Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Torts had us in the running for a playoff spot until around Xmas time I believe - we all know how that story ended.
It's early (and I'd say this if we were 0-3).
Canucks Managerial Thread II
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It's early (and I'd say this if we were 0-3).
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
Bit too early to tell, especially given Sbisa had plenty of "WTF, you can play?" moments, only follow them up with utter idiocy. Prust is also far too inconsistent, so I expect him to drop down soon. That said, I am still pleasantly surprised by how things have gone so far. Cracknell has been a hidden gem, Miller is channeling his Buffalo days and the whole team looks pretty damn solid.
Thank God Benning is our GM.
Literally every dime out of Kesler
Keeps Markstrom
Better Goalie in Miller
Prust sutter Dorsett Championship Leadership
Baertschi acquired and given oppurtunity
All draft picks are solid
Vanquishes Kassian plague
Gaunce and Kenins in Minors marinating
Team looks young and fresh
Vrbata and Hamhuis for picks
Thank god for Jim Benning
Literally every dime out of Kesler
Keeps Markstrom
Better Goalie in Miller
Prust sutter Dorsett Championship Leadership
Baertschi acquired and given oppurtunity
All draft picks are solid
Vanquishes Kassian plague
Gaunce and Kenins in Minors marinating
Team looks young and fresh
Vrbata and Hamhuis for picks
Thank god for Jim Benning
Aphid Attraction
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2013
- 5,076
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I have full faith in this team. This is a veteran team that have guys who know their roles and they injected some youth, speed, and skill into their lineup. If the guys stay healthy, I think this team will make the playoffs.
I am really happy the Canucks are picking up some early points. It's going to be valuable down the road.
I am really happy the Canucks are picking up some early points. It's going to be valuable down the road.
thepuckmonster
Professional Winner.
I don't remember ever being solidly in a playoffs spot under Torts. I thought we were fighting and bouncing in and out of 8th seed until The Game happened?
Pip
Registered User
I'm fairly certain we were well in the playoffs. Sedins were also among the league lead in scoring.
thepuckmonster
Professional Winner.
Hrm, maybe my memory is failing. I remember Kesler and the twins putting up amazing numbers and playing 21 mins a night. Maybe I'm just remembering a different stretch.
Yeah, but Torts was also running the top forwards into the ground (ice?) with the heavy minutes he had them play and the come down was sort of inevitable.
This wasn't entirely the coach's fault - to an extent he was just playing the hand he was dealt (Torts said as much publicly) because Gillis woefully under provided for the forward corps that year.
The top 6 was really a top 4 (Sedin x 2, Kesler, Burrows). Throw one injury into the mix, and most of the 3rd line was then forced to move up the line-up (Higgins, Hansen). And the drop off after that was precipitous. There was no line beyond that that could reliably eat up minutes.
The fact that Mike Santorelli at some point became a go-to option that season is partly a local boy success story and partly a damning indictment of the roster Gillis put together.
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The way Torts wanted the team to play defense also played a toll. Tanev took a lot of punishment under Torts.
bsjezz
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- Nov 28, 2011
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i don't see him this way at all. i see him as very consistent in his play, and i think this is why benning sought him. three of the last five seasons he's played 82 games. he's very smart in getting in on the forecheck despite his lack of speed, and his decision making with the puck is generally excellent. no, he's not generally exciting to watch and offensively i doubt he's going to continue at his current rate of scoring. but i don't think that's the point of brandon prust. the point is he plays a straightforward, safe, predictable brand of veteran hockey and you need that somewhere in your lineup.
I don't want to talk to much about torts in this thread, but that team was tops in the league for a long while, or one of the tops. It wasn't until really the incident where we dropped some games, that we fell, then even still we were a playoff team until Hank got hurt, then he finally sat games out and the bottom just fell out.
Anyway, been a plesant surprise so far, really liking Cracknell, but still too early, I mean who had LA and Pits at 0-3? That was my biggest fear for this team was a slow start, so nice to avoid that.
Anyway, been a plesant surprise so far, really liking Cracknell, but still too early, I mean who had LA and Pits at 0-3? That was my biggest fear for this team was a slow start, so nice to avoid that.
Dissonance
Registered User
Yeah, it's a little early to declare Benning a genius.
That said, credit where due: Cracknell looks like a shrewd signing so far — first one we've really seen from this regime. (Vrbata is great, but it was a hardly a secret that he was a good player; Bartkowski's still iffy, though he looked much better against LA.)
That said, credit where due: Cracknell looks like a shrewd signing so far — first one we've really seen from this regime. (Vrbata is great, but it was a hardly a secret that he was a good player; Bartkowski's still iffy, though he looked much better against LA.)
We were pretty high in the standings until New Years. Team went through a couple of games where we lost the lead in the last couple of minutes and then the fight happened and it was all downhill.
banme*
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2014
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We're seeing some optimism here. All in all, I'd have to agree that JB's moves are looking good so far this season but think the post quoted below overstates the positive and understates the negative.
"Miller is playing Vezina caliber hockey."
Indeed he is. The Vezina Trophy is something based on consistently good play over the course of the season. Hopefully Miller's play continues at an exceptionally high level. It's still early. He also had extended periods last year (most notably about a month in Dec-Jan) where he played at a very high level for a sustained period.
"-Sbisa is playing not bad. " That's a matter of some debate. Overall, i think he's playing not too badly overall based on expecting him to play as a depth defenceman, but playing horribly in relation to his contract. I don't think the Canucks would be any worse if he'd been in the pressbox to start the season.
"Prust, Cracknell, and Dorsett are all playing extremely well."
I'd be a lot less enthusiastic here.
They're expected to be fourth liners. They've done very well in that role. They've also been scoring, which imo is as unsustainable as Kenins quick burst of two goals on his first three NHL shots last season was. Still, they've been a very good fourth line to date and there's no real reason to think they'll fall too far. I think they'll be a good 4th line.
They're also a very expensive fourth line.
No complaints about Cracknell, who appears to be a great free agent acquisition. There's not a lot to complain about here. If Prust is what it took to get rid of Kassian's personal struggles affecting the team, then it's hard to complain much about absorbing his contract for one season. As for Dorsett, it would be hard not to like what he brings to the team. I think his cap hit is a little-but only a little-high and my issue is really the 3rd year of his extension. I hope he doesn't regress by then and that it is worthwhile, but we won't know that for a couple more years.
All in all, I'd have to agree that JB's moves are looking good so far this season but think the quoted post overstated the positive and understated the negative.
"Sutter has been a good addition to the team, even if his offensive contributions leave something to be desired."
He's been what many of us expected. He skates well, is defensively conscious, can score and doesn't use his linemates well. He'll doesn't appear like someone who will set up his linemates much, nor is he particularly physical despite his size. So far it's too early to tell how he'll be on faceoffs-he got a befefit his first three games by only having to take faceoffs on his strong side and while his early results are mixed, one can't get a good handle of faceoff efficiency in 4 games.
My problem isn't with Sutter. He brings some real positives. The problem is whether the combination of his $4.4 mill + extension, ntc for 4 years and the total of the assets given up to get him make owning his contract for the next 6 years a worthwhile investment.
Six years is far from over.
"Really the only "Benning" guy that has sucked so far is Baertschi."
Who acquired Vey? Gillis? Nonis? Burke? Did WD make the trade even though he's only the coach?
How do you think Barkowski is playing? I realize there is a difference of opinion here. I consider him not to be a worthwhile signing. He's very different from Weber, Corrado and Stanton but I think their contributions, while different, would be as useful as Bart's at less cost. (Canucks are incurring the cost of Weber anyway, but if the 7th d-man was Stanton or Corrado they'd be saving some salary and would have more cap flexibility.)
"Miller is playing Vezina caliber hockey."
Indeed he is. The Vezina Trophy is something based on consistently good play over the course of the season. Hopefully Miller's play continues at an exceptionally high level. It's still early. He also had extended periods last year (most notably about a month in Dec-Jan) where he played at a very high level for a sustained period.
"-Sbisa is playing not bad. " That's a matter of some debate. Overall, i think he's playing not too badly overall based on expecting him to play as a depth defenceman, but playing horribly in relation to his contract. I don't think the Canucks would be any worse if he'd been in the pressbox to start the season.
"Prust, Cracknell, and Dorsett are all playing extremely well."
I'd be a lot less enthusiastic here.
They're expected to be fourth liners. They've done very well in that role. They've also been scoring, which imo is as unsustainable as Kenins quick burst of two goals on his first three NHL shots last season was. Still, they've been a very good fourth line to date and there's no real reason to think they'll fall too far. I think they'll be a good 4th line.
They're also a very expensive fourth line.
No complaints about Cracknell, who appears to be a great free agent acquisition. There's not a lot to complain about here. If Prust is what it took to get rid of Kassian's personal struggles affecting the team, then it's hard to complain much about absorbing his contract for one season. As for Dorsett, it would be hard not to like what he brings to the team. I think his cap hit is a little-but only a little-high and my issue is really the 3rd year of his extension. I hope he doesn't regress by then and that it is worthwhile, but we won't know that for a couple more years.
All in all, I'd have to agree that JB's moves are looking good so far this season but think the quoted post overstated the positive and understated the negative.
"Sutter has been a good addition to the team, even if his offensive contributions leave something to be desired."
He's been what many of us expected. He skates well, is defensively conscious, can score and doesn't use his linemates well. He'll doesn't appear like someone who will set up his linemates much, nor is he particularly physical despite his size. So far it's too early to tell how he'll be on faceoffs-he got a befefit his first three games by only having to take faceoffs on his strong side and while his early results are mixed, one can't get a good handle of faceoff efficiency in 4 games.
My problem isn't with Sutter. He brings some real positives. The problem is whether the combination of his $4.4 mill + extension, ntc for 4 years and the total of the assets given up to get him make owning his contract for the next 6 years a worthwhile investment.
Six years is far from over.
"Really the only "Benning" guy that has sucked so far is Baertschi."
Who acquired Vey? Gillis? Nonis? Burke? Did WD make the trade even though he's only the coach?
How do you think Barkowski is playing? I realize there is a difference of opinion here. I consider him not to be a worthwhile signing. He's very different from Weber, Corrado and Stanton but I think their contributions, while different, would be as useful as Bart's at less cost. (Canucks are incurring the cost of Weber anyway, but if the 7th d-man was Stanton or Corrado they'd be saving some salary and would have more cap flexibility.)
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Vey was bought by Willie, even though Benning signed the check. At least that's how I see it.
Barkowski? I think he's playing fine. He needs to find his groove in this new coaching system, and it will be a few weeks before he settles in. But we badly need D who can skate the puck out, and he can do that. It's just a matter of Willie using him and properly communicating what he should and shouldn't do. And I don't think highly of WillieD, so who knows how that pans out.
I think he'll be a hell of a lot better than Weber.
What were the two major knocks on jim this summer. The lack trade and the Kassian trade. It's early yet but I think it's becoming more apparent what Jim was seeing with these two moves. I think the Canucks are one rookie breaking out ala horvat from a strong season and good playoff run. The forward depth is extremely good with guance, vey, kenins, and shinkaruk as callup. Defensive depth not so much but if Sbisa can maintain or improve his play all of sudden the defensive depth is a lot better.
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
- Jun 19, 2002
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Evaluating Benning's work has to be much more than that. It's not just about his individual moves, it's about him being capable of building a team that can contend consistently for the Cup.
It's great the team has started the way they have, but IMO it's WD who should be evaluated and commended for that at this stage.
Who here is happy with the management of this team if year after year, consistently, they make the playoffs like they did last year, and are out early, every year? That's what Benning needs to be judged on.
And so far, the damage he's done (IMO) with his contracts and trades, and his pro scouting overall has hurt the ability of this franchise to be able to build that long-term consistently competing for the Cup, team.
Having said that, as a fan base we have no choice but to hope that he continues to learn on the job, and make better decisions moving forward. He's shown some of that this offseason with a couple of key moves that shows me at least he's learning from mistakes. That being particularly the decisions with their opening roster this year, where he did waive Vey, who he did pay a good price for just a year ago, and his roster decision to start Hutton with the team and send Corrado down and eventually lost him on waivers. The first, IMO, points to Benning seeing that the guy he paid for and wanted wasn't a fit and didn't try to keep forcing that square peg in a round hole, just hoping you can eventually retain some value for that asset. The second, he did send a clear message to the organization's pipeline - that you'll get a spot if you earn that spot, even if it doesn't fit with the team's plans.
Hutton is yet another left-side dman here, a position with a lot of bodies. The club really needed a right side dman to establish himself here, and Corrado could have been that fit. But Corrado earned that waiver spot, and Hutton clearly earned that starting spot.
IMO those are good management moves. And Cracknell has been a good signing - and with that contract and expectations coming in, he's already exceeded them if he does nothing more all year and is playing in the AHL, so there's hope for Benning's pro scouting ability still ... still a lot more misses - and in more important roster spots - and he still has a long way to go before proving his pro scouting has actually improved.
The one area I've never criticized him on is his amateur scouting... zero complaints there, even though there will always be a missed "should have picked that guy instead" pick.
My question with Benning from day 1, and a 3-0-1 start can't address that, is if he's able to build that solid franchise with a strong pipeline coming in which allows a team to contend consistently.
IMO that requires strong cap management where you plug capable pieces into those roster positions where they can at least meet their cap liabilities. Signing players like Sutter and Sbisa to contracts that they will never live up to, just doesn't do that. That's terrible pro scouting and cap management. When your young players get to those next contracts that hopefully they've earned, it will force the club into tough cap decisions, which inevitably lead to loss of depth in the lineup. This will happen when you still have a $4.375mill 4th line center and a $3.6mill defender eating cap in a marginal role, with your young players who have passed them on the depth chart in Horvat, Hutton, McCann and Virtanen all needing new contracts before those bad ones expire.
The other area of concern is still his trading ability. Not only has he basically failed IMO in getting the most value out of his trades, he's failed in identifying the lineup holes and plugging them effectively. Maybe he's learned from that - and again the Cracknell/Vey decision shows some of that - and he'll be able to target better assets for this lineup moving forward.
It's great the team is off to such a great start so far... McCann and Hutton look great so far, and Virtanen shows signs of being able to do the same - having young capable kids like that, who earn a full-time roster spot is just huge for this team. But if it's just going to be a team that is good for that 100 point, get into the playoffs and then done... and that continues season after season, then Benning has failed IMO. And IMO he won't be able to accomplish that if these idiotic contracts, and huge misses in pro scouting continue.
I wouldn't say it was 100% all Willie. When he was acquired Benning obviously had an opinion on Vey, and if you look where the Manchester Monarchs are they're right next to Boston. Considering Benning likes to scout and LA has a good organization I'd be surprised if he didn't get out to see Vey play while with Boston. Also Benning's the one that chose to give Vey a raise to $1,000,000 this summer, rather than simply QO him.
Cupless44
Registered User
- Jun 25, 2014
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Yes I think Benning deserves some credit for a good cheap free agent signing in Cracknell.
Tim McCracken
Good loser = LOSER!
Contracts and skating aside, those 3 guys are leaving it all on the ice every game. Obviously not sustainable through the whole season but don't underestimate their influence on what is a ridiculously soft rest of the team.
Cupless44
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- Jun 25, 2014
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You talk a lot in that post about whether Benning can build a good team long term. That is not going to come down to the odd trade, good or bad, or every contract he signs being perfect.
The most important element in building a good team and organization long term is good drafting that keeps the pipeline full of talent. Both to stock your roster and to provide assets. That has LONG been a weakness of the Vancouver Canucks.
Too early to see how the players ultimately turn out, but I personally feel good about Benning's first 2 drafts. What I also like is that Linden and Benning are extremely clear in understanding and stating that the most important part of their job is drafting and developing players.
That is most important to me personally. I want to win every trade ideally like everyone does but I thought the drama over moving Lack was excessive and really has nothing to do with our long term success. Not an all star or Vezina winner. Much ado about nothing. I like Markstrom better long term and I always felt that a Miller/Markstrom duo this year would be just fine for where this team is. More drama about Kassian but he clearly needed to go and is not a player you build with or want around your young players.
It is all about building with the next wave of good, legitimate NHL prospects who become players. I think people need to chill and give Benning a chance to do that. GMs should be judged after 3-5 years.
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