Canucks Managerial Thread II

[vanuck]

Still way too early to declare anything about Benning's drafting.

 

[Verviticus]

Results are what matters.

not really no

 

[vanuck]

Probably just going by the list. Though I think Gillis was hands on with his scouting staff and discussed the players with them. Whether or not he succeeds or busts falls on both Gillis and the scouting staff. Just like Hodgson is on Gillis (although the alternative, Beech, is worse), Virtanen will probably be on Benning for better or for worse. McCann is probably a combination of Benning and the scouts, though I think Benning makes more decisions himself when it comes to scouting than Gillis who largely defers to his staff.

It feels that way. It wouldn't surprise me if Benning actually made the calls on some of the higher picks as well seeing the amount of time he spent on going around scouting players during the season.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Still way too early to declare anything about Benning's drafting.

Yet it wasn't too early for you to tell Benning to **** off for drafting Jared McCann 8 minutes after the selection.

This comment here is the most positive I've yet to see from you regarding Benning. That speaks volumes about what a terrific job he's done through his first pair of drafts.

Feels good having so much confidence in this teams scouting going forward. Can't remember the last time this was the case.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yet it wasn't too early for you to tell Benning to **** off for drafting Jared McCann 8 minutes after the selection.

Does this apply to your own Nylander vs Virtanen critique? Still think Benning went right there?

Vanuck is right, still too early, especially when the critique was that one particular player would have been better, not that McCann was a 2nd round talent.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Does this apply to your own Nylander vs Virtanen critique? Still think Benning went right there?

Vanuck is right, still too early, especially when the critique was that one particular player would have been better, not that McCann was a 2nd round talent.

Right where? I ranked the 4 forwards Ehlers, Nylander, Ritchie, Virtanen in that order. And acknowledged I don't see any of these guys enough to make definitive statements about who will be the best player.

So it's not too early to call a GM an idiot for his picks on draft day, but it is too early to say he made good picks 6 to 18 months after they were chosen? Isn't that convenient.

 

[vanuck]

Yet it wasn't too early for you to tell Benning to **** off for drafting Jared McCann 8 minutes after the selection.

This comment here is the most positive I've yet to see from you regarding Benning. That speaks volumes about what a terrific job he's done through his first pair of drafts.

Feels good having so much confidence in this teams scouting going forward. Can't remember the last time this was the case.

My point there was that while McCann may be in the NHL right now, it's far from certain he was the best pick. Considering his draft history in Boston, you'll forgive me if I'm not sold.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

My point there was that while McCann may be in the NHL right now, it's far from certain he was the best pick.

Was it too early to call Benning a fool on draft day for taking Jared McCann at 24?

 

[vanuck]

Was it too early to call Benning a fool on draft day for taking Jared McCann at 24?

He hasn't earned any benefit of the doubt (especially when you look at his "eye for talent"). Hell I even called him a fool for taking Virtanen at 6th OA...

 

[Drop the Sopel]

He hasn't earned any benefit of the doubt (especially when you look at his "eye for talent"). Hell I even called him a fool for taking Virtanen at 6th OA...

Virtanen, McCann and Demko were all the top ranked players on Bob McKenzie's list and McKenzie's lists have historically been good. So who do you think has earned the benefit of the doubt more - you or Bob McKenzie's draft lists?

 

[arttk]

Virtanen, McCann and Demko were all the top ranked players on Bob McKenzie's list and McKenzie's lists have historically been good. So who do you think has earned the benefit of the doubt more - you or Bob McKenzie's draft lists?

Well, Schroder, Hodgson were highest rank too. High rank doesn't mean anything to be honest. And you are right, it is too early to call, even for McCann and I want him to do well.
Virtanen is 100% on him, if he doesn't hit win that, oh man.

And it's still early to proclaim that MG can't drafts. Just 1 year ago, people were still *****ing about how we have no youth from him and now suddenly we have Hutton and then Corrado potentially playing for the leads and Gaunce and Grenier waiting down there for their chance.
It's fair to say the first 3 drafts from him fail, but to suggest all his drafts failed and we only got 1 when the kids are still developing is quite dishonest.

 

[vanuck]

Virtanen, McCann and Demko were all the top ranked players on Bob McKenzie's list and McKenzie's lists have historically been good. So who do you think has earned the benefit of the doubt more - you or Bob McKenzie's draft lists?

While it's true Virtanen was the highest ranked on McKenzie's list, I don't automatically go by who's the highest remaining every time. I thought Ehlers was a better pick at 6th OA. In fact I would even say that followed more of an HF 'consensus' than his ranking.

As to the bolded, this is a hockey forum where you're allow to post your opinions and disagree with things. Otherwise what's the point of being on here?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Right where? I ranked the 4 forwards Ehlers, Nylander, Ritchie, Virtanen in that order. And acknowledged I don't see any of these guys enough to make definitive statements about who will be the best player.

So it's not too early to call a GM an idiot for his picks on draft day, but it is too early to say he made good picks 6 to 18 months after they were chosen? Isn't that convenient.

It wasn't too early to say he passed on a seemingly better choice at the time. And that has yet to be disproven... But do continue to reframe arguments as you see fit.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Ehlers is basically invisible all game until he gets an easy assist.
Id much rather have Virt tbh.
Nylander is yet to be seen, but he didnt make the roster of a bad team so theres that.

 

[RandV]

Was it too early to call Benning a fool on draft day for taking Jared McCann at 24?

HF posters have universally been calling their GM's fool's on draft day for as long as HFBoards has been around. It's not really in the same category as the usual Benning criticism.

 

[Quinning]

Sbisa is just the worst

 

[Bleach Clean]

To be clear… I wasn't arguing management is good or that good team = good management. I'm arguing against hysteria and hyperbole. I don't think it has been nearly as bad as the theme around here indicates and I was curious whether a good team would change anything. Question answered.

The team was "good" last year and Benning still made it into "Worst GM" threads on the main board. Why does it change now? People have evaluated him and have found his work wanting. Hyperbole or just each individual's assertion?

Lastly, combating hyperbole is largely pointless because it is subjective. The board doesn't follow one standard.

 

[Scurr]

The team was "good" last year and Benning still made it into "Worst GM" threads on the main board. Why does it change now? People have evaluated him and have found his work wanting. Hyperbole or just each individual's assertion?

Lastly, combating hyperbole is largely pointless because it is subjective. The board doesn't follow one standard.

I was kinda hoping it was hyperbole... but I think you're right… hysteria fits better.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I was kinda hoping it was hyperbole... but I think you're right… hysteria fits better.

Because each poster cannot assert Benning's moves and come to the conclusion that he has done poorly?

Are we dismissing main board opinion as hysteria too?

 

[Scurr]

Because each poster cannot assert Benning's moves and come to the conclusion that he has done poorly?

Are we dismissing main board opinion as hysteria too?

I'm not dismissing the opinion… just the degree to which it has been argued… and the manic way it has taken over this board for 18 months.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm not dismissing the opinion… just the degree to which it has been argued… and the manic way it has taken over this board for 18 months.

The degree and persistence of that opinion still stems from the source of many individual posters reaching their own conclusion. A conclusion which happens to align against the work Benning has done.

I don't expect any different on a message board.

 

[blendini]

not really no

Another 2pts - results

 

[Trelane]

Because each poster cannot assert Benning's moves and come to the conclusion that he has done poorly?

Are we dismissing main board opinion as hysteria too?

Less hysteria and more willingness to oblige a heretofore insufferable fans base which all of a sudden has turned on their own with vigor. The main board's 'opinion' is entirely predictable under the circumstances.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Less hysteria and more willingness to oblige a heretofore insufferable fans base which all of a sudden has turned on their own with vigor. The main board's 'opinion' is entirely predictable under the circumstances.

Insufferable fan base? Predictable mass opinion?

It's too easy to think this way. Where does each individual's own assertion weigh in? Or is it groups losing their way, and in turn influencing larger groups?

The individual's opinion matters. How does each poster come to the conclusion that he or she has? This bears reflection, IMO. Not that so many share such an opinion. That is secondary.

 

[Intangibos]

Virtanen, McCann and Demko were all the top ranked players on Bob McKenzie's list and McKenzie's lists have historically been good. So who do you think has earned the benefit of the doubt more - you or Bob McKenzie's draft lists?

Gillis picked BPA on McKenzie's lists and everyone seems to hate his drafts.

Also, Demko was an excellent pick. I don't think anybody here has had anything really negative to say about the Demko pick. It's almost as if we're not saying these things because we hate Benning, but because we disagree with him.

Seriously, Benning seems like a nice guy. I really feel bad for not liking him. I imagine him reading the newspapers when he gets fired or fans chanting "Fire Benning" as they did to Gillis and Benning getting sad, and it makes me sad. He really seems like a good guy, just not very good at being an NHL GM. I really wish he could put it together and be better, from my perspective, at his job because he seems relatively nice (although I don't like how he's treated some players). I just don't have much hope for that to happen.