million and he hasn't found a rip in the space-time continuum to fix what is wrong with him.

Maybe he should go on IR if that's the case.. We're battling for a playoff spot here, I'm sure there's a lot we could do come deadline with that cap space.

He's paid to be the face of the franchise, and all we've seen is drama, pouting and poor offensive output from him. So if we have to continue to use an excuse for him, maybe he should just "heal" up.

 

[bossram]

Stepping back, to be successful, you would need the GM to be able to execute. If the GM can’t then it doesn’t matter if we rebuild or build, it’s going to look like shit.

1.) is it hopium that they will find the right targets and be able to get them? I don’t think so. I mean we’ll see who they target and get soon enough and what we they do will answer this. Is it doable, yes, has the management group shown to be able to do it, somewhat but I don’t think we have had an offseason with as much cap to use and as little space to fill.

3.) also I think Allvin has shown to have a track record in the last 2 offseason of being able to execute and then when he makes mistakes, correct them within the season.
Well other cap strapped contenders will spend more, but how many are there really and also how many of them can execute as well? I think the best execution contenders will probably not spend to the cap. I think the biggest one that can spend and can execute is Vegas but their core is aging FAST. Edmonton has the elite talent but the execution so far is meh and it’s tbd if they will really spend to the cap. Rangers will spend but their core is aging out faster than Vegas. Peg is not going to spend to the cap. Tampa, Florida and Canes will most likely not spend to the cap. Toronto will spend to the cap for sure and Treliving has a mixed record when it comes to execution.

I mean yes we have to execute and looking at the record, I think we can execute better than most teams other than Florida, Tampa, Vegas and Canes and only Vegas has the same spending power we do.

You're now switching your argument to basically, "Allvin is the best GM in the league and will execute better than every other team".

Alright, that's a take you can have. But it's tough to have a serious discussion when you move the goalposts in every response.

 

[tyhee]

The problem is it's not just about EP in an isolated bubble. The problem is that teams don't win cups without a 1C, we won't get one back for EP, we don't see any viable options for that role in UFA, and none are on the market in the foreseeable future.

So "mitigating the loss" by trading EP now for a bunch of meh pieces is a disaster for dreams of contending.

It makes us better at being a consistent bubble team and we'd remove the downside risk of him permanently being a 7mil player instead of 11.6, but we also would remove the upside of ever being a contender.

It isn't very tempting when there's still a good chance, as far as it's possible to tell from where we are sitting, that EP returns to at least ppg form next year after a proper offseason.

Your first paragraph makes a bunch of assumptions to support your point, which boil down to we can't contend without a number 1 center, we can't acquire a number 1 center so our only chance is that Petey become a # 1 center. That has the effect of making the opposing case disappear because you assume the entire argument.

The last two Stanley Cup champions were:

-Vegas Golden Knights, with Jack Eichel and Chandler Stephenson, both obtained in trades, as their #1 C and # 2 C
-Florida Panthers, with Sam Reinhart, a hybrid center/wing (like JT Miller) as their leading scorer and Sam Bennett (who is on the Canadian Four Nations Cup team) as their 3rd line center. Florida acquired both Reinhart and Bennett by trade.

Teams can and do acquire number 1 centers and when the opportunity arises can't always be predicted too far in advance. If you were to ask people last summer what the chances were that the Canucks would have traded JT Miller for what they actually got virtually everyone, insiders and out, would have said that there was no way that would happen. To stick with Miller but go back several years, when the Canucks acquired JT Miller he was a hybrid winger/center who had never scored more than 58 pts in a season and was coming off a 47 point season with 49.4 per cent of his faceoffs won. He wasn't expected to become a 100+ point powerful 2-way center. Jack Eichel was still playing effectively for the Sabres at the beginning of March, 2021. Eight months later he was traded and in his second season with the Golden Knights was a Stanley Cup champion.

The argument about whether to trade Pettersson is simply an argument over whether the team is more likely to succeed with him or without him. Arguing that the chances aren't good without him is fine, but assuming there is no chance without him simply ignores the argument completely. The chances aren't very good, but they do exist.

 

[bossram]

No, you're missing the point entirely.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with superstars and it doesn't require that they become a contending team with a change.

All that the position that EP40 should be traded requires is an unwillingness to gamble that the Canucks might be stuck long-term with a boat anchor of a contract. That is just as true if the Canucks are a mediocre team as it is if they were a contender and it is just as true if EP40 were a third line scrub as if he were a superstar.

So now you're saying the trade Petey crowd has zero foresight beyond, "trade Petey"?

What does trading Petey accomplish? Where is the club going if they do? You're now saying the "trade Petey" crowd is incapable of thinking of those things in advance.

Trading Petey for a collection of B-list assets is just a different kind of gamble. It's a different bet. But you're saying that there's no thought whatsoever what the bet would "win". It's just:

Step 1: Trade Petey
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit!!!

 

[TruGr1t]

So now you're saying the trade Petey crowd has zero foresight beyond, "trade Petey"?

What does trading Petey accomplish? Where is the club going if they do? You're now saying the "trade Petey" crowd is incapable of thinking of those things in advance.

Trading Petey for a collection of B-list assets is just a different kind of gamble. It's a different bet. But you're saying that there's no thought whatsoever what the bet would "win". It's just:

Step 1: Trade Petey
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit!!!

That's not really anyone's job outside of management. They've repeatedly proven if they make major moves, they already have a secondary move in mind. I do not think they are just going to trade Pettersson and sit there with their hands down their pants. I would assume if they move him they will do a bunch of other stuff subsequently.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

When it comes to Petey, I can only think of 2 comparable cases where a star level young forward just seemed to completely lose their game: Patrik Laine and Sean Monahan. Monahan recovered somewhat, but in either case, moving on from the player was the right call. Even though all that's said about Petey not returning an elite piece is likely true.

 

[bossram]

Your first paragraph makes a bunch of assumptions to support your point, which boil down to we can't contend without a number 1 center, we can't acquire a number 1 center so our only chance is that Petey become a # 1 center. That has the effect of making the opposing case disappear because you assume the entire argument.

The last two Stanley Cup champions were:

-Vegas Golden Knights, with Jack Eichel and Chandler Stephenson, both obtained in trades, as their #1 C and # 2 C
-Florida Panthers, with Sam Reinhart, a hybrid center/wing (like JT Miller) as their leading scorer and Sam Bennett (who is on the Canadian Four Nations Cup team) as their 3rd line center. Florida acquired both Reinhart and Bennett by trade.

Teams can and do acquire number 1 centers and when the opportunity arises can't always be predicted too far in advance. If you were to ask people last summer what the chances were that the Canucks would have traded JT Miller for what they actually got virtually everyone, insiders and out, would have said that there was no way that would happen. To stick with Miller but go back several years, when the Canucks acquired JT Miller he was a hybrid winger/center who had never scored more than 58 pts in a season and was coming off a 47 point season with 49.4 per cent of his faceoffs won. He wasn't expected to become a 100+ point powerful 2-way center. Jack Eichel was still playing effectively for the Sabres at the beginning of March, 2021. Eight months later he was traded and in his second season with the Golden Knights was a Stanley Cup champion.

The argument about whether to trade Pettersson is simply an argument over whether the team is more likely to succeed with him or without him. Arguing that the chances aren't good without him is fine, but assuming there is no chance without him simply ignores the argument completely. The chances aren't very good, but they do exist.

1. The lesson of Jack Eichel is that you don't want to be the BUF end selling the high-end player. The Canucks are BUF in this scenario.

2. Reinhart has not played center in Florida.

3. Bennett is far from a 1C. Stephenson is not a 1C.

4. Miller is your only legitimate example here.

 

[Bobby9]

DOC signed for 2.5 per

 

[TruGr1t]

DOC signed for 2.5 per

Nice:

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Three are two EP camps:

1. Those that think he will recover and want to keep him
2. Those that think he won't and want to trade him

It really doesn't matter if the recovery is physical or mental, it comes down to what one thinks as far as his ability to recover regardless.

I fully believe we all want #1 but the $11.6M/yr question is will that actually happen?

Because of "Canuck Luck", we all have a massive amount of PTSD from everything that has happened before so that forms part of our thoughts/opinions.

But none of it really matters as the only thing that matters is what mgmt thinks.

 

[bossram]

Three are two EP camps:

1. Those that think he will recover and want to keep him
2. Those that think he won't and want to trade him

It really doesn't matter if the recovery is physical or mental, it comes down to what one thinks as far as his ability to recover regardless.

I fully believe we all want #1 but the $11.6M/yr question is will that actually happen?

Because of "Canuck Luck", we all have a massive amount of PTSD from everything that has happened before so that forms part of our thoughts/opinions.

But none of it really matters as the only thing that matters is what mgmt thinks.

No, those really aren't the camps. I've posted a lot of nuance on the Pro-Petey angle. It's really not about whether he'll recover. I'm pretty firmly "Pro-Petey" and my assessment is that it is still not super likely he returns to form.