Canucks Managerial Thread II

[AstrophysicalJet]

Ehlers is basically invisible all game until he gets an easy assist.
Id much rather have Virt tbh.
Nylander is yet to be seen, but he didnt make the roster of a bad team so theres that.

lol yeah it really sounds like you watched Ehlers play.
Ive watched 3 of 4 Jets games, and let me tell you, the kid does not float he is very engaged, physical for his size, does not shy away from board play.

he does not get easy apples, they have been good.

[MOD]

 

[Intangibos]

The Schneider trade was made before the draft began. They had some idea that Horvat would be available but I am sure there were other draft targets that the Canucks would have been happy with. The same goes for the #24. The Canucks believe they will get a good player with that pick.

No. NJ pick was up when it was traded to Vancouver. Gillis had Horvat rated at 2nd overall and waited to see if he would fall to 9th before pulling the trigger.

 

[WTG]

Ehlers is better than I expected to be.

When I watched him in Halifax I was more impressed with Meier but Ehlers has gotten off on a hot start so far.

But take into account the kid has 59.4% ozone starts and 10% of his ice time is on the PP + easier matchups.

Of course he is going to be productive.

 

[AstrophysicalJet]

Ehlers is better than I expected to be.

When I watched him in Halifax I was more impressed with Meier but Ehlers has gotten off on a hot start so far.

But take into account the kid has 59.4% ozone starts and 10% of his ice time is on the PP + easier matchups.

Of course he is going to be productive.

to each his own, eh?

Anywho im sure Virts is a great fit here, just no need to rag on other prospects to make ourselves feel better.

not saying you specifically ragged anyone

 

[WTG]

to each his own, eh?

Anywho im sure Virts is a great fit here, just no need to rag on other prospects to make ourselves feel better.

not saying you specifically ragged anyone

Nono! I'm not ******** on Ehlers to make Virtanen look better.

Ehlers has exceeded my expectations so far.

He's played extremely well. He's doing his job just fine. Being put in a scoring role and putting up points.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

No. NJ pick was up when it was traded to Vancouver. Gillis had Horvat rated at 2nd overall and waited to see if he would fall to 9th before pulling the trigger.

They had agreed on the deal the night before and waited till the draft to announce it to make a big splash for the home crowd.

 

[Intangibos]

They had agreed on the deal the night before and waited till the draft to announce it to make a big splash for the home crowd.

I'm pretty sure there were reports of us talking to Edmonton on draft day. Wasn't the deal just agreed on in principle if the guy we wanted was there? They could have made the announcement at any time, rather than directly before the pick, and still had it make a big splash for the home crowd.

 

[F A N]

No. NJ pick was up when it was traded to Vancouver. Gillis had Horvat rated at 2nd overall and waited to see if he would fall to 9th before pulling the trigger.

They had agreed on the deal the night before and waited till the draft to announce it to make a big splash for the home crowd.

Yep. And Aquilini was even at Luongo's house to talk to him before the trade was announced.

 

[WTG]

The point is that the Gillis regime targeted Horvat.

In the Kesler trade they didn't target a player rather a pick position.


I bet that the value of that pick would be much higher if teams knew that McCann was on the board. Benning couldn't have predicted that McCann would fall 10 spots down the draft.

 

[F A N]

The point is that the Gillis regime targeted Horvat.

In the Kesler trade they didn't target a player rather a pick position.


I bet that the value of that pick would be much higher if teams knew that McCann was on the board. Benning couldn't have predicted that McCann would fall 10 spots down the draft.

How can the value of the pick be "much higher" given McCann was available at 24? And while we like McCann, he was a player scouts felt underachieved in his draft year and that's one reason he fell. Besides, there were quite a few guys that the Canucks could have drafted that wouldn't have changed the equation, including the popular choice Barbashev. David Pastrnak, who was selected one pick after, is arguably currently the better pick. I am really happy with McCann, but let's face it, he was no where near the "big name who fell." That draft was completely unpredictable including the top 4.

 

[WTG]

It's the exact situation that happened last year. The 16th overall pick isn't all that valuable, but because Barzal was available the value of the 16 th overall pick exponentionaly increased.

McCann is the exact same. Based on the players available the pick becomes more valuable.

This isn't really rocket science I shouldn't have to explain it.

 

[Intangibos]

Just because a player falls doesn't necessarily mean it's because teams don't want him. While that is true some of the time, players can also become available because of teams reaching. Remember Boston last year with a few puzzling picks? The value of the picks after them would have gone up because of that.

Players do often fall because teams see a problem with the player, though. It just isn't always the case.

 

[Diamonddog01]

It's the exact situation that happened last year. The 16th overall pick isn't all that valuable, but because Barzal was available the value of the 16 th overall pick exponentionaly increased.

McCann is the exact same. Based on the players available the pick becomes more valuable.

This isn't really rocket science I shouldn't have to explain it.

When your argument is as convoluted as the one you're attempting to make, which essentially boils down to Benning should get no credit for anything, ever, than yeah. You do.

Your argument is ridiculous btw.

 

[Intangibos]

When your argument is as convoluted as the one you're attempting to make, which essentially boils down to Benning should get no credit for anything, ever, than yeah. You do.

Your argument is ridiculous btw.

Interesting.

It's hard to take you seriously when you use hyperbole to describe literally everything you don't agree with or like.

 

[Cupless44]

It is not a good sign when your $5M "foundation piece" is having to accommodate a rookie who has yet to assert himself at the NHL level.

That's a pretty far fetched stab at negativity. By accommodate I meant that the team wanted Virtanen to play for McCann. They dont want to ice two 19 year old rookies at the same time. Virtanen replaced a center. Sutter can play centre. Not complicated why he moved.

 

[Cupless44]

No. NJ pick was up when it was traded to Vancouver. Gillis had Horvat rated at 2nd overall and waited to see if he would fall to 9th before pulling the trigger.

Wrong.

Fact is the deal was completed the night before the draft. The NHL asked the teams not to announce it until the pick. The draft was in NJ. They want any drama to make the draft more interesting for their viewing audience.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Having looked those D-men up, only 1 of those 7 (Jonsson; Puistola and Hietanen were in Finland) was a full-time SHL regular at age 19 and he went on to a pretty good career. It's usually a pretty good sign for a Swedish (or any major European league) prospect when they're playing a big role while being that young.

That article you posted is pretty useful, though it won't apply here yet as we don't know when Forsling makes the jump to NA.

What does it matter if two of them were in Finland?

Jonsson was tied for 3rd / 4th in scoring when he went back to the SHL, after his NHL career. He was never 4th in scoring as a 19 year-old.

So out of all those players I listed, 2 were 19 and none made the NHL after finishing 4th in overall scoring as a 19 year-old. None made it as older players. It may be a good sign, but the odds are sill very low. Forsling's chances aren't great.

 

[Intangibos]

Wrong.

Fact is the deal was completed the night before the draft. The NHL asked the teams not to announce it until the pick. The draft was in NJ. They want any drama to make the draft more interesting for their viewing audience.

Although I'm pretty sure the deal was only agreed on principle if one of the guys we wanted was available, even if I agree that the deal was agreed to before the draft, it was still a good deal. We like to talk about 'the market dictating value' while inferior goalies to Lack get much much better returns, but Schneider got one of the highest returns for a goaltender in the last 15 years if not ever. Absolutely a good deal for us even if the trade was made long before the draft.

 

[banme*]

Although I'm pretty sure the deal was only agreed on principle if one of the guys we wanted was available, even if I agree that the deal was agreed to before the draft, it was still a good deal. We like to talk about 'the market dictating value' while inferior goalies to Lack get much much better returns, but Schneider got one of the highest returns for a goaltender in the last 15 years if not ever. Absolutely a good deal for us even if the trade was made long before the draft.

I haven't been following all of this that closely so excuse me if I'm off, but isn't the argument that Benning did worse than Gillis because Gillis waited until he knew what was available before making the deal? If that's not the case and the trade was submitted the night before but announced at the draft like rumoured, that's not much of an argument... We got a more valuable pick for a more valuable piece, that's it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Although I'm pretty sure the deal was only agreed on principle if one of the guys we wanted was available, even if I agree that the deal was agreed to before the draft, it was still a good deal. We like to talk about 'the market dictating value' while inferior goalies to Lack get much much better returns, but Schneider got one of the highest returns for a goaltender in the last 15 years if not ever. Absolutely a good deal for us even if the trade was made long before the draft.

The Schneider return was remarkable value. Didn't stop a large and vocal contingent from howling that we got robbed.

The unfortunate reality about goaltenders is there's a lot of them, teams don't like spending money on the position, and almost every team has a starter they're comfortable with along with a glut of up and comers in the pipeline. Moving them for any kind of high value return is nigh impossible.

Almost makes it a pity we turned into something of a goalie factory. Had we become a DEFENSEMAN factory we'd be raking in high draft picks. Or, you know. Would have a better defense.

 

[RandV]

I haven't been following all of this that closely so excuse me if I'm off, but isn't the argument that Benning did worse than Gillis because Gillis waited until he knew what was available before making the deal? If that's not the case and the trade was submitted the night before but announced at the draft like rumoured, that's not much of an argument... We got a more valuable pick for a more valuable piece, that's it.

The argument was whether you judge a trade based on the guy selected vs the draft pick acquired. Horvat is being brought up as a bit of an exception because it's a case where the trade was made while the pick was on the clock.

 

[Pip]

Wrong.

Fact is the deal was completed the night before the draft. The NHL asked the teams not to announce it until the pick. The draft was in NJ. They want any drama to make the draft more interesting for their viewing audience.

If I remember correctly the deal was based on Horvat being avaliable at 9. I'm fairly certain that Gillis would know who the other teams were picking that high.

 

[RandV]

Just because a player falls doesn't necessarily mean it's because teams don't want him. While that is true some of the time, players can also become available because of teams reaching. Remember Boston last year with a few puzzling picks? The value of the picks after them would have gone up because of that.

Players do often fall because teams see a problem with the player, though. It just isn't always the case.

Yes every teams draft list is different to the point that if you mix and matched the order you'd get all sorts of different risers & fallers. Now obviously there are players that do legitimately 'fall', but I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Shinkaruk or McCann were in the 10/15-20 range on a lot of teams lists, but they either weren't picking there or the teams that were just had on or two guys they ranked higher left.

 

[RandV]

The 1st round pick and Bonino are components in a trade. Would you trade more than a late 1st round pick for Bonino?

You're using some hindsight here, at the time of the trade from the Ducks perspective Bonino was the most valuable asset they were giving up. Just because he couldn't carry a line on his own for us and Benning dumped him after a season doesn't mean he wasn't a valuable component for the Ducks.

 

[Intangibos]

I haven't been following all of this that closely so excuse me if I'm off, but isn't the argument that Benning did worse than Gillis because Gillis waited until he knew what was available before making the deal? If that's not the case and the trade was submitted the night before but announced at the draft like rumoured, that's not much of an argument... We got a more valuable pick for a more valuable piece, that's it.

No, the argument is that the 24th overall was an excellent return for Kesler because we drafted McCann, when in reality we had no idea he would be available. These are the same people who blast Gillis for the return on Schneider despite Horvat looking incredible.

However, even without seeing how the picks develop, the 9th overall for Schneider is an excellent return while the 24th overall combined with Bonino and Sbisa is not very much value for an allstar C.