Canucks Managerial Thread II

[Pip]

Ehlers is basically invisible all game until he gets an easy assist.
Id much rather have Virt tbh.
Nylander is yet to be seen, but he didnt make the roster of a bad team so theres that.

I don't really care who makes the NHL first.

 

[F A N]

Gillis picked BPA on McKenzie's lists and everyone seems to hate his drafts.

I think the majority liked Gillis' first round picks at the time. It's his other picks that were more questionable.

Seriously, Benning seems like a nice guy. I really feel bad for not liking him. I imagine him reading the newspapers when he gets fired or fans chanting "Fire Benning" as they did to Gillis and Benning getting sad, and it makes me sad. He really seems like a good guy, just not very good at being an NHL GM. I really wish he could put it together and be better, from my perspective, at his job because he seems relatively nice (although I don't like how he's treated some players). I just don't have much hope for that to happen.

The odds are Benning will eventually be fired. Aquilini seems to have a quick trigger. But I think Benning will deliver the results that will see him earn an extension a couple of years down the line.

 

[WTG]

Adam Cracknell makes 0.575m and achieves just as much as Dorsett and Prust.

Pretty damning after we heard a bunch of posters try to make Dorsett out to be this godlike bottom 6 player when you got a guy that played in the AHL for years basically out preforming him.



I'll give credit to Benning on Cracknell though, he was a good signing. But it does make the Dorsett signing look like a joke.

 

[F A N]

Adam Cracknell makes 0.575m and achieves just as much as Dorsett and Prust.

Pretty damning after we heard a bunch of posters try to make Dorsett out to be this godlike bottom 6 player when you got a guy that played in the AHL for years basically out preforming him.

I'll give credit to Benning on Cracknell though, he was a good signing. But it does make the Dorsett signing look like a joke.

I think Cracknell has been an underrated player his whole professional career. But I think there's a reason he hasn't been able to stick in the NHL and I don't see him finishing the year as the team's 4th line centre.

 

[tantalum]

I think Cracknell has been an underrated player his whole professional career. But I think there's a reason he hasn't been able to stick in the NHL and I don't see him finishing the year as the team's 4th line centre.

He's a good depth pickup but he likely isn't a guy you want in the lineup full time because of what it means about your depth. It's also why Vey should be doubly disappointed about his camp. While Cracknell had a very good camp he shouldn't have been a high hurdle to jump.

 

[Jyrki21]

Another 2pts - results

So if they had lost the shootout, then management is bad, right?

Or maybe, just maybe, Verviticus is right, and all the GM can do is position the team as best he can, with the individual results being somewhat out of his control...

 

[I am toxic]

Adam Cracknell makes 0.575m and achieves just as much as Dorsett and Prust.

Pretty damning after we heard a bunch of posters try to make Dorsett out to be this godlike bottom 6 player when you got a guy that played in the AHL for years basically out preforming him.



I'll give credit to Benning on Cracknell though, he was a good signing. But it does make the Dorsett signing look like a joke.

I believe the word you are looking for is superb.

 

[VanCanucks53]

Gillis picked BPA on McKenzie's lists and everyone seems to hate his drafts.

Also, Demko was an excellent pick. I don't think anybody here has had anything really negative to say about the Demko pick. It's almost as if we're not saying these things because we hate Benning, but because we disagree with him.

Seriously, Benning seems like a nice guy. I really feel bad for not liking him. I imagine him reading the newspapers when he gets fired or fans chanting "Fire Benning" as they did to Gillis and Benning getting sad, and it makes me sad. He really seems like a good guy, just not very good at being an NHL GM. I really wish he could put it together and be better, from my perspective, at his job because he seems relatively nice (although I don't like how he's treated some players). I just don't have much hope for that to happen.

Agreed. I really dislike the fact that he's our GM but almost feel bad for it because he seems like a genuinely nice person. Probably too honest for this kind of job though.

 

[Love]

Adam Cracknell makes 0.575m and achieves just as much as Dorsett and Prust.

Pretty damning after we heard a bunch of posters try to make Dorsett out to be this godlike bottom 6 player when you got a guy that played in the AHL for years basically out preforming him.



I'll give credit to Benning on Cracknell though, he was a good signing. But it does make the Dorsett signing look like a joke.

I believe the word you are looking for is superb.

I believe the words you are both looking for is "real gud."

 

[Hit the post]

I think the majority liked Gillis' first round picks at the time. It's his other picks that were more questionable.

That's more on the scouting staff though - GM's tend to really have time to scout themselves extensively the guys likely to be taken in the 1st round. They rely more on the advise of the rest of the amateur scouting staff for the other picks.

Granted the GM is responsible for the staff (eg., "the buck stops here").

The odds are Benning will eventually be fired. Aquilini seems to have a quick trigger. But I think Benning will deliver the results that will see him earn an extension a couple of years down the line.

True - all GM's are hired to be fired (with a few exceptions). And yes, Aquaman doesn't seem to have alot of patiance (easy to be handing out the cash when times are good).

As to the last part - how Benning does it might lead me to be scared (eg., throwing big money/long-term contracts on guys like Lucic - who *may* help out in the short run but are past their due date).

So if they had lost the shootout, then management is bad, right?

Or maybe, just maybe, Verviticus is right, and all the GM can do is position the team as best he can, with the individual results being somewhat out of his control...

heh, a team that was inferior (on paper) *AND* without it's best defenseman beat us in the playoffs last season. Guess Jimbo had nothing to do with that right?



(PS: It didn't - that was all on Willie - just like the point you made).

 

[Hardyvan123]

He's a good depth pickup but he likely isn't a guy you want in the lineup full time because of what it means about your depth. It's also why Vey should be doubly disappointed about his camp. While Cracknell had a very good camp he shouldn't have been a high hurdle to jump.

Pretty much this.

For some reason there has been way to much focus on the 4th line in Vancouver for several years now.

Hopefully some of the young forwards change that focus this year.

 

[Jyrki21]

heh, a team that was inferior (on paper) *AND* without it's best defenseman beat us in the playoffs last season. Guess Jimbo had nothing to do with that right?

(PS: It didn't - that was all on Willie - just like the point you made).

I 100% agree that the playoff loss falls squarely on Desjardins – I honestly think he torpedoed his own team in an extremely winnable series by refusing to employ even the most basic deployment tactics.

That said, I repeat, the GM's role is to best position his team, so obviously all the moves that Benning made to that point are quite relevant to how the team ended up (e.g. having Sbisa on the team because of the Kesler deal), and he is absolutely accountable for that; it's just that you can't peg each individual result as some just, inevitable result of tinkering with the lineup some months earlier. Like if they win a toss-up game in overtime, that vindicates every managerial decision to date, and vice versa if they lose it.

 

[aramang]

Ehlers is basically invisible all game until he gets an easy assist.
Id much rather have Virt tbh.
Nylander is yet to be seen, but he didnt make the roster of a bad team so theres that.

Ehlers has 2 points and 13 SOG in 3 games playing 15 minutes a game. If Virtanen does that in his first 3 NHL games we'll be building a statue of him.

 

[RandV]

Gillis picked BPA on McKenzie's lists and everyone seems to hate his drafts.

Also, Demko was an excellent pick. I don't think anybody here has had anything really negative to say about the Demko pick. It's almost as if we're not saying these things because we hate Benning, but because we disagree with him.

More like some people focus on the lack of results from the first 3 drafts, then ignore any positive results brewing from the latter three draft and assume that he simply drafted 0 NHL players.

Also I'm not going to make any negative comment on the Demko pick, but typically these days late 1st/early 2nd is where the drafts top goalies tend to go. Taking a goalie here will have positive early results because these are the top goalies their age, but there's more long term risk as it's a very long road for them to become an NHL starting goalie.

The way goalies tend to go for all we know 5 years down the road Demko will have failed to make the cut and... 6th rounder Maximilian Pajpach is the elite goalie from the 2014 draft.

Now nothing wrong with taking a goalie in this spot, it's actually a good idea to do it every other year if you get the chance, just saying Demko looks like a much better prospect now than the skaters taken after (or some before) him but the trade off is there's a much longer turn around time and a greater chance for a bust.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Ehlers has 2 points and 13 SOG in 3 games playing 15 minutes a game. If Virtanen does that in his first 3 NHL games we'll be building a statue of him.

Points are points sure, but ehlers plays like mason Raymond. We have enough soft wingers on the team. I'll take virtanen skill set 10 times outta 11.
Atleast at this point.

 

[Pip]

Points are points sure, but ehlers plays like mason Raymond. We have enough soft wingers on the team. I'll take virtanen skill set 10 times outta 11.
Atleast at this point.

You can't just brush aside what has been a great start for Ehlers. Ultimately I care about effectiveness.

 

[tantalum]

More like some people focus on the lack of results from the first 3 drafts, then ignore any positive results brewing from the latter three draft and assume that he simply drafted 0 NHL players.

They also willfully have to turn a blind eye to prospects not drafted such as Tanev (he seems like he might be a good one someday!), Lack, and I'd include Kenins as well. Adding in a Tanev and Lack to the group that includes Horvat, Hutton, a developing Gaunce, Subban etc. and it isn't all terrible.

 

[Hardyvan123]

They also willfully have to turn a blind eye to prospects not drafted such as Tanev (he seems like he might be a good one someday!), Lack, and I'd include Kenins as well. Adding in a Tanev and Lack to the group that includes Horvat, Hutton, a developing Gaunce, Subban etc. and it isn't all terrible.

No it's not terrible but Guance and Subban are far from NHLer's, neither mind quality ones.

Kenins has had his cup of tea, I doubt he makes an NHL pension honestly.
Hutton is off to an impressive start and hopefully he has some staying power and growth here

But given that time frame it's not earth shattering for developing young talent wither.

 

[VanillaCoke]

You can't just brush aside what has been a great start for Ehlers. Ultimately I care about effectiveness.

Im not. Im pointing out id rather have virtanen at this point. And prob in the future givin the makeup of the team.

 

[mathonwy]

He's a good depth pickup but he likely isn't a guy you want in the lineup full time because of what it means about your depth. It's also why Vey should be doubly disappointed about his camp. While Cracknell had a very good camp he shouldn't have been a high hurdle to jump.

If I hadn't watched last night's game I would have agreed with you.

Cracknell played an outstanding game last night and made Dorsett and Prust look like superstars. He was chipping the puck into the right spots and supporting the forecheck extremely well almost every single time.

And Cracknell being big, he didn't get muscled off the puck as easily as Vey usually does.

My theory is that WD saw this good play as well and rewarded them with some PP time.

 

[Cupless44]

It wasn't too early to say he passed on a seemingly better choice at the time. And that has yet to be disproven... But do continue to reframe arguments as you see fit.

These arguments are way too much speculation and WAY too early, particularly if you keep in mind that committing to draft a power forward pretty much always requires a bit more patience. Certainly more patience than a month or two past Virtanen's 19th birthday.

You also drafted power forward because you are looking for different elements than a smaller skill player like Ehlers.

After over a year of slagging the Virtanen pick on here it would be nice to see some get behind a local kid who is thrilled to be a Canuck. Not like the Canucks can't use a big, strong, fast, skilled winger who hits like a truck and can shoot the puck. Not we we have a player like that.

 

[Cupless44]

No it's not terrible but Guance and Subban are far from NHLer's, neither mind quality ones.

Kenins has had his cup of tea, I doubt he makes an NHL pension honestly.
Hutton is off to an impressive start and hopefully he has some staying power and growth here

But given that time frame it's not earth shattering for developing young talent wither.

And those signs of encouragement are pretty late the game after 7 years of drafting from Gillis. Most teams have some good NHL players in their peak years 23-30 that impact their roster from drafting.

Ex. If McCann is the real deal from Benning's first draft he will be a good top 6 centre, 25 years old, in his peak after the same time frame. WHO has Gillis EVER drafted like that?

Bo probably, but not until after 7 years of trying. That why we need to rebuild and the most exciting players on our team are 19 and 20 and not truly ready to carry the load.

Sorry but taking 7 years to hit a top 6 forward in the draft is just not good enough.

 

[tantalum]

If I hadn't watched last night's game I would have agreed with you.

Cracknell played an outstanding game last night and made Dorsett and Prust look like superstars. He was chipping the puck into the right spots and supporting the forecheck extremely well almost every single time.

And Cracknell being big, he didn't get muscled off the puck as easily as Vey usually does.

My theory is that WD saw this good play as well and rewarded them with some PP time.

There isn't a 13th type forward in the NHL that won't look tremendous during some games and even for strings of games. Cracknell is no different. It's being consistently good (well good for a 4th liner) for 82 games that is the trick and it isn't something he's managed at this point in his career.

 

[mathonwy]

There isn't a 13th type forward in the NHL that won't look tremendous during some games and even for strings of games. Cracknell is no different. It's being consistently good (well good for a 4th liner) for 82 games that is the trick and it isn't something he's managed at this point in his career.

Yep. Completely agree.

I'm hoping this year's Adam Cracknell turns out to be like a 2013-14 Mike Santorelli as it really isn't all that often that a no-name 30 year old bottom 6er with no pedigree makes it out of training camp.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Yep. Completely agree.

I'm hoping this year's Adam Cracknell turns out to be like a 2013-14 Mike Santorelli as it really isn't all that often that a no-name 30 year old bottom 6er with no pedigree makes it out of training camp.

I wouldn't say Cracknell is a no name, he was part of an extremely effective 4th line in St Louis awhile back.