Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Let the negotiations through the media begin!

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[theguardianII]

That's not how that works.

Then why would almost bankrupt Coyotes carry 20 mil in LTIR players at one time? Contracts are insured. There might be a smaller cash outlay but for the most part the cap hit can/was used to make the cap minimum.

 

[credulous]

Then why would almost bankrupt Coyotes carry 20 mil in LTIR players at one time? Contracts are insured. There might be a smaller cash outlay but for the most part the cap hit can/was used to make the cap minimum.

the coyotes did it to get to the cap floor without actually paying out all their salaries

vegas and tampa cheated the cap by activating players off LTIR after the end of the season

those are the only two situations you can "cheat" the cap (really the first is the salary floor not the salary cap). just having players on LTIR isn't an advantage. it's just a way to replace players who are out long term

 

[theguardianII]

Unfortunately it isn't cheating but it does make it harder for less financially endowed teams to compete.
Sort of having a cap but not really.
The year the Canucks covid bubble team iced it was 12 million over the cap once all came off LTIR.

It helps teams on the brink of financial ruin. At one point just about half the Yote cap was LTIR. I think they had 30 mil in actual contracts they had to pay and the league gave them 14+ million in equalization.
They were a joke.

Now they are in Utah with a real owner the cap will go up.

 

[credulous]

Now they are in Utah with a real owner the cap will go up.

don't count on it. utah's new owner is a fake billionaire backed by the vulture capital fund silver lake. i dunno what the scam is yet but you can be assured that if silver lake is involved it's a scam

 

[arttk]

No, he costs nothing and they can use his LTIR status, just like Tampa, Vegas and other teams, including the Canucks.

Having him only lets us exceed cap by line 2.5. Without him we can accrue cap that will allow us to get a much higher cap player at deadline.

 

[theguardianII]

don't count on it. utah's new owner is a fake billionaire backed by the vulture capital fund silver lake. i dunno what the scam is yet but you can be assured that if silver lake is involved it's a scam

Supposedly they came up with the money already. The Arena is already being built.
10,000 fans time 41 games has to generate more that 4400 times 41.

 

[credulous]

Supposedly they came up with the money already. The Arena is already being built.
10,000 fans time 41 games has to generate more that 4400 times 41.

nope. they already cancelled plans for a new building. they're renovating the delta center and the plans include only 17k seats 5k of which are vision obstructed

More details of Utah NHL arena vision revealed • Utah News Dispatch

Ryan Smith revealed more details about what the arena that would host Utah's new NHL team. New plans won't include a new facility.

utahnewsdispatch.com

i've got a ton of personal experience with silver lake. the utah thing is going to be a huge disaster as long as they are involved

 

[Vector]

I wonder if the Canucks could do a Laine (50% retained) for Mikheyev swap. Some other pieces going around to make it work but both are negative value assets right now with two years remaining. Mikheyev, despite his offensive black-holeness, is widely regarded as a great teammate and hard worker that doesn't hurt the team defensively. Kind of the polar opposite of Laine.

 

[bossram]

I wonder if the Canucks could do a Laine (50% retained) for Mikheyev swap. Some other pieces going around to make it work but both are negative value assets right now with two years remaining. Mikheyev, despite his offensive black-holeness, is widely regarded as a great teammate and hard worker that doesn't hurt the team defensively. Kind of the polar opposite of Laine.

It's an interesting proposition. Obviously the hope is that Laine turns back into a top-six forward, though I'm not sure the likelihood of that at this point, or if he will be able to stick in Tocc's system or get Kuzmeko'd.

Still I think something around that is an interesting question and perhaps a decent gamble for VAN, if they can't disappear Mikheyev and fail to add another top-six player. The cap burden is really on CBJ though, they'd effectively be paying $8.65M for Mikheyev, which could be a sticking point.

 

[brock hughes007]

5 trade targets per Canucks Army:

5 players the Canucks could trade for from Daily Faceoff’s NHL Trade Targets board

<em>This article is brought to you by bet365!</em> Earlier this wee...

canucksarmy.com

Most have already been discussed and no particular order:

1. Martin Necas
2. Nikolaj Ehlers
3. Arthur Kaliyev
4. Morgan Frost
5. Trevor Zegras

I like Kaliyev and Frost as buylow options for fairly cheap given their potential upside.

Big no on Zegras.

Big no on all of them,,sign Dakota and Big Z,,first priority.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I wonder if the Canucks could do a Laine (50% retained) for Mikheyev swap. Some other pieces going around to make it work but both are negative value assets right now with two years remaining. Mikheyev, despite his offensive black-holeness, is widely regarded as a great teammate and hard worker that doesn't hurt the team defensively. Kind of the polar opposite of Laine.

The problem is Laine (50%) is not a negative asset. He would probably garner some interest if the Blue Jacket were willing to retain. Especially when you consider the free agent market. I would much rather have Laine @ $4.35 million for 2 years, than most of the free agents wingers on the market. There is very little risk and could end being a high reward.

 

[Vector]

It's an interesting proposition. Obviously the hope is that Laine turns back into a top-six forward, though I'm not sure the likelihood of that at this point, or if he will be able to stick in Tocc's system or get Kuzmeko'd.

Still I think something around that is an interesting question and perhaps a decent gamble for VAN, if they can't disappear Mikheyev and fail to add another top-six player. The cap burden is really on CBJ though, they'd effectively be paying $8.65M for Mikheyev, which could be a sticking point.

Yeah, that’s where I keep getting hung up on it too. Canucks would have to send something back to, prospect or draft picks, as compensation. Mikheyev + Laine at 50% is actually more of a financial commitment than just Laine for the Blue Jackets since Mikheyev is owed 9.3m and Laine is 18.2m.

There might be something there or with a different distressed asset.

 

[Vector]

The problem is Laine (50%) is not a negative asset. He would probably garner some interest if the Blue Jacket were willing to retain. Especially when you consider the free agent market. I would much rather have Laine @ $4.35 million for 2 years, than most of the free agents wingers on in the market. There is very little risk and could end being a high reward.

I think it would be split amongst fans. I know that some here wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Certainly many NHL teams would feel the same. He's run himself out of two organizations, moped around on the ice, not committed defensively, saw his production crater, frequently injured, and now has mental health struggles. He does seem like the kind of player Colorado or the Hurricanes would target.

It's pure speculation and a day dream on my part. Even if this specific player doesn't work, that's probably the type of transaction that the Canucks would be exploring with Mikheyev. We saw Rutherford do it a few times with the Penguins: ex: Hagelin for Pearson, Pearson for Gudbranson, Gudbranson for bag of pucks.

 

[MS]

Our defining trait that led to our success last year was our system and our work ethic and the plan from the coaching staff and I think we need to try to identify players who will fit into that system more than we need to be putting together lists of Kuzmenko-type projects who likely won't.

 

[StickShift]

Our defining trait that led to our success last year was our system and our work ethic and the plan from the coaching staff and I think we need to try to identify players who will fit into that system more than we need to be putting together lists of Kuzmenko-type projects who likely won't.

Part of the reason why a player like Necas appeals to me is that we know he can play in a systems environment. If you can buy-in with Brind’Amour you can probably buy-in with Tocchet.

 

[Vector]

Our defining trait that led to our success last year was our system and our work ethic and the plan from the coaching staff and I think we need to try to identify players who will fit into that system more than we need to be putting together lists of Kuzmenko-type projects who likely won't.

The caveat with me suggesting Laine is that management and coaching staff are confident they can get him to fit in. It's one of the things that we as fans just don't have. Similar to Rutherford acquiring Kessel and Tocchet's legend of the "Kessel Whisperer" was born. I'm not expecting it and I don't think they would actually pursue it but a bad contract swap might be the only way they get rid of Mikheyev. Especially given their public reticence to giving up high value assets in order to get out of undesirable contracts.

 

[StickShift]

don't count on it. utah's new owner is a fake billionaire backed by the vulture capital fund silver lake. i dunno what the scam is yet but you can be assured that if silver lake is involved it's a scam

He sold Qualtrics to SAP for $8 billion like a decade ago. It’s SAP that has since sold to Silver Lake.

I think he made his fortune back then, now he’s just in a gravy train/figure head type role with Qualtrics.

 

[Regal]

Part of the reason why a player like Necas appeals to me is that we know he can play in a systems environment. If you can buy-in with Brind’Amour you can probably buy-in with Tocchet.

He’s shown he can fit it fairly well, but it might also be the case that one of the reasons he’s apparently available is that he and/or the coaching staff don’t think it’s the best fit for maximizing his skillset

 

[Nick Lang]

I've never been on the "move Garland" train. I don't think his play has changed much over his Canucks tenure. He's been a play-driving, 1st line ES rate-scoring winger for pretty much his career. He is easily a top-six calibre forward, and the Canucks need to add more of those, not subtract.

I don't really get the bolded though. I've said in many other posts, people are hung up on just the literal order of the line chart, and not paying attention to the actual quality of the players in determining who is a "top-six forward".

If Garland drives play, keeps scoring at his current ES rate, plays top-six ice-time (as he has in the regular season and playoffs)....then for all intents and purposes, he is a top-six forward regardless of which line his name appears on on the line chart.

When the Pens were winning Cups, no one was saying Kessel is a third-line player because he was on the HBK "third line". Tampa Bay won Cups with Coleman and Gourde playing on the "third line" (yet they were 1st line ES rate scorers and played more ES ice time than their "second line").

It just seems like a broken line-up that will have trouble competing with the best. So you have Garland and Joshua actually playing on the second line (nominal 3rd) and Petterson is now an $11.6 mil center on the real third line. Very disjointed way to have your best players on separate lines. Good players need good players to play with. I'm not sure why a team lacking top 6 options would put top 6 players in the bottom 6. Tampa and Pittsburgh both had other options for the top 6 and proved it by winning Cups.

 

[credulous]

He sold Qualtrics to SAP for $8 billion like a decade ago. It’s SAP that has since sold to Silver Lake.

I think he made his fortune back then, now he’s just in a gravy train/figure head type role with Qualtrics.

SAP bought qualtrics for 8 bil but ryan smith owned less than 15% at that point. most of the money went to accel (who lead their series A, B and C) and sequoia (who co-led their series A)

his wealth is all on paper and it's currently mostly tied up in qualtrics and entrata which are both majority owned by silver lake. most of the rest comes from his share of the jazz. even the billionaire ball washers at forbes think he's only worth ~2 bil but i guarantee you he couldn't get anywhere close to that liquid

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I wonder if the Canucks could do a Laine (50% retained) for Mikheyev swap. Some other pieces going around to make it work but both are negative value assets right now with two years remaining. Mikheyev, despite his offensive black-holeness, is widely regarded as a great teammate and hard worker that doesn't hurt the team defensively. Kind of the polar opposite of Laine.

Think CBJ can get a better deal elsewhere.

 

[bossram]

It just seems like a broken line-up that will have trouble competing with the best. So you have Garland and Joshua actually playing on the second line (nominal 3rd) and Petterson is now an $11.6 mil center on the real third line. Very disjointed way to have your best players on separate lines. Good players need good players to play with. I'm not sure why a team lacking top 6 options would put top 6 players in the bottom 6. Tampa and Pittsburgh both had other options for the top 6 and proved it by winning Cups.

You're not really arguing against anything I said. The issue is that they need to add a top-six winger to the current group (i.e. someone to play with Petey). You said TB and PIT both had other options for the top-six, that allowed them to have good players (nominally) lower in the lineup. Yes, that is what I'm asking for.

And there would be no issue about Petey getting top-six ice time. Even with the current alignment, he was consistently in the top-three of Canucks' forward ice time. He gets big minutes on the PP and some PK usage. He's moved into a "loaded" line in trailing situations, and used as the second (or third) center on the ice in late-game defensive situations.

 

[Vector]

Think CBJ can get a better deal elsewhere.

I think so too but it’s the “throw shit at the wall” part of the off-season and the Blue Jackets are in the weirdest position I’ve seen in a very long time.

 

[Nick Lang]

You're not really arguing against anything I said. The issue is that they need to add a top-six winger to the current group (i.e. someone to play with Petey). You said TB and PIT both had other options for the top-six, that allowed them to have good players (nominally) lower in the lineup. Yes, that is what I'm asking for.

And there would be no issue about Petey getting top-six ice time. Even with the current alignment, he was consistently in the top-three of Canucks' forward ice time. He gets big minutes on the PP and some PK usage. He's moved into a "loaded" line in trailing situations, and used as the second (or third) center on the ice in late-game defensive situations.

Ah yes. I don't think we're actually arguing either as I was never one who suggested Garland didn't have good numbers, or top 6 production or whatever. We lack money and assets though so we may not be able to just add players like Pitt, and TB. Unless we do a TB and trade our 2025 and 2026 1st, but even then the money is simply going to be tight after re-doing the defence.

I think most people are saying do you want Garland and say Debrusk/Teravainen/Tarasenko or a Guentzel and Carrick/Girgensons. People are more concerned we're going to have to roll out Petey with Mik and Hogs again more than anything. I wouldn't be too comfortable with that.

 

[bossram]

Ah yes. I don't think we're actually arguing either as I was never one who suggested Garland didn't have good numbers, or top 6 production or whatever. We lack money and assets though so we may not be able to just add players like Pitt, and TB. Unless we do a TB and trade our 2025 and 2026 1st, but even then the money is simply going to be tight after re-doing the defence.

I think most people are saying do you want Garland and say Debrusk/Teravainen/Tarasenko or a Guentzel and Carrick/Girgensons. People are more concerned we're going to have to roll out Petey with Mik and Hogs again more than anything. I wouldn't be too comfortable with that.

Regarding the bolded, yeah, that is an open question. It really does depend on the player(s) in question and the contracts attached. I'm just saying that several others (not you) are not accurately evaluating the magnitude of loss if you subtract Garland. He is not a "third liner" in any meaningful sense, as some are using to justify dumping him.

I think they can accomplish pretty much all of their offseason needs if they can dump Mikheyev. Perhaps easier said than done. That's a real big part of the issue, and is a signing Allvin never should have made. He's occupying cap space that is needed on an impact player.

In my roster projections, it's the blueline where I think the Canucks will have to be efficient, and have the remaining cap space allocated more toward the forward group.