Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Will they stay or will they go, now?

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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Vector's NHL Transaction Tracker.

Some Important Off-Season Dates

Buyout Period: 48 hours after the SCF; players without NMCs must be placed on unconditional waivers 24 hours prior (another buyout period opens if a team has a player file for arbitration)
Team-Elected Arbitration: 48 hours after the SCF
Draft Day 01: June 28th
Draft Day 02: June 29th
Qualifying Offer Date: July 1st
Free Agency Opens: July 1st
Player-Elected Arbitration: July 5th
Young Stars Classic Tournament: Sep. 13th-16th

Click to read more...

 

[sting101]

not a fan of making mistakes less bad.....do it right and create the opportunity to get or keep a roster spot for someone who deserves it and fits. Role and personality.

I would much rather buyout Mikhayev and essentially be paying Joshua for 4.2-4.5 million over the first 2 yrs than Mikhayev who was not just a lack of confidence and hands but also a joke when it came time to be physical at 4.75 for 2 yrs. To me it's a no brainer unless the scouts think they can do both find another Joshua and buyout Mikhayev and free up cap

My question is????

If Myers Silovs Blueger and Hronek come in at 13million that leaves about 13 million considering a depth player from Abby is also on the roster at D or F and that's with Joshua for Mikhayev as i explained so....

Are you...
A - signing Zadorov DeBrusk with Joshua for Mikhayev + depth player (Pod/Bains/Raty/Lekk)
B - signing Guentzel Dillon with Joshua for Mikhayev + depth player (Pod/Bains/Raty/Lekk)
C - signing Guentzel Zadorov with 2 depth players (Pod/Bains/Raty/Lekk)

 

[Horvat1C]

Guentzel is a flat out more effective player than Lindholm, especially offensively.

I listed all the areas of our team where Lindholm would make an impact and some supporting reasons why. Can you do the same for Guentzel? Like I said he's a great player and would be a great fit with our top-6 but he simply can't impact as many areas of the game. Lindholm started slow with us but he was invaluable in the Playoffs, our team would take a considerable hit if he's not returning. Guentzel would need to bring a lot to be worth ~2M more than him.

Friedman on his last podcast raised a good point which is that staying as a 3C utility piece might not be enticing for Lindholm, which is fair enough.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800232665830047787

https://x.com/i/web/status/1747741499989602610

Hey, you see all that red? That is bad. You see all that blue? That is good.

Lindholm represents an incredible inefficiency in cost benefit. To pay him big and long is banking on a rebound that a smart managerial group should not even consider. Personally I don’t want Lindholm back at all.

What you should do instead is target someone that gives you 80% of Lindholm gives with less dollars. Targeting someone like Monahan would be a much smart allocation of funds. Good at faceoffs, can produce and help the top 6, much lower term and dollars.

When the conversation is about Lindholm at ~7M vs Guentzel at ~9M I think Lindholm is the more cost effective contract. If we decide we are not bringing him back then going with cheaper options is appealing. But if Lindholm wants to stay and the contract is reasonable then bringing him back is the best option for the team in my mind.

rather have someone who can score goals in critical moments than a shutdown center tbh. those guys can be find via trades later in the season. petey needs a partner in crime. hes already had two guys stapled to his line for 2 years. kuzmenko before being traded and mikheyev/lafftery

Lindholm just had a great Playoff performance where he scored some big goals. I haven't seen Guentzel do anything like that without Crosby. He was less of a factor in either of his series this year than Lindholm was for us. Is that worth 2M more?

You can trade for players who can play on your #1PP AND your #1PK? Who is available for trade that can do this for us? How much do they cost to acquire? Will they be as good as Lindholm? Players who fit as well as Lindholm did for us in such important positions are much more rare than most people realize and if you believe we can simply reach into the void and replace him at will then I'm going to need concrete examples.

Pettersson not having a designated linemate is the path the organization chose when the moved Kuzmenko. I thought he would be harder to replace than the team realized. I don't think the answer is throwing 9M at Guentzel.

 

[Lat]

not a fan of making mistakes less bad.....do it right and create the opportunity to get or keep a roster spot for someone who deserves it and fits. Role and personality.

I would much rather buyout Mikhayev and essentially be paying Joshua for 4.2-4.5 million over the first 2 yrs than Mikhayev who was not just a lack of confidence and hands but also a joke when it came time to be physical at 4.75 for 2 yrs. To me it's a no brainer unless the scouts think they can do both find another Joshua and buyout Mikhayev and free up cap

My question is????

If Myers Silovs Blueger and Hronek come in at 13million that leaves about 13 million considering a depth player from Abby is also on the roster at D or F and that's with Joshua for Mikhayev as i explained so....

Are you...
A - signing Zadorov DeBrusk with Joshua for Mikhayev + depth player (Pod/Bains/Raty/Lekk)
B - signing Guentzel Dillon with Joshua for Mikhayev + depth player (Pod/Bains/Raty/Lekk)
C - signing Guentzel Zadorov with 2 depth players (Pod/Bains/Raty/Lekk)

B

 

[Baby Pettersson]

That hurt to read lol.

 

[Vector]

Markstrom:
-Markstrom is not thrilled
-Flames need a certain return to make the deal
-Devils highly motivated to make the trade

Marner:
-intends to play out his contract

Ehlers:
-Jets are open to having conversations with other teams about him

Laine:
-mutual agreement to trade him
-agent has talked to the Blue Jackets
-wants a fresh start

Necas:
-5 to 7 teams have offered for him
-no teams have reached the Hurricanes price
-Jets, Blackhawks, Bruins, & Canadiens have inquired

 

[Vector]

Laine @ 50% for Mikheyev let's go!

 

[Bgav]

Markstrom:
-Markstrom is not thrilled
-Flames need a certain return to make the deal
-Devils highly motivated to make the trade

Marner:
-intends to play out his contract

Ehlers:
-Jets are open to having conversations with other teams about him

Laine:
-mutual agreement to trade him
-agent has talked to the Blue Jackets
-wants a fresh start

Necas:
-5 to 7 teams have offered for him
-no teams have reached the Hurricanes price
-Jets, Blackhawks, Bruins, & Hurricanes have inquired

Hurricanes inquired about necas...

 

[wonton15]

Guentzel Pettersson Laine
Duclair Miller Boeser

Cup

 

[Vector]

Hurricanes inquired about necas...

Whoops, that's supposed to the Canadiens.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

DeSmith Cole Lafferty are likely gone. Although Cole is an interesting guy and it wouldn't surprise me if he and the team circles back later. He's gonna be a day2 and beyond UFA anyway and has a good relationship with our management team. See what happens

If I recall, Cole said he would really like to come back and Allvin is open to it. My guess is he'll take a look at free agency to see if any other team offers bigger numbers because he's definitely looking at no more than 1.5M here. Even that is a bit rich for me but I wouldn't be upset with it either.

 

[sting101]

I listed all the areas of our team where Lindholm would make an impact and some supporting reasons why. Can you do the same for Guentzel? Like I said he's a great player and would be a great fit with our top-6 but he simply can't impact as many areas of the game. Lindholm started slow with us but he was invaluable in the Playoffs, our team would take a considerable hit if he's not returning. Guentzel would need to bring a lot to be worth ~2M more than him.

Friedman on his last podcast raised a good point which is that staying as a 3C utility piece might not be enticing for Lindholm, which is fair enough.



When the conversation is about Lindholm at ~7M vs Guentzel at ~9M I think Lindholm is the more cost effective contract. If we decide we are not bringing him back then going with cheaper options is appealing. But if Lindholm wants to stay and the contract is reasonable then bringing him back is the best option for the team in my mind.



Lindholm just had a great Playoff performance where he scored some big goals. I haven't seen Guentzel do anything like that without Crosby. He was less of a factor in either of his series this year than Lindholm was for us. Is that worth 2M more?

You can trade for players who can play on your #1PP AND your #1PK? Who is available for trade that can do this for us? How much do they cost to acquire? Will they be as good as Lindholm? Players who fit as well as Lindholm did for us in such important positions are much more rare than most people realize and if you believe we can simply reach into the void and replace him at will then I'm going to need concrete examples.

Pettersson not having a designated linemate is the path the organization chose when the moved Kuzmenko. I thought he would be harder to replace than the team realized. I don't think the answer is throwing 9M at Guentzel.

It's a reasonable argument but Lindholm is probably a 30-35th best C in the NHL coming off a poor contract year season which is a red flag while Guentzel is a top 8 -15 LW and top 25 best winger in the league.

Past data has shown that as players age past 32 they typically drop a tier and especially so if they are not PP1. Cs also have the 200ft task which can be especially difficult if the wheels fall off to keep providing scoring and play good defence

The argument would be is Guentzel at 33 riding shot gun with Pettersson and more likely on PP1 in the bumper providing more value than Lindholm as a 2/3C and the less likelihood he's still on PP1 at that stage?

Of course if Lindholm ages like Bergeron and Guentzel like Eriksson all is moot but the odds usually pay out for front line players vs 2nd tier guys

 

[sting101]

If I recall, Cole said he would really like to come back and Allvin is open to it. My guess is he'll take a look at free agency to see if any other team offers bigger numbers because he's definitely looking at no more than 1.5M here. Even that is a bit rich for me but I wouldn't be upset with it either.

yes i think that's exactly where he's at. He's a quality vet who will most likely get a 2.5 to 3 million dollar deal to play on a good team.

In the likelihood were still circling the drain and he's available due to other teams blowing their wads and it's only the difference of a couple k i could see him coming back to play for Tocchet Allvin and a chance to win vs playing for a loser.

He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would be OK in that kind of environment unless he resigns himself to just being a mentor and wants to be closer to home.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Yup, actually that is not true but good on you for mis-remembering.

Point to literally one example of someone comparing him to Tanev at the time.

The Tanev comparisons pre-dated his time with the Canucks in the bubble. Canucks' army guys were the ones pushing that narrative:

View attachment 881918

Well, apparently one person did.

I stand by what I said. Literally nobody lamented his loss.

I give players a lot of benefit of the doubt that it's a hard league and players are often a lot better than they first show.

I admit I was wrong on Chatfield, but I wrote him off as being hopelessly behind the play and unable to read the game at an NHL level.

Hindsight shows I was wrong, but with the same input I would make the same read now. He looked terrible for us. It's a testament to him (and possibly a good fit with Carolina's system shoutout to @bossram ) that he has made himself into a valued D. But he was completely irrelevant when he was with us.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

IIRC, Jim Benning compared him to Chris Tanev in the training camp following Tabev’s departure, and I think he got minutes following that training camp.

If only we had played Tanev (Chatfield) with Lidstrom (Juolevi), right? Lol (not laughing at you, but at Benning here).

 

[Quinton Byfield]

I happen to think Guentzel fits our needs better than Lindholm too, but hockey is far too complex and with far too many variables to reduce it to 'red bad, blue good'. These should be taken with a grain of salt unless they make sense considering context and match the eye-test of a learned watcher.

I feel the same way, but I feel like you cannot ignore such red flags when we’re talking about giving out such a large contract that will invariably have a profound impact on the future health of this club.

My eye test is Lindholm is a declining player that doesn’t fit our team needs. Slow skater when we need to get faster up front. Doesn’t drive play, in his prime, a very good complimentary player. 7+ for a non-star player with unproven chemistry with your top 6. Big gamble on Lindholm to rebound, with money we don’t have.

As for Guentzel, I wasn’t really trying to make a comparison, and I didn’t mention him in my post, aside from responding to that particular person why he thinks Guentzel isn’t worth 2M more than Lindholm.

Lindholm feels to me like he’ll be a Eriksson type mistake, and to see posters so gung-ho about him is insane to me. Slug footed, high iq, non-star complementary player on a decline.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Hurricanes inquired about necas...

Don't think a deal will get done.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Hurricanes inquired about necas...

Exactly the type of player they need speed, skill untapped potential.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Laine being out there is certainly interesting. I know he's had some real personal struggles, and hopefully he's past them. Would certainly be curious to see what he could do playing with a C like Petey for example.

Don't think his defensive game would be to Tocchet's liking, but he's still only 26. Time left to learn that all.

 

[Donuts]

Sign guentzel and marchessault, get it done Allvin. While you're at it, get b tkachuk as well.

Guentzel - EP - Marchessault
Tkachuk - Miller - Boeser

lol
ok fine trade EP for crosby too

 

[Lindgren]

Not a single one.

It's an example of the kind of little thing that routinely surprises me.

Just looking at the numbers, their ages/positions etc., they looked like worthwhile signings—more likely to hit than some of the "prospects" in the system.

 

[Vector]

It's an example of the kind of little thing that routinely surprises me.

Just looking at the numbers, their ages/positions etc., they looked like worthwhile signings—more likely to hit than some of the "prospects" in the system.

I'm not sure if they are technically able to sign now. They should be but, in the past, there's been strange grey zones for these prospects where they can't actually sign until July 1st. I could be misremembering, though.

 

[Lindgren]

I'm not sure if they are technically able to sign now. They should be but, in the past, there's been strange grey zones for these prospects where they can't actually sign until July 1st. I could be misremembering, though.

Well, what are we paying you for? Do you research and report back!

 

[Vector]

Well, what are we paying you for? Do you research and report back!

I tried! I couldn't find any information on it. Had similar issues with qualifying offer dates which seems like it will be July 1st but that seems wrong.

 

[brock hughes007]

Guentzel Pettersson Laine
Duclair Miller Boeser

Cup

Want no part of Laine.The guy is made of glass .Bigg pass for me

 

[sting101]

Laine is the very definition of swinging for the fences.

If he finds the right fit he could easily score 40plus goals but if he doesn't and continues to be injured and a defensively irresponsible player trading assets plus taking the full cap hit could blow up a teams chances at contending. And it's a huge gamble with Tocchet as we've seen where these things go with Kuzmenko without full buy in

I dont see the value in it given who we already have on the payroll and the risk but if Columbus did take Mikhayev it certainly mitigates it somewhat and could be a stroke of genius considering his age if he got his conditioning and health in order.

As i've been saying we need to find the next JT Miller.

A 24-26yr old who just hasn't found the right fit yet who takes off. I love the Necas potential especially being a player like Miller who has been kinda under appreciated and used due to role development curve and our needs especially with his skating being elite.