Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM | Part 2

[m9]

I just find the bizarre obsession with 4th liners absurd.

Guys like Joshua, Aman, Highmore or Lammikko are never going to eclipse 20+ points nor will they stand out every game. Their objective is to not get scored on. Do this for league minimum? Great!

Even the best Canucks team in the cap era had a mishmash of guys like Lapierre, Rypien, Oreskovich and Glass come in and put up 0's most nights.

Those four 2011 guys generally brought things like toughness and/or defensive play to the table. Not saying they were great, but it's something.

I think it's a fair question to ask what some of Kravtsov/Podkolzin/Studnicka guys offer.

 

[StickShift]

I'm just happy when we have 4th line players doing 4th line player things at 4th line player cost.

You get into trouble when you have players that can't even tread water.
You get into even more trouble when you begin paying players $1mm, $3mm, $6mm... to be on your 4th line.

 

[MS]

Those four 2011 guys generally brought things like toughness and/or defensive play to the table. Not saying they were great, but it's something.

I think it's a fair question to ask what some of Kravtsov/Podkolzin/Studnicka guys offer.

Kravtsov and Studnicka haven't been good enough to maintain jobs.

Podkolzin is playing because he's essentially the top forward prospect in the organization and has shown fits and starts of being a quality middle-6 winger, but can't seem to bring it consistently.

 

[sting101]

At least there is a coherent understanding that 10-18 F and 6-12 on D are important parts of having a support system in place so that a couple injuries doesn't derail a season. Next man up with a close connection from Abbotsford to Vancouver is massive. As MS said it's more about just holding the fort and not being a detriment (financially and on ice) than getting productivity to counterattack good NHL teams top players. That is the top of the rosters responsibility

4L = Joshua Amen Studnicka
5L = PDG Dries Hoglander
6L = Bains Raty Karlsson

That is a tidy group of support pieces some of which can move into the top3 lines and be decent short term.

1L = Kuzmenko Pettersson Beauvillier
2L = Michayev Miller Boeser
3L = Podkolzin ----A--- Garland

A - Need a 2yr stop gap to push down Amen and Dries and allow Raty more development time

Kravtsov goes to the KHL probably, Dowling Stevens and Focht are probably done here.

 

[Bankerguy]

does anyone know how to quickly find out the following

Canucks shots for
Canucks shots against

total amounts, since Rick Tocchet has become the Coach

I feel like we'd be + here... i know we were always outshot with Bruce behind the bench

 

[Josepho]

does anyone know how to quickly find out the following

Canucks shots for
Canucks shots against

total amounts, since Rick Tocchet has become the Coach

I feel like we'd be + here... i know we were always outshot with Bruce behind the bench

Tocchet

Boudreau

You can find a bunch of other stats at various strengths/rates/etc.

 

[sting101]

I just find the bizarre obsession with 4th liners absurd.

Guys like Joshua, Aman, Highmore or Lammikko are never going to eclipse 20+ points nor will they stand out every game. Their objective is to not get scored on. Do this for league minimum? Great!

Even the best Canucks team in the cap era had a mishmash of guys like Lapierre, Rypien, Oreskovich and Glass come in and put up 0's most nights.

Which is fine until you get a few injuries and players get run out of their roles. Orsekovich is more of an example of what you dont want he wasn't even a good AHLer

Adding Higgins and Lapierre was huge considering they weren't even top9 guys when acquired. Had they not made those 2 acquisitions it would have been a lot tougher to make the finals

 

[andora]

does anyone know how to quickly find out the following

Canucks shots for
Canucks shots against

total amounts, since Rick Tocchet has become the Coach

I feel like we'd be + here... i know we were always outshot with Bruce behind the bench

5on5
10th in the league at 51.12%
569 to 544

 

[sting101]

does anyone know how to quickly find out the following

Canucks shots for
Canucks shots against

total amounts, since Rick Tocchet has become the Coach

I feel like we'd be + here... i know we were always outshot with Bruce behind the bench

2022-23 Vancouver Canucks Team Gamelog | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest Vancouver Canucks game log including regular season and playoff stats and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

i expect a full report lol

 

[ziploc]

Kravtsov and Studnicka haven't been good enough to maintain jobs.

Podkolzin is playing because he's essentially the top forward prospect in the organization and has shown fits and starts of being a quality middle-6 winger, but can't seem to bring it consistently.

Studnicka is what he is.

Kravstov has one more off-season chance, I believe. He HAS to come to camp fired up, in the best shape of his life, and bury chances.

Podz can play a heavier game, which is helpful and allows him to move up and down a little bit on the wings.

 

[sting101]

Those four 2011 guys generally brought things like toughness and/or defensive play to the table. Not saying they were great, but it's something.

I think it's a fair question to ask what some of Kravtsov/Podkolzin/Studnicka guys offer.

I'm not sure why you lump Podkolzin in with 23/24 yr olds? He's 21 and in his sophomore slump year. It's pretty common for players at 21 and at his stage to have these kinds of struggles. He's shown he can score with 12 goals as a rookie and even that shot and foray last night was a reminder of how assertive he can be.

He's been saddled with a tweener C that has has almost zero playmaking ability has hit a wall and gets bodied out on the cycle and Krav who even though the relationship has been fun has been a disconnect in completing plays. Not exactly putting him in a position to excel although yes he has looked lost and needs to play better

His confidence on the puck is tough to watch but you also can see how effectively he's moving around the ice now and disruptive on the forecheck and backcheck. A little more measured approaches with better cardio better line mates and some confidence/poise in what to do when there is no play will make for a different player.

Krav unfortunately has blown his prime development years. He's not assertive enough to take advantage at this level and he's no longer a free waiver nor someone that is interested in playing in the AHL. Unless he impresses a lot more in 11 games he's probably not getting a contract or at least one he will probably want to sign.

Studnicka like Tocchet said needs to make firm puck decisions. He has good size and strength he clearly can skate well and has a pretty good shot (not a scorers shot) He just hasn't found the consistency to be an everyday NHLer. Still think he can be a 13/14 guy and liked him with Amen and Joshua when they weren't being taxed with 3rd line duties which is why he's sitting while they get a look at Krav and probably McDonagh before making decisions on those 2.

I doubt the 3C talks are a thing anymore he's just not good enough on the puck and smart enough in reads. If it ever happens it wont be anytime soon and they cant wait if they are serious about blowing draft assets for win now pieces

 

[MS]

Studnicka is what he is.

Kravstov has one more off-season chance, I believe. He HAS to come to camp fired up, in the best shape of his life, and bury chances.

Podz can play a heavier game, which is helpful and allows him to move up and down a little bit on the wings.

I honestly don't know if Kravtsov gets that chance. I've certainly seen enough.

This is a team that also has Podkolzin and Hoglander as young wingers looking for a spot and those guys are younger and have shown more at this level, and there isn't room for all of them on next year's team. And Bains is coming up fast.

He needed to do something in this 20 game run to justify another contract and he simply hasn't to this point.

I'm not sure why you lump Podkolzin in with 23/24 yr olds? He's 21 and in his sophomore slump year. It's pretty common for players at 21 and at his stage to have these kinds of struggles. He's shown he can score with 12 goals as a rookie and even that shot and foray last night was a reminder of how assertive he can be.

He's been saddled with a tweener C that has has almost zero playmaking ability has hit a wall and gets bodied out on the cycle and Krav who even though the relationship has been fun has been a disconnect in completing plays. Not exactly putting him in a position to excel although yes he has looked lost and needs to play better

His confidence on the puck is tough to watch but you also can see how effectively he's moving around the ice now and disruptive on the forecheck and backcheck. A little more measured approaches with better cardio better line mates and some confidence/poise in what to do when there is no play will make for a different player.

Krav unfortunately has blown his prime development years. He's not assertive enough to take advantage at this level and he's no longer a free waiver nor someone that is interested in playing in the AHL. Unless he impresses a lot more in 11 games he's probably not getting a contract or at least one he will probably want to sign.

Studnicka like Tocchet said needs to make firm puck decisions. He has good size and strength he clearly can skate well and has a pretty good shot (not a scorers shot) He just hasn't found the consistency to be an everyday NHLer. Still think he can be a 13/14 guy and liked him with Amen and Joshua when they weren't being taxed with 3rd line duties which is why he's sitting while they get a look at Krav and probably McDonagh before making decisions on those 2.

I doubt the 3C talks are a thing anymore he's just not good enough on the puck and smart enough in reads. If it ever happens it wont be anytime soon and they cant wait if they are serious about blowing draft assets for win now pieces

Agreed on everything here.

Studnicka is frustrating. There were shifts and games where you could see that this player does have the potential to be a solid bottom-6 guy where he skated well, good motor, broke up plays, has a bit of talent, looked like a Brandon Sutter type which wouldn't be the worst thing if he was getting $800k and playing on the wing. But he just hasn't been able to bring that motor consistently and still makes the sort of puck management errors of a young skill player which can't happen when you're trying to re-profile as a safe defensive guy to stick in the NHL. And then he got sick and lost 12 pounds, and he's (probably understandably) been absolute crap since then.

 

[m9]

I'm not sure why you lump Podkolzin in with 23/24 yr olds? He's 21 and in his sophomore slump year. It's pretty common for players at 21 and at his stage to have these kinds of struggles. He's shown he can score with 12 goals as a rookie and even that shot and foray last night was a reminder of how assertive he can be.

He's been saddled with a tweener C that has has almost zero playmaking ability has hit a wall and gets bodied out on the cycle and Krav who even though the relationship has been fun has been a disconnect in completing plays. Not exactly putting him in a position to excel although yes he has looked lost and needs to play better

His confidence on the puck is tough to watch but you also can see how effectively he's moving around the ice now and disruptive on the forecheck and backcheck. A little more measured approaches with better cardio better line mates and some confidence/poise in what to do when there is no play will make for a different player.

He's lumped in with that group because at this point he's not really an effective NHL player. I get why he is in the lineup, he's the top prospect in the organization. He 100% should be in the lineup and actually be given more of an opportunity. But I'm not going to pretend it's going well.

I don't buy the whole "sophomore slump" thing. There are lots of players who have a solid rookie year and then have a good 2nd year. It's just a myth for people who want to excuse away bad tracking. He isn't tracking well and this season has kind of been a disaster for him. He played himself out of the league, came back up and was given a top six role and played himself out of that. Now he's in the bottom six and instead of fighting for more opportunities he's basically just along for the ride and not showing all that much.

Krav unfortunately has blown his prime development years. He's not assertive enough to take advantage at this level and he's no longer a free waiver nor someone that is interested in playing in the AHL. Unless he impresses a lot more in 11 games he's probably not getting a contract or at least one he will probably want to sign.

Agreed.

Studnicka like Tocchet said needs to make firm puck decisions. He has good size and strength he clearly can skate well and has a pretty good shot (not a scorers shot) He just hasn't found the consistency to be an everyday NHLer. Still think he can be a 13/14 guy and liked him with Amen and Joshua when they weren't being taxed with 3rd line duties which is why he's sitting while they get a look at Krav and probably McDonagh before making decisions on those 2.

I doubt the 3C talks are a thing anymore he's just not good enough on the puck and smart enough in reads. If it ever happens it wont be anytime soon and they cant wait if they are serious about blowing draft assets for win now pieces

Studnicka is a tough one for me. I thought he looked noticeably weaker when he came back from his illness so I'm not sure how to evaluate him. He's under contract next year anyway so while the saying is getting a bit old, he really is a guy that needs a big off-season to show he belongs.

 

[VanillaCoke]

They weren't after Kravstov for months to trade for him to play 3 months, he's going to be here next year.

The rest of the bottom six, prospects, and depth players are dime a dozen role players every team has that barely move the needle.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

He's lumped in with that group because at this point he's not really an effective NHL player. I get why he is in the lineup, he's the top prospect in the organization. He 100% should be in the lineup and actually be given more of an opportunity. But I'm not going to pretend it's going well.

I don't buy the whole "sophomore slump" thing. There are lots of players who have a solid rookie year and then have a good 2nd year. It's just a myth for people who want to excuse away bad tracking. He isn't tracking well and this season has kind of been a disaster for him. He played himself out of the league, came back up and was given a top six role and played himself out of that. Now he's in the bottom six and instead of fighting for more opportunities he's basically just along for the ride and not showing all that much.



Agreed.



Studnicka is a tough one for me. I thought he looked noticeably weaker when he came back from his illness so I'm not sure how to evaluate him. He's under contract next year anyway so while the saying is getting a bit old, he really is a guy that needs a big off-season to show he belongs.

One comparable I think Kravstov has is Marcus Naslund, I know this is obviously a major long shot but at one point Naslund was essentially done, the right coach came along and something clicked. Stylistically it’s not a reach to see how Kravstov can find it and be able to provide himself a place in the top six, Nazzy was never an energy 2 way guy, just an absolutely dominant shooter and play maker

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

One comparable I think Kravstov has is Marcus Naslund, I know this is obviously a major long shot but at one point Naslund was essentially done, the right coach came along and something clicked. Stylistically it’s not a reach to see how Kravstov can find it and be able to provide himself a place in the top six, Nazzy was never an energy 2 way guy, just an absolutely dominant shooter and play maker

I think you have to look at something beyond special outliers, or actually seriously analyze shit.

Kravtsov was never a prolific scorer when he was with Traktor, never displayed any offensive flair in the NHL and is just kinda flailing:

Naslund was a prolific scorer in the SEL, did show some offensive potential in the NHL before he was traded:

Yes, he struggled (on a fairly deep Pens team that had Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Straka, etc.) and I'd argue wasn't really put into a position to succeed. Very similar to a lot of the square peg/round hole bullshit that was hallmark of the Benning era.

Burke's dealings have always been romanticized and I do think that this is one of them--Naslund was showing some offensive spark in the year he was traded; Burke wasn't taking a complete flyer on the guy--and thinking every draft pick has a Naslund-level redemption arc in them is fallacious thinking.

That said, I have a feeling that Hoglander is gonna be the odd man out. Will probably be part of a deal around the draft. No real rationale behind it, I just think that the org isn't really enamored with him.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Its kind of ridiculous to jump to rash conclusions on Kravtsov after almost a dozen games of limited ice time...Of course he'll be back next season...Otherwise, whats the point in properly investing in reclamation projects?

Its likely going to be a case of the player having to be deconstructed and built up again, and this just doesnt happen overnight.

I have this gut feeling that Kravtsov is going to bust out one game in the near future.. get a hat trick, and show us what he's really capable of...In order to be a good NHL player though, you have to be consistent..The guys that tease us, and cannot consistently deliver fall by the wayside.

 

[VanJack]

I see on the Trade Rumors thread, it's been reported via Dhaliwal that the Canucks are 'out' on Livingstone, but very much in the discussion with FA center Max Sasson.

I guess the only thing the Canucks need as much as d-men, is depth at center.

 

[Vector]

I see on the Trade Rumors thread, it's been reported via Dhaliwal that the Canucks are 'out' on Livingstone, but very much in the discussion with FA center Max Sasson.

I guess the only thing the Canucks need as much as d-men, is depth at center.

This is the trade rumours thread!



We’ll see. He’s a player I want badly and don’t see why this isn’t a prime destination for him but sometimes these guys get bad advise and/or make bad decisions.

 

[nucks88]

I see on the Trade Rumors thread, it's been reported via Dhaliwal that the Canucks are 'out' on Livingstone, but very much in the discussion with FA center Max Sasson.

I guess the only thing the Canucks need as much as d-men, is depth at center.

I don't know how to decipher such an awkward phrase as "not hearing something will come together in Vancouver", are they out or just not a lock?

 

[cc]

the news about Livingstone doesn't surprise me. High profile BC born NCAA players rarely choose the Canucks as their destination it seems. Stecher may have been the exception but I'm not sure he was that high profile

 

[Vector]

I don't know how to decipher such an awkward phrase as "not hearing something will come together in Vancouver", are they out or just not a lock?

His sources indicate that while the Canucks have talked and want him, Livingstone’s side hasn’t reciprocated that interest.

That’s how I interpret it.

 

[credulous]

livingstone could have gone pro last year but returned to mankato. i bet he signs with minnesota or columbus. maybe detroit. some guys just like the midwest lifestyle

 

[nucks88]

His sources indicate that while the Canucks have talked and want him, Livingstone’s side hasn’t reciprocated that interest.

That’s how I interpret it.

That's how I sort of see it too. I figure he is a smart guy who is weighing all his options and hopefully getting good advice. We will see.

 

[Cogburn]

McLeod+NJD's 2023 2nd for Garland. I'm probably overshooting Garland's value here, but it doesn't affect the actual on ice product for us. I would go a little lower on the pick if needed. I'd just rather including something of this value in the following defenseman trade. I also feel this isn't enough for Boeser, but I did think about it. I don't know what the increase would on our end, but have at 'er.

Zadina+Det's 2023 3rd for Myers after his bonus is paid. A bad contract for a busting player, signed to multiple years for a bad cap hit, and low salary, attached to a better player. Zadina would be shunted off as a reclamation project, and I think he'd even clear waivers...so that's a boon for Abbotsford until we can properly assess him.

Demelo and Dillon for Vancouver's conditional 2024 1st(deferred until 2025's 2nd if we miss the playoffs in the 2023/2024 season), NJD's 2023 2nd, NYR's 2023 4th, the rights to Dermott and Jasek (no value, just expiring contract spots and maybe a spot for Dermott). Yeah, I know. Looking at previous trades, I think this is something that could happen, and at least it fills two holes in our D, and dare I say makes it look at least passible. They're quick enough, collectively competent with the puck when they have to play it, and every scouting report says they need to play with offensive D. Guess what we have in abundance?

Jurmo, Pettersson and Lekkerimaki get max ELC's.

Kravtsov, Hoglander, Woo, Juulsen, Burroughs, McLeod, Keeper and Delia all get buriable (>1.125 million/season) for however many years they like, likely 1 year for Krav, Hog and McLeod.

Bear resigns for 3.5 million, and we go out and sign one of Compher, Rodrigues or Sundqvist (all right handed ~3rd line C) for 3 million for 2-3 years.

Buy out OEL, for a whopping 146,667 cap hit for this year, (2.346,667 next year, 4.766,667 the next two, and 2,126,667 the remaining 4 years). I wish him no ill will, and I don't want to think Tocchet is talking him up for nothing, but I just really don't see him earning that contract for the remaining years. Rip the bandaid off, and all that.

Kuz-Petey-Beau
DiG-Miller-Boeser
Krav-Compher-Pod
Aman-McLeod-Studnicka/Joshua
LTIR?: Pearson, Mikheyev

Hughes-Demelo
Dillon-Hronek
Rathbone-Bear
Wolanin, Burroughs

LTIR: Poolman
Demko, Silovs or one of the other guys if Silovs isn't getting games up here.

Capwise, we can support all three of Pearson, Poolman and Mikheyev if they either return, or remain on the injured reserve. This is assuming the low increase to 83.5 million as a ceiling for the cap. I'm assuming Mikheyev is back, but Poolman and Pearson are huge question marks from what I remember. When anyone going on the LTIR goes on the LTIR, we can use the cap space to eat contracts, be more flexible on returns for any player that becomes superfluous, or simply put feelers out for any positions we end up weaker in.

Everyone else that is waiver exempt starts in Abbotsford. When the shine starts coming off of our found money players, we can call up Hoglander, Zadina, McDonough, Raty, Karlsson, Lekkerimaki, Klimovich, Bloom and any of our deeper dive D to have a cup of coffee.

Does anyone have a line of thought they disagree with?