Canucks Managerial Thread II

[VanillaCoke]

It's entirely possible that Benning was frank with the Habs about Kassian's situation and this was one last favor for Kassian to try and change his life around.

A buyout would've cut him off from a wide swath of resources available to him, and a lot of pro athletes aren't really equipped at dealing with the outside world (see: Tom Brady and mastering e-mail.)

It was a bad value trade if you look at it from a strict 1:1 perspective. If you buy into the 'addition by way of subtraction' approach, though, getting Kassian off the team would be seen as a huge plus if he was viewed as being severely detrimental to the team.

Then just trade him for a seventh or future considerations.
We don't need Prust

 

[Intangibos]

Then just trade him for a seventh or future considerations.
We don't need Prust

It's quite clear that the problem isn't that they undervalued Kassian (although they did), but that they think Prust is a real good player.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Have you ever considered that the trade may have been part of what made him worse? Perhaps after settling in here and trying to get his life together, him being moved out after, from his perspective, being mistreated by the new management is the major reason he maybe got worse?

I don't buy the notion that Kassian is some tortured soul, like a refugee from a Tom Waits song. He's not some hardluck dude, he's someone who apparently likes to party and it was affecting his performance negatively.

Aside from it being kind of speculative to even say that his alleged alcoholism was the reason he was traded, since it never seemingly interfered in his work here for the past few years at least,

It is, but if we're having a discussion about it, speculation is all that we really can do. Also, given that the NHL substance abuse program guarantees anonymity and that no NHL team worth their salt is going to want to broadcast they have a drug problem going on with one of their players, it's not really surprising that we haven't heard much.

Ditto for teammates. They're always going to try and stick by the guy and help them anyway they can. It's just one of those things you do.

He wouldn't be the first player to be disgruntled after being moved by this management,

I may be misunderstanding you here, but are you saying that Kassian's alleged substance abuse problems were made worse by being traded?

EDIT:

Which a change of scenery can be a good thing, someone abruptly being moved or being treated negatively can be devastating for someone dealing with depression. Addiction and depression like mentioned earlier are both mental illnesses, and often go hand in hand.

They don't always, though, and again, the only time you'll be able to get better is if you want to get better. You could go to 1,000 therapy sessions and 100 rehab programs and if you don't want to change, it won't do a thing.

There is a reason we didn't just ship Rypien out when he had problems and just gave him time off, and he ended up a fan favorite.

...because Rypien sought help and came to Canucks management. Also, his issues stemmed from mental illness and not going out and partying with girls until 6AM in the morning.

Regardless of Kassian's problem, he is by all accounts a good guy. He is a fan favorite and he was well liked by his teammates in the dressing room.

You can be a good guy and still be a problem or a distraction. I had a roommate in university who loved going out and partying all the time. I always had fun with him and he was one of the nicest guys in the world. I had to move out, though, because his partying was starting to encroach on my studies. He ended up flunking out, I didn't. He's still a nice guy, though.

Character starts at the top and the moves this management has made are anything but classy. Hell, they even fired the trainer. When does the trainer ever get fired? The team loves their trainer, the guy who takes care of them all year, and Burnstein was one of the best in the business. Real good character shipping him out along with everyone else. Maybe Kassian, Burnstein, Gilman and Henning partied together and JB felt left out.

I am not a big fan of this management group thus far and feel that they've struck out more than they've hit home runs. But this is a hockey team where people were clamoring for Roger Takahashi to be fired. The mental picture of Kassian/Burnstein/Gilman/Henning all out at a Montreal strip club til 3AM is a hilarious one [MOD].

 

[drax0s]

Did anyone say anything about sending Kassian to the ECHL or Europe? Kind of the whole point of this discussion is that if we didn't want Kassian here we'd have been better off just waiving him rather than pulling the trigger on the deal Benning made. You'd have a roster spot for Virtanen/Kenins/Gaunce, a little bit more breathing space on the cap, likely don't need to waive/lose Corrado, and you'd still have the 5th round pick. I don't recall anyone getting into specifics of where you'd send Kassian after waiving him, if it got to that stage ideally he'd be claimed but that's not the point.

Yup. It was brought up. Some said we should waive him. Others said we don't want him around the kids in Utica if he clears. Then the thought was brought up that he could be loaned to an ECHL team.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I would bet my horse kassian would be claimed for ****ing sure. None of this news was out in the open.

 

[arttk]

I don't buy the notion that Kassian is some tortured soul, like a refugee from a Tom Waits song. He's not some hardluck dude, he's someone who apparently likes to party and it was affecting his performance negatively.

The period before his season ending injury, he was probably the most efficient point scorer for us.
Was like a PPG for a 10 game stretch averaging 11 mins a game.
He was becoming the perfect Sedin linemate and god knows what would've happened if not for the injury.

Seems like injuries was more effectively at affecting his performance than what we alleged off ice behavior.

 

[WhiteCurse]

Have you ever considered that the trade may have been part of what made him worse? Perhaps after settling in here and trying to get his life together, him being moved out after, from his perspective, being mistreated by the new management is the major reason he maybe got worse? All his friends were here, he's spent his entire adult life here up until now. Sure he was in Buffalo before but he wasn't there long and really settled in here.

Aside from it being kind of speculative to even say that his alleged alcoholism was the reason he was traded, since it never seemingly interfered in his work here for the past few years at least, it also seems odd to imply that he was moved because he was worsening. In fact, I'd find it more likely that the way this team handled him was a factor in his decline in behavior if there really is one. He wouldn't be the first player to be disgruntled after being moved by this management, Garrison and Bieksa spoke out about the way they were handled and one is a local guy who took a discount and played hard, and the other is a Canuck lifer. Both I'd say are really good lockerroom guys and not really people I would expect to mouth off to the media.

Which a change of scenery can be a good thing, someone abruptly being moved or being treated negatively can be devastating for someone dealing with depression. Addiction and depression like mentioned earlier are both mental illnesses, and often go hand in hand. There is a reason we didn't just ship Rypien out when he had problems and just gave him time off, and he ended up a fan favorite.

Regardless of Kassian's problem, he is by all accounts a good guy. He is a fan favorite and he was well liked by his teammates in the dressing room. I found it disgraceful the way they handled him before and after the trade, just like I found it disgraceful the way they handled Garrison. Character starts at the top and the moves this management has made are anything but classy. Hell, they even fired the trainer. When does the trainer ever get fired? The team loves their trainer, the guy who takes care of them all year, and Burnstein was one of the best in the business. Real good character shipping him out along with everyone else. Maybe Kassian, Burnstein, Gilman and Henning partied together and JB felt left out. Gillis treated his players well to a fault, all the players here have nothing but great things to say about the guy who everyone talks about as being egotistical. Benning on the other hand clearly doesn't command the same respect, and it's going to start to show in the free agent market. It would be nice to see some people get let go with respect and actually have good things to say about Benning, that would be a nice change and sign of improvement.

Im a Kassian fan, have his jersey. Lets face it some guys are just **** ups. If it wasnt for hockey he would just be a drunk swinging hammers.

 

[vanuck]

it's not about "corruption." it's about habits and atmosphere at any given moment. i think the canucks were a great team for kassian to be on - at the time - because it was a veteran group and he probably had a good support network amongst the team. but with a fresh wave of youth at the door it was time to let him go. yeah, it's possible that this regression to bad habits was even caused by the move back out east. but that's on kassian. you can give a guy support and i believe both gillis and benning extended him that honour, but at the end of the day he's responsible for his own actions, as are we all.

Forgot to get back to this.

The bolded still rings true today as much as it did when he first came on board. Veteran guys like the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis, Bieksa etc. were there his whole tenure in Vancouver. Ironically these are the people you want to be mentoring your younger guys. ZK had the potential to be a very useful top 9 power forward - and still does - while already being a good player in the present. He had all the toughness they claimed they wanted and that they gave up on him so soon speaks poorly in all areas of this trade.

Oh, they got worse off the ice too?

Worse off the ice? Huh? How exactly?

Asset-wise. They lost the 5th which was completely unnecessary.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

The period before his season ending injury, he was probably the most efficient point scorer for us.
Was like a PPG for a 10 game stretch averaging 11 mins a game.
He was becoming the perfect Sedin linemate and god knows what would've happened if not for the injury.

Seems like injuries was more effectively at affecting his performance than what we alleged off ice behavior.

Theo Fleury was stoned out of his tree and was playing some of the best hockey of his career, if what he wrote in his book is accurate. Dock Ellis apparently pitched a perfect game while on acid. I wouldn't view on-ice performance as an indicator of anything beyond the fact that they could be a functional alcoholic.

What I meant by it impacting Kassian negatively is that management was noticing he was partying too much. Perhaps he always needed to be roused to get onto the team bus. Perhaps he was on time for practice, but he'd have to run to the locker room to throw up because he was hung over. Perhaps management told him he was not allowed to go out clubbing, and he ignored it.

What we do know is that Kassian was put into Phase 2 substance abuse counselling. The only 2 conditions that would place him into Phase 2 would be if he violated the terms/conditions of phase 1 treatment or if he was charged criminally with something. Since it is looking like Kassian is not going to be charged with anything, that only leaves one option.

Kassian's nebulous back injury had a lot of people scratching their heads, as well as Willie's emphatic assertion he would not be available for the playoffs. It came off as really weird at the time and with hindsight, we can make a fairly educated guess at what was going on.

The other thing we do know about Kassian's situation is the actual incident. He involved in a potential drunk driving situation at 6AM and was himself intoxicated. His actions led to not only his truck being smashed, but getting injured and being unable to play for his team. I doubt this is a one-off, random occurrence given that he is in phase 2 of the NHL's substance abuse program.

 

[Intangibos]

I don't buy the notion that Kassian is some tortured soul, like a refugee from a Tom Waits song. He's not some hardluck dude, he's someone who apparently likes to party and it was affecting his performance negatively.

So you're saying he's not an alcoholic then, just a guy who likes to go out and party? Also, in what way was it affecting his performance negatively? He was our second best ES point scorer the last two seasons, IIRC. Only Bonino got more ES points/60 than Kassian did.

It is, but if we're having a discussion about it, speculation is all that we really can do. Also, given that the NHL substance abuse program guarantees anonymity and that no NHL team worth their salt is going to want to broadcast they have a drug problem going on with one of their players, it's not really surprising that we haven't heard much.

Huh? When SOB was missing practices and coming in hungover, we heard about it. When Rypien was having problems, we didn't get specifics, but we heard about it. I have no idea what you're talking about here, you don't have to know specifically that Kassian is an alcoholic for news of him missing practices or something like that coming out. Bizarre reply.

Ditto for teammates. They're always going to try and stick by the guy and help them anyway they can. It's just one of those things you do.

So you're saying nobody actually liked Kassian then? Interesting.

I may be misunderstanding you here, but are you saying that Kassian's alleged substance abuse problems were made worse by being traded?

I'm trying to explain to you that a big shift in someone's life can negatively affect someone with either depression or a substance abuse problem, and cause them to spiral downward. Everyone here is assuming he was traded because we all knew he was about to get moved to stage 2, but it's just as likely that these recent events were because of how he handled being traded. It's something a pro needs to do, but it's certainly not evidence that he was getting into trouble here.

They don't always, though, and again, the only time you'll be able to get better is if you want to get better. You could go to 1,000 therapy sessions and 100 rehab programs and if you don't want to change, it won't do a thing.

Another bizarre comment. I'm not sure if you realize this, but someone could check in to rehab and want to get help, but have something happen to them and they fall off the wagon. It happens all the time. Do you think addicts never relapse? Why do you think they give out badges at AA?

...because Rypien sought help and came to Canucks management. Also, his issues stemmed from mental illness and not going out and partying with girls until 6AM in the morning.

So you're saying management had no idea about Kassian? You are aware that stage 1 is often voluntary, I don't understand what you mean by Kassian not wanting help. Do you think Rypien ended up not wanting help when he spiraled downwards and tragically took his own life? I don't understand your way of thinking, how can you imply that because someone ****ed up they never wanted to get help in the first place. Not only that, but who cares if Kassian is partying until 6AM if there isn't a game or practice that day? There were no reports of him ever not showing up because he was out drinking, and he was always in shape. Do you think our other players never go out partying?

You can be a good guy and still be a problem or a distraction. I had a roommate in university who loved going out and partying all the time. I always had fun with him and he was one of the nicest guys in the world. I had to move out, though, because his partying was starting to encroach on my studies. He ended up flunking out, I didn't. He's still a nice guy, though.

Don't think Kassian was a distraction. He worked hard, he was in shape, and he never missed practice or anything. Being a fun guy doesn't mean you're a distraction. Was the whole team coming with him to his addiction meetings or what? Do you think when management spoke to him about his problems they had the team as an audience? Kassian showed no signs of being a distraction, other than the way management treated him and it came up in the media.

I am not a big fan of this management group thus far and feel that they've struck out more than they've hit home runs. But this is a hockey team where people were clamoring for Roger Takahashi to be fired. The mental picture of Kassian/Burnstein/Gilman/Henning all out at a Montreal strip club til 3AM is a hilarious one and makes me wonder what substances you might be on.

Roger Takahashi has more questionmarks than Burnstein. People only complained about Takahashi because of all the injuries our team endures, and they wondered if perhaps there was a flaw in Takahashi's program. That's hardly clamoring for him to get fired. As for the strip club, obviously it's a joke, but it's to illustrate that Benning has treated nearly everyone who has been shipped out poorly.

Lack isn't a starter
Clendening can't skate
Telling Garrison he isn't wanted here and trading him for peanuts, and saying he doesn't fit.
Obviously saying something to Bieksa to make him beak off in the media.
Saying Kassian wouldn't do what you want.
Getting rid of people who disagree with you like Gilman, Henning and Crawford.
Getting rid of the trainer whom the players love and is one of the best in the business, for some very strange reason.

The only people Gillis badmouthed where people who legitimately didn't give their all or were *******s. Like Shane O'Brien. Mike "Smug" Gillis exemplified the character that Benning seems to want in all his players, without having any himself.

 

[Intangibos]

Theo Fleury was stoned out of his tree and was playing some of the best hockey of his career, if what he wrote in his book is accurate. Dock Ellis apparently pitched a perfect game while on acid. I wouldn't view on-ice performance as an indicator of anything beyond the fact that they could be a functional alcoholic.

What I meant by it impacting Kassian negatively is that management was noticing he was partying too much. Perhaps he always needed to be roused to get onto the team bus. Perhaps he was on time for practice, but he'd have to run to the locker room to throw up because he was hung over. Perhaps management told him he was not allowed to go out clubbing, and he ignored it.

What we do know is that Kassian was put into Phase 2 substance abuse counselling. The only 2 conditions that would place him into Phase 2 would be if he violated the terms/conditions of phase 1 treatment or if he was charged criminally with something. Since it is looking like Kassian is not going to be charged with anything, that only leaves one option.

Kassian's nebulous back injury had a lot of people scratching their heads, as well as Willie's emphatic assertion he would not be available for the playoffs. It came off as really weird at the time and with hindsight, we can make a fairly educated guess at what was going on.

The other thing we do know about Kassian's situation is the actual incident. He involved in a potential drunk driving situation at 6AM and was himself intoxicated. His actions led to not only his truck being smashed, but getting injured and being unable to play for his team. I doubt this is a one-off, random occurrence given that he is in phase 2 of the NHL's substance abuse program.

What kind of nonsense is this? First of all, we have no idea what the rules for stage 1 are. Him just being involved in an 'incident' while intoxicated could automatically jump him to stage 2. Would you trade Ryan O'Reilly for Prust because he had his accident? I'd argue that showed a much bigger lapse of character than Kassian did by being in a car with someone else driving while intoxicated.

Also, his back injury being false? There were reports that the guy couldn't even get out of bed. Do you think he was being rolled around in a hospital bed from bar to bar?

Perhaps he was having problems getting to practice and just barely arrived on time, or wasn't wanting to wake up? Interesting that we had no reports of that despite hearing about it around the league when others do it. Perhaps management just doesn't like that Kassian doesn't play they way they want them to. Perhaps this has nothing to do with his issues. Perhaps it does but they just don't want to deal with it because they think it could be an issue down the road. Why are your hypotheticals more valid than anyone elses? In fact, they're less reasonable than other peoples. What if he was shooting up heroin between periods? Like what?

 

[vanuck]

Yeah not only was Ryan O'Reilly charged with DUI, he was also charged with leaving the scene too. Great show of character there.

 

[Zaddy91]

So you're saying he's not an alcoholic then, just a guy who likes to go out and party? Also, in what way was it affecting his performance negatively? He was our second best ES point scorer the last two seasons, IIRC. Only Bonino got more ES points/60 than Kassian did.



Huh? When SOB was missing practices and coming in hungover, we heard about it. When Rypien was having problems, we didn't get specifics, but we heard about it. I have no idea what you're talking about here, you don't have to know specifically that Kassian is an alcoholic for news of him missing practices or something like that coming out. Bizarre reply.



So you're saying nobody actually liked Kassian then? Interesting.



I'm trying to explain to you that a big shift in someone's life can negatively affect someone with either depression or a substance abuse problem, and cause them to spiral downward. Everyone here is assuming he was traded because we all knew he was about to get moved to stage 2, but it's just as likely that these recent events were because of how he handled being traded. It's something a pro needs to do, but it's certainly not evidence that he was getting into trouble here.




Another bizarre comment. I'm not sure if you realize this, but someone could check in to rehab and want to get help, but have something happen to them and they fall off the wagon. It happens all the time. Do you think addicts never relapse? Why do you think they give out badges at AA?



So you're saying management had no idea about Kassian? You are aware that stage 1 is often voluntary, I don't understand what you mean by Kassian not wanting help. Do you think Rypien ended up not wanting help when he spiraled downwards and tragically took his own life? I don't understand your way of thinking, how can you imply that because someone ****ed up they never wanted to get help in the first place. Not only that, but who cares if Kassian is partying until 6AM if there isn't a game or practice that day? There were no reports of him ever not showing up because he was out drinking, and he was always in shape. Do you think our other players never go out partying?




Don't think Kassian was a distraction. He worked hard, he was in shape, and he never missed practice or anything. Being a fun guy doesn't mean you're a distraction. Was the whole team coming with him to his addiction meetings or what? Do you think when management spoke to him about his problems they had the team as an audience? Kassian showed no signs of being a distraction, other than the way management treated him and it came up in the media.



Roger Takahashi has more questionmarks than Burnstein. People only complained about Takahashi because of all the injuries our team endures, and they wondered if perhaps there was a flaw in Takahashi's program. That's hardly clamoring for him to get fired. As for the strip club, obviously it's a joke, but it's to illustrate that Benning has treated nearly everyone who has been shipped out poorly.

Lack isn't a starter
Clendening can't skate
Telling Garrison he isn't wanted here and trading him for peanuts, and saying he doesn't fit.
Obviously saying something to Bieksa to make him beak off in the media.
Saying Kassian wouldn't do what you want.
Getting rid of people who disagree with you like Gilman, Henning and Crawford.
Getting rid of the trainer whom the players love and is one of the best in the business, for some very strange reason.

The only people Gillis badmouthed where people who legitimately didn't give their all or were *******s. Like Shane O'Brien. Mike "Smug" Gillis exemplified the character that Benning seems to want in all his players, without having any himself.

top bur

 

[Intangibos]

top bur

Explain how he didn't? He did more than just show up, he was also always in good shape, and got in better shape every year. There are countless players who don't put the effort in during the offseason, but Kassian did. Interesting for someone who is out partying every night until the morning is in better shape every year.

I'm sorry if hitting everything and fighting everyone and making that his game instead of scoring goals is the only way to be a hard worker. I wish the Sedins weren't so lazy as well.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Yeah not only was Ryan O'Reilly charged with DUI, he was also charged with leaving the scene too. Great show of character there.

Im not sure you know exactly what character is... And also seems you also are saying being a good influence, a mentor, team player, hard working are all the same thing... They are not...

You see Character is not the lack of making mistakes, it is what you learn from them and do afterwards that builds your character...

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Explain how he didn't? He did more than just show up, he was also always in good shape, and got in better shape every year. There are countless players who don't put the effort in during the offseason, but Kassian did. Interesting for someone who is out partying every night until the morning is in better shape every year.

I'm sorry if hitting everything and fighting everyone and making that his game instead of scoring goals is the only way to be a hard worker. I wish the Sedins weren't so lazy as well.

Well they dont drug test in the off season...

JK...

 

[Zaddy91]

Im not sure you know exactly what character is... And also seems you also are saying being a good influence, a mentor, team player, hard working are all the same thing... They are not...

You see Character is not the lack of making mistakes, it is what you learn from them and do afterwards that builds your character...

the argument isnt even about hockey anymore it's logical understanding of being an adult in today's society

 

[vanuck]

^ Adults have addictions too, if that's what this whole substance abuse program is about.

Im not sure you know exactly what character is... And also seems you also are saying being a good influence, a mentor, team player, hard working are all the same thing... They are not...

You see Character is not the lack of making mistakes, it is what you learn from them and do afterwards that builds your character...

In the strictest dictionary sense yes... or it could mean being honest and accountable for your actions. The term as it's used in hockey is so nebulous to begin that it's essentially meaningless, which is the point.

 

[Intangibos]

Im not sure you know exactly what character is... And also seems you also are saying being a good influence, a mentor, team player, hard working are all the same thing... They are not...

You see Character is not the lack of making mistakes, it is what you learn from them and do afterwards that builds your character...

The point is there are players with bigger character issues than Kassian by far, who are still excellent hockey players. You wouldn't pay to get rid of O'Reilly or Kane because they get drunk and do stupid stuff. It's not like Kassian is a 4th line plug, he is a solid NHL player who was our second best ES P/60 scorer ahead of the Sedins the last two years. I'm not saying he's an allstar by any means, but he's a useful player who you don't pay to get rid of. Just like you don't see Buffalo paying to get rid of O'Reilly because he had his DUI or Chicago paying to get rid of Kane because he parties all summer and comes to camp out of shape.

In fact, it seems Benning is the only active GM doing these types of deals. Paying to get rid of Kassian and dumping Seguin for a very poor return. Now Seguin is one of the top scorers in the league and Boston is in the dumps. Either Benning is a million steps ahead of 29 other GMs or he is the one guy trailing behind.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

What kind of nonsense is this? First of all, we have no idea what the rules for stage 1 are.

Actually, we do.

http://sportsdocuments.com/2013/07/nhl-substance-abuse-program/

I'll phrase this another way. Here is what we know about Kassian:

- 2 teams have "given up" on him (Buffalo and Vancouver)
- He was drunk at 6AM and (this is the important part) got injured as a result of those actions
- He was placed into Phase 2 of the NHL's substance abuse program. If you read the above link, it outlines things very clearly.
- Kassian was not charged, which means there can only be 1 explanation as to how he got placed into phase 2.
- Information on Kassian's back injury was incredibly tight lipped, moreso than you would expect, particularly for someone "out for the season." If you can't recall this, welp.
- There's this interesting quote,

A former Canucks teammate of Kassian was quoted anonymously by TVA Sports on Sunday about Kassian’s back problems last season:

“When you go out too often in bars, it is not good for your back!” was the translation.

From the TVA article,

Plusieurs anciens coéquipiers de Kassian avec les Canucks ou les Sabres le décrivaient comme un party animal.

I don't know if you can speak French, but it should be pretty clear what is being said there (former teammates of Kassian on the Sabres/Canucks say he was a "party animal." I don't know what "party animal" means in English, though.

It seems pretty clear to me what is going on. I get that you're a fan of the guy, but a spade's a spade.

 

[Intangibos]

You lose all credibility on the subject as soon as you say Buffalo gave up on him. It was a blue chip for blue chip trade. There is a reason they promptly gave Hodgson a massive contract when he arrived there.

Yann Sauve got hit by a car as well, **** happens sometimes. If he was taking a cab home from the bar at 6 am and the bridge he was on collapsed, well that sucks but it didn't collapse because of him. He shouldn't have been in the car, but someone without a drinking problem could easily find themselves in the same situation. Are you saying being a passenger in a car accident that you get an injury in shows more lack of character than actually crashing your car while driving under the influence? Interesting perspective.

Also, in that link you sent, all I see is that if he violates his rules he gets placed in stage 2. I don't see an actual list of the rules.

Virtanen has been called a party animal as well, better ship him out for Paul Bissonnette.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Do you understand what quotation marks can represent? That's the narrative that has been floated around regarding Kassian. I don't necessarily believe in it, hence the quote marks, but if you have a solid blue chip prospect and he is doing gangbusters for you, why would you trade him? The answer is that you wouldn't, because he's an asset to your team and not a liability.

This is why Patrick Kane got a free pass up until what has happened recently. If Zack Kassian was as amazing as you said, he wouldn't be on his 3rd team and running out of chances. Please don't mistake this as me hating on the guy -- I hope he sorts out his problems and can rebound and become a solid NHL player.

And no. I don't really appreciate you trying to put words into my mouth. I am saying that there comes a time when you need to make individuals responsible for their actions.

Kassian has a reputation, across 2 different teams, of being a party animal. A former Canucks teammate of his said that his back issues were bogus. Kassian was the one making the decision to stay out until dawn, after he made a promise to be on the "straight and narrow" going into this season. Are you capable of making the connection here?

He needs to take some responsibility for his actions. To answer your question from earlier, I don't know if Kassian is an alcoholic. But I am fairly confident in saying that his partying was having enough of an impact that his employers were concerned about it.

There is a reason they promptly gave Hodgson a massive contract when he arrived there.

Yes. And that reason is called "Mike Gillis and Alain Vigneault."

 

[me2]

I would bet my horse kassian would be claimed for ****ing sure. None of this news was out in the open.

I doubt the rest of the league didn't know about it.

 

[bsjezz]

in this thread: people getting their hackles raised because it turns out the general manager of an organisation knows more about what's going on within it than they do

 

[vanuck]

Do you understand what quotation marks can represent? That's the narrative that has been floated around regarding Kassian. I don't necessarily believe in it, hence the quote marks, but if you have a solid blue chip prospect and he is doing gangbusters for you, why would you trade him? The answer is that you wouldn't, because he's an asset to your team and not a liability.

This is why Patrick Kane got a free pass up until what has happened recently. If Zack Kassian was as amazing as you said, he wouldn't be on his 3rd team and running out of chances. Please don't mistake this as me hating on the guy -- I hope he sorts out his problems and can rebound and become a solid NHL player.

And no. I don't really appreciate you trying to put words into my mouth. I am saying that there comes a time when you need to make individuals responsible for their actions.

Kassian has a reputation, across 2 different teams, of being a party animal. A former Canucks teammate of his said that his back issues were bogus. Kassian was the one making the decision to stay out until dawn, after he made a promise to be on the "straight and narrow" going into this season. Are you capable of making the connection here?

He needs to take some responsibility for his actions. To answer your question from earlier, I don't know if Kassian is an alcoholic. But I am fairly confident in saying that his partying was having enough of an impact that his employers were concerned about it.



Yes. And that reason is called "Mike Gillis and Alain Vigneault."

Being a party animal in of itself isn't necessarily a death knell though. DAL and CHI have put up with partiers like Kane and Seguin because they bring something on the ice: they're good hockey players. It's not black and white because at the end of the day, the goal is to win Stanley Cups and you won't see those teams dump those 2 just because they're known for their off-ice behaviour (going to bars/clubs).

Similarly, VAN can't afford to be dumping good players (Zack Kassian) while they're in the position they are now: a mediocre hockey club that has bled assets and value continuously over the past calendar year. This despite the intention to compete.

On top of that it didn't even help a potential rebuild (losing the 5th). So they got nowhere, really.