Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Let the negotiations through the media begin!

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[Vector]

Would love for them to go after Kent Johnson

Prefer their Russians. Wouldn’t be opposed to Johnson but I don’t think they’d get much value out of him this season given the development work that needs to get done.

 

[StickShift]

Notice that example you use, the trend lines shows improvement over time and you can't just hand wave a full season worth of points away.
There are a lot of red flags with KK, one of the flag is he went like PPG for the 1st 14 games and then put up 13 points for the remaining 65 games. Another flag is that his TOI dropped to the point he was playing 8-11 minutes for 9/11 playoff games meaning the coach didn't trust him. It's not like that is just a playoff thing, his TOI dropped a lot and he played between 9-11 minutes for a good portion of the season. Another flag is he doesn't kill penalties, he spent 10 minutes on the PK for the whole of last season.
4.8M for a left shot center that doesn't PK and might put up 40 points if you put him on the PP is not a efficient contract. I didn't realize that he didn't PK, so with that in mind, he needs to be hitting 50-60 points in order to really justify his usage considering how limited he is as a center.


I think i was over reacting to his playoff performance. At the very least, Lindholm was one of the reason our playoff PK was like 80+% despite facing the top 2 PP units in Edmonton and Nashville. He provides elite defense and he put up 10 points in 13 playoff games.

If we get KK, we essentially have 1 center that can't PK. With Lindholm, all our centers can PK and we can distribute the minutes a role better.
With Lindholm, we can play him as the matchup center, with KK, you can only play him against soft matchups.
With Lindholm, you can slot him in the top6 whenever there is an injury and he has a history of putting up points when paired with good wingers. With KK, there is no history of him being able to play up the lineup.

Literally the only reason to get KK is to get rid of Mik and the buyout for KK is negligible compared to Mik.

RE: Kotkaniemi

I think you raise good points about some concerning trends in his stats—but it’s also those “buy low” players that have the potential to become the most substantial trade wins.

Not saying he is the right fit for Vancouver. I personally would prefer they spend that cap in other areas. But I understand why they or another team might be interested in that bet.

 

[Hansen]

Necas isn't worth Hronek so that deals dead

Top 6 wingers <<< Top Pairing RHD

 

[arttk]

RE: Kotkaniemi

I think you raise good points about some concerning trends in his stats—but it’s also those “buy low” players that have the potential to become the most substantial trade wins.

Not saying he is the right fit for Vancouver. I personally would prefer they spend that cap in other areas. But I understand why they or another team might be interested in that bet.

Yeah I think it’s a reasonable risk if the acquisition cost is along the lines of f*** you pay me to take him on.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Hronek for Lambert + Barron

 

[Wisp]

-spends the first 6 minutes defending Gazdic, which, of course he would

I wouldn't call it a defense. Was pretty balanced as he could be with a co-worker with an acknowledgement that he effed up and this can't happen.

 

[Vector]

I wouldn't call it a defense. Was pretty balanced as he could be with a co-worker with an acknowledgement that he effed up and this can't happen.

I mean, I would and did but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong with what he said. It’s far more implicit in saying Gazdic screwed up, though.

Honestly, I don’t really care about the Gazdic thing have an extremely low opinion of most Canucks fans.

 

[Jerry the great]

He has been in the NHL for 6 years across 2 teams and 3 coaches? He played a total of 2.6 minutes worth of PK in 3 season for Montreal and 20ish minutes for Carolina over 3. There is enough sample size to say, yeah he probably really incompetent at PK and most likely won't be a PKer and yeah there 6 seasons is enough track record to make that future prediction.

So he's basically a PP/ES only center which is fine if he is actually good at putting up production and playing defensive hockey at ES. Problem is if a player has ZERO PK utility, especially a center, then you are paying for above average ES play. There is nothing that shows he is an above average ES point producer and his deployment suggests he is also not suitable for a defensive shut down role.

You need to stop using Reinhart and Lindholm as comparables. Reinhart is a 5x 20 goal scorer, 3x 30 goal scorer and a 1 time 50 goal scorer. He scored 20 goals basically from his 1st season and has consistently been scoring ever since. Lindholm also since he joined the league, has played a lot of minutes, and is consistent with his point production. They are both players that played very consistently before breaking out. There is zero signs that KK is on the verge of breaking out. The only thing he has going for him is he was a high pick.

To clarify, i was not comparing Kotkaniemi's overall game to Reinhart's overall game. I was pointing out (or so i thought) that Reinhart did not kill penalties at all in Buffalo and rarely in his first year in Flordia either. It was really only something that he started doing effectively over the last two seasons. The point here is that even though his defensive game wasn't a real strong suit in his first 7 pro seasons, it eventually developed well and he's now a pretty solid 200 foot player. Some would probably say that committing to a 200 foot game and playing the PK really helped fully develop his offensive/PP game as well.

This idea that if a young centre isn't killing penalties by the time he's 23 he never will is just stupid.

Equally stupid is the idea that players don't develop in an imperfectly non linear fashion and if they aren't crushing it consistently by the time they're 21/2/3 they never will (Bill Zito would f***ing love for people to keep thinking that though) . Look at JT Miller (or Elias Lindholm or Sam Reinhart or Gustav Forsling or Carter Verhaeghe or literally hundreds of other players who's first...second...or third teams gave up them too early) as a pretty good example of that.

The Canucks have been linked to Kotkaniemi a couple time now IIRC. Depending on the cost, I absolutely get why they'd make a move. the asymmetry of the risk reward profile is heavily skewed towards the upside here. The floor is a 30-40 point 3C with good size and mobility who's possibly/probably skilled enough to eventually play 2C.

 

[Vector]

The issue with Kotkaniemi is his cap hit. For where the Canucks are at, with his cap hit he better be a me to do something that stands out right now. Currently, he doesn’t have a defining trait and ended up being their 4th line centre. Maybe he can develop in the future but as a team that needs to maximize cap dollars, he doesn’t help.

 

[bossram]

Necas isn't worth Hronek so that deals dead

Top 6 wingers <<< Top Pairing RHD

I mean, like I said repeatedly, and that seems to be confirmed, there was never a basis for a Hronek-Necas deal. Carolina doesn't want Hronek.

The issue with Kotkaniemi is his cap hit. For where the Canucks are at, with his cap hit he better be a me to do something that stands out right now. Currently, he doesn’t have a defining trait and ended up being their 4th line centre. Maybe he can develop in the future but as a team that needs to maximize cap dollars, he doesn’t help.

I also don't get the KK talk. Why do the Canucks need another 5v5 Teddy Blueger at 2.5x the price? Just bring back Blueger.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I mean, I would and did but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong with what he said. It’s far more implicit in saying Gazdic screwed up, though.

Honestly, I don’t really care about the Gazdic thing have an extremely low opinion of most Canucks fans.

Me neither.

We have some of the worst casual fans in pro-sports. Fortunately they stay far away from this forum and settle into their echo chambers.

 

[TruGr1t]

Trevor Zegras is apparently still available...

 

[Ninjadude]

Just saw a rumor on Canucks Daily that we are in on Necas + a 3rd for Hronek, Hogs, D-Petey and the 2025 1st. That's a huge overpayment in my opinion.

 

[Nopefully]

Trevor Zegras is apparently still available...

Isn't he like one of the worst defensive forwards in the league? Probably wouldn't fit Tocchet's M.O.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Just saw a rumor on Canucks Daily that we are in on Necas + a 3rd for Hronek, Hogs, D-Petey and the 2025 1st. That's a huge overpayment in my opinion.

Zero chance this happens.

Wouldn’t even do Necas for Hronek straight up.

 

[Vector]

Trevor Zegras is apparently still available...

I think Tocchet would actually kill him. Although apparently he did commit to play defence last season so maybe there's something there but there's really no reason for the Ducks to trade him unless a team actually gives up value.

 

[Vector]

Just saw a rumor on Canucks Daily that we are in on Necas + a 3rd for Hronek, Hogs, D-Petey and the 2025 1st. That's a huge overpayment in my opinion.

The "rumour" is from a random tweet.



All they are doing is name dropping Friedman, Seravalli, and Dhaliwal then dropping this awful proposal without mentioning that it comes from this random tweet.

This isn't even a rumour.

 

[TruGr1t]

I think Tocchet would actually kill him. Although apparently he did commit to play defence last season so maybe there's something there but there's really no reason for the Ducks to trade him unless a team actually gives up value.

I don't think it's likely, nor have the Canucks been mentioned around him at all, but I'd be interested to know the cost. He does have a fairly manageable cap hit for two more years. Given the Canucks need, I'd consider most avenues to add more top-six scoring without blowing the cap out.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Trevor Zegras is apparently still available...

I would do something around Vatrano and Fowler but f*** Zegras.

 

[Vector]

Me neither.

We have some of the worst casual fans in pro-sports. Fortunately they stay far away from this forum and settle into their echo chambers.

It goes beyond casual fans too. We have some really really bad dedicated fans. Lots have really no idea what they are watching but are extremely confident in their shitty opinions and you need to hear it. Think they are incredibly smart and clever. Hence Canucks' twitter.

 

[arttk]

To clarify, i was not comparing Kotkaniemi's overall game to Reinhart's overall game. I was pointing out (or so i thought) that Reinhart did not kill penalties at all in Buffalo and rarely in his first year in Flordia either. It was really only something that he started doing effectively over the last two seasons. The point here is that even though his defensive game wasn't a real strong suit in his first 7 pro seasons, it eventually developed well and he's now a pretty solid 200 foot player. Some would probably say that committing to a 200 foot game and playing the PK really helped fully develop his offensive/PP game as well.

This idea that if a young centre isn't killing penalties by the time he's 23 he never will is just stupid.

Equally stupid is the idea that players don't develop in an imperfectly non linear fashion and if they aren't crushing it consistently by the time they're 21/2/3 they never will (Bill Zito would f***ing love for people to keep thinking that though) . Look at JT Miller (or Elias Lindholm or Sam Reinhart or Gustav Forsling or Carter Verhaeghe or literally hundreds of other players who's first...second...or third teams gave up them too early) as a pretty good example of that.

The Canucks have been linked to Kotkaniemi a couple time now IIRC. Depending on the cost, I absolutely get why they'd make a move. the asymmetry of the risk reward profile is heavily skewed towards the upside here. The floor is a 30-40 point 3C with good size and mobility who's possibly/probably skilled enough to eventually play 2C.

Reinhart put up top6 numbers from his rookie season. Yes the player can put up offense then it’s fine that the defensive side is not as good.
KK is paid like a borderline top6 guy without the top 6 offense and without the defensive game required from a 3rd C. So basically he doesn’t give you anything you would want from a 2C or a 3C and the results is that he got 4th line minutes this season.

He hasn’t been trusted to PK at all like 7 years into the league. Could he reinvent his game to be a defensive center? Sure anything can happen but it’s pretty damn unlikely because it’s not like only 1 coach decided he isn’t fit for PK.

The problem with KK is that even if he is better defensively now compared to earlier, that’s like baseline expectation stuff. His offensive game from the looks of it has barely improved. It’s fine if he is cheap but he’s not. It’s risky to have a 4.8M center that doesn’t give you anything you want from a 2C or a 3C. The only thing good about his contract is the buyout is cheap and maybe that’s a way for us to dump Mik’s contract.

 

[Jerry the great]

The issue with Kotkaniemi is his cap hit. For where the Canucks are at, with his cap hit he better be a me to do something that stands out right now. Currently, he doesn’t have a defining trait and ended up being their 4th line centre. Maybe he can develop in the future but as a team that needs to maximize cap dollars, he doesn’t help.

a few days ago, someone suggested a Mikheyev for Kotkaniemi swap. I suggested if that was the cost it was a no brainer. Adding his Cap hit without subtracting something probably doesn't work though....unless there's a JT Miller like change of scenery bump., and that's not something i'd bet on happening out of the gate.

 

[Vector]

a few days ago, someone suggested a Mikheyev for Kotkaniemi swap. I suggested if that was the cost it was a no brainer. Adding his Cap hit without subtracting something probably doesn't work though....unless there's a JT Miller like change of scenery bump., and that's not something i'd bet on happening out of the gate.

Yeah, that’s been floated but I don’t think there’s any way Carolina goes for it unless the Canucks are adding. From the Hurricanes perspective at least.

 

[arttk]

Yeah, that’s been floated but I don’t think there’s any way Carolina goes for it unless the Canucks are adding. From the Hurricanes perspective at least.

I mean Mik was not great but he was still better than KK.

 

[Vector]

I mean Mik was not great but he was still better than KK.

It’s the Hurricanes we’re talking about here. They don’t do any deals unless it’s a clear win for them.

The Bear trade is the only one I look at and think the Canucks came out ahead. We know they kept asking for Hoglander too.