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[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[theguardianII]

Carolina has already refused to give up Nikishin in any deal.

that is what you know or what they have stated?

KK was already a project when Waddell offersheeted. Even though he's still relatively young the progress hasn't been there despite the massive investment on him. Taking him in is losing 1M more in cap space for the next God knows how many seasons as a buyout would be guaranteed. Necas wouldn't come in much cheaper than EP, probably 7-8M per year long term. Despite Petey's struggles he's still a PPG player in the regular season at his wobbliest, which Necas has never been able to achieve and didn't come close this season. We save maybe 3M in cap space but clearly downgrade upfront, so we'd need to spend at least that much to make up the difference anyways.

We aren't going to get an EANHL trade for Hronek. Every GM knows he'll command a high salary. We may get good value but it'll be plenty of salary coming back. Very unlikely we can get cap relief by moving him out without taking on unproven prospects as the centerpiece(s) and if we do our right side will be a joke next season.

7-8 mil is still almost 4 to 5 mil less.
EP as a point per game player and Hughes playing lights out with Miller's points. How well did that go until this year? No playoffs

And to boot this year Miller had less points, Hughes only 16 more than last year and EP was on a 64 point pace from January 13 on, his last 40 games and only 6 pts in 13 games of the playoffs. The date of the rumored Carolina trade and his signing. he went into the dumpster scoring right after that. No 100 point players but 13 games deep in the real season.

So his impressive points didn't really help as much until the defence was reconstructed, which helped more.

As far as Hronek and what is expected he will command, there are quite a few teams than can take on a 8 mil cap hit, Utah actually needs a few big cap hits and both Columbus and Utah need to impress their markets in a positive way. Both have lots of too young or too many good prospects to help now. This adds to Hronek's value even if there is arbitration and then a trade.
But most of these teams can talk to his agent now to get an idea of how he would fit, even if he an RFA, the offer sheet route is open that is why they can talk to his agent.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

that is what you know or what they have stated?

7-8 mil is still almost 4 to 5 mil less.
EP as a point per game player and Hughes playing lights out with Miller's points. How well did that go until this year? No playoffs

And to boot this year Miller had less points, Hughes only 16 more than last year and EP was on a 64 point pace from January 13 on, his last 40 games and only 6 pts in 13 games of the playoffs. The date of the rumored Carolina trade and his signing. he went into the dumpster scoring right after that. No 100 point players but 13 games deep in the real season.

So his impressive points didn't really help as much until the defence was reconstructed, which helped more.

As far as Hronek and what is expected he will command, there are quite a few teams than can take on a 8 mil cap hit, Utah actually needs a few big cap hits and both Columbus and Utah need to impress their markets in a positive way. Both have lots of too young or too many good prospects to help now. This adds to Hronek's value even if there is arbitration and then a trade.
But most of these teams can talk to his agent now to get an idea of how he would fit, even if he an RFA, the offer sheet route is open that is why they can talk to his agent.

Been reported a few times.

He’s untouchable for them.

 

[arttk]

How much money?

They spent right around 28 mil on defence last year. Is 26 million too much this year?

To get quality back quality has to be traded. Garland for Necas?

I think if we spend 7-7.5M on Hronek, we would be pretty limited to what we can get for the 3dlrd paring

Hughes Hronek 15ishM
Soucy Myers - 6.5M
Dillon - Tanev 8M
Around 29.5M

Hughes - Tanev. 13M
Soucy Myers - 6.5M
Dillon - Zadorov 7M
26.5M

I think we need to spend more money on the top6 and don’t think we can afford to spend as much on D compared to last year.

 

[oceanchild]

Anybody else really excited with what we are going to do?
Especially knowing its Jim Rutherford, You just know the guy is going to be cooking, good or bad lol

It’s kind of like it’s coming up on Christmas and the tree is up and the lights are on, but no presents are under the tree yet. But, in a twist of events, dad went shopping this year instead of mom and you have no idea what is about to happen, but it’s going to be epic on way or another. Also, you heard dad rummaging through the garage and throwing some stuff in the back of the truck and you have no idea what that means, but you are about to find out!

Haha, bring me chaos !

 

[oceanchild]

Hell no to Kotkaniemi would rather eat the Mikhayev contract in full buyout.

Necas is going to be better than Horvat...he's just coming into his prime years while Horvat is a bad skater about to slide from his peaks of 65-70pts. The only thing better about Bo is he's heavy and has a snipe but every other aspect skating skill vision play driving and even size/reach is in favour of Necas. If they can pry him that would be massive for us.

He's the JTMiller of Tampa that is stuck behind Aho/Svech/Guentzel and others. Talk about a massive win for us being able to keep pace with the fastest teams and still having a incredible talented core if they can get him

If they insist on Hoglander than Morrow has to be part of it. I like Hronek but with Willander ITS and a chance to sign a shut down guy this summer and then go after Theodore Larsson next summer its a no brainer for me

I would do a garland, Mikheyev, Hoglander trade for KK, Necas, Morrow and a pick (first or second ?) I like morrow as a prospect and want us to add more ad D Depth to the pool and as good as Garland was you trade when value is high and it’s to much for a third line winger.

I think Hronek gets traded, I have no idea to which team. I think he is going to ask to much and this management team don’t play.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Looking forward to this offseason and the squad we have next year.

I have confidence that this group will be motivated to prove last season wasn’t a fluke and take another step forward. With Edmonton in the finals they will know how close they were from doing something special while each stage gets that much harder.

Call it the Revenge Tour if you will lol

 

[David71]

dont want anything to do with tanev. guy cant even stay healthy. lets say he signs with van and gets hurt at some point. whose playing with hughes? myers? zadorov? if he signs. i'll pass on 35year old tanev. one block shot=to the infirmary. stop digging to the past jsut because hes the "perfect partner for hughes". he needs a physical stay at home shutdown defender who can be defensively responsible and so hughes can play his game. hughes pesece would be better

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I would do a garland, Mikheyev, Hoglander trade for KK, Necas, Morrow and a pick (first or second ?) I like morrow as a prospect and want us to add more ad D Depth to the pool and as good as Garland was you trade when value is high and it’s to much for a third line winger.

I think Hronek gets traded, I have no idea to which team. I think he is going to ask to much and this management team don’t play.

Why would Carolina though? The best player in that package is a middle six winger they have a bunch of. Meanwhile, they're giving up a top six forward and arguably their best defense prospect while taking on the albatross that is Mikheyev.

They aren't looking to dump KK. His buyout is only 835k. Sure, it's over an eleven year span but that's chump change. It's certainly a better alternative than eating nearly 5M for Mikheyev over the next two years.

 

[oceanchild]

Why would Carolina though? The best player in that package is a middle six winger they have a bunch of. Meanwhile, they're giving up a top six forward and arguably their best defense prospect while taking on the albatross that is Mikheyev.

They aren't looking to dump KK. His buyout is only 835k. Sure, it's over an eleven year span but that's chump change. It's certainly a better alternative than eating nearly 5M for Mikheyev over the next two years.

Garland and Hoglander fit the Carolina mold to a T. Mikheyev is a solid defensive forward and has reasonable utility and a shorter contract. I’m not sure they want to do a buy out, not a good look after how they acquired him. If you mix him into a package that obscures his true value it is an easier conversation (although with a change in mgmt this might not be an issue). It is being reported that Necas has 3rd/4th Dman value.i have no idea, but keep hearing Hronek has less value because he is an RFA and needs to sign, so I think the logic would extend here. I value both Garland and Hoglander pretty high and think that Carolina will as well. Maybe no pick, but I would want Morrow (understanding that it may be a bridge to far).

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

I would much rather watch the younger futility of Kotkaniemi than the older futility of Mikheyev or Blueger so if they throw in Kotkaniemi in as a negative contract and take back Mikheylev, I would be OK with that.

 

[Nick Lang]

Garland and Hoglander fit the Carolina mold to a T. Mikheyev is a solid defensive forward and has reasonable utility and a shorter contract. I’m not sure they want to do a buy out, not a good look after how they acquired him. If you mix him into a package that obscures his true value it is an easier conversation (although with a change in mgmt this might not be an issue). It is being reported that Necas has 3rd/4th Dman value.i have no idea, but keep hearing Hronek has less value because he is an RFA and needs to sign, so I think the logic would extend here. I value both Garland and Hoglander pretty high and think that Carolina will as well. Maybe no pick, but I would want Morrow (understanding that it may be a bridge to far).

I wish these guys would consider retaining. Even just one smartly placed. Mik at 25 or 50% covers the OEL hit.

 

[Canucks LB]

I’m really excited

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Kotkaniemi won't be moved as a cap dump - he's a rounding-error buyout for the next 3 summers, there's no reason to pay a price to get him off hte books.

 

[alternate]

Kotkaniemi won't be moved as a cap dump - he's a rounding-error buyout for the next 3 summers, there's no reason to pay a price to get him off hte books.

Still costs $10m or whatever it is not to play for the team. Carolina isn't exactly known for being frivolous with their funds. Certainly possible they'd rather turn that $10m into a player rather than a buyout.

 

[Wisp]

Kotkaniemi won't be moved as a cap dump - he's a rounding-error buyout for the next 3 summers, there's no reason to pay a price to get him off hte books.

That's a lot of money for any team to buyout though. Even Vancouver and especially Carolina.

I don't expect the Hurricanes are keen to be stuck holding that bag if it comes to it.

 

[TruGr1t]

Kotkaniemi won't be moved as a cap dump - he's a rounding-error buyout for the next 3 summers, there's no reason to pay a price to get him off hte books.

I doubt they'll dump him, but I also don't think they'd have much of a problem including him in a deal.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I doubt they'll dump him, but I also don't think they'd have much of a problem including him in a deal.

Agree with this.

 

[arttk]

I doubt they'll dump him, but I also don't think they'd have much of a problem including him in a deal.

i think carolina is more sensitive about holding cap that is not efficient, i think they will try their best to get rid of KK

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

If mgmt trades Hronek for Necas+, they must have a player in mind to trade for to replace Hronek.

Highly doubt they solely rely on bringing some UFAs back or signing others in FA.

Similar to Horvat being traded and Hronek acquired shortly thereafter.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Can pencil Tanev and Dillon into the roster for next year

 

[Jerry the great]

i think carolina is more sensitive about holding cap that is not efficient, i think they will try their best to get rid of KK

why do you assume they believe his cap hit is inefficient? just based his most recent season? the season before that was actually really good and the contract looked like a steal. The way he started last season looked like the continuation of a trend that had been developing since he'd arrived in Raleigh and then things went south. nagging injury that didn't sideline him, or did he just suddenly stop caring about his performance? who knows, but I don't think successful hockey ops people suffer from recency bias as much as fans do.

 

[TruGr1t]

If mgmt trades Hronek for Necas+, they must have a player in mind to trade for to replace Hronek.

Highly doubt they solely rely on bringing some UFAs back or signing others in FA.

Similar to Horvat being traded and Hronek acquired shortly thereafter.

If you're going to rely on free agency, this isn't the worst season to do it. There is a depth on the right-side you don't usually see in UFA. It's 5-7 players deep, but of course I wouldn't rule out another trade either. The defensive mix is more important to me, personally, they need to add more transition and offense to the blue line one way or another. If they trade Hronek, that need becomes even more acute.

Bringing in Tanev and like Dillon, for example, doesn't really do anything for me since you're just moving cap dollars around and not addressing the deficiencies on the back end.

 

[Jerry the great]

Can pencil Tanev and Dillon into the roster for next year

the downside to that, is they look like absolute fools if they can't turn that graphite into ink on July 1st. there is no rush to do anything with Hronek before July 1. If they want to go in a different direction when FA begins, they sign his replacement (or two) and create scarcity in the market.

 

[arttk]

why do you assume they believe his cap hit is inefficient? just based his most recent season? the season before that was actually really good and the contract looked like a steal. The way he started last season looked like the continuation of a trend that had been developing since he'd arrived in Raleigh and then things went south. nagging injury that didn't sideline him, or did he just suddenly stop caring about his performance? who knows, but I don't think successful hockey ops people suffer from recency bias as much as fans do.

4.8M cap and 27 points is really inefficient and it's not like he is like a shutdown ace. Even if he is a shutdown ace, you don't pay that much money for that amount of production.
You expect around 50 point production at that price range and if he is *only* a 40ish point guy, he needs to be pretty damn good defensively for that contract to be efficient.

 

[StickShift]

I think many are selling Kotkaniemi short. He’s been on a similar age/performance trajectory as Joel Eriksson Ek who has turned into a very valuable player.

He’s had the misfortune of being a high Habs draft pick, part of an offer sheet, and subsequently was given an absurd contract. None of those were his fault. It was managers who created those situations. He’s been under the microscope from the start and it’s clearly affected him.

It may still take a season or two before his performance begins to match his salary. But it seems very likely that his contract is going to be a great bargain for whoever holds it then.

If you are acquiring Kotkaniemi, the real value is in the cap savings in years 5-6-7-8 of that contract—not for the salary/value now.