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Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)

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valkynax said:
Oh I completely agree, no one's dumb enough to tell their fans: hey we gonna give up and get picks.

But how they would act is a different thing. Remember the old Leafs and Flames? Our team is in that state right now, futureless and cupless.
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The Flames example is convenient now that they look terrible and their foil, the Oilers, stumbled upon the best player for this next generation. But how would that be looking if the Flames continued on an upward trajectory following 2014 and the Oilers landed Dylan Strome instead of Connor McDavid?

The Flames were never as good as the Canucks so it's not a great comparison. They essentially were a playoff bubble team with Iginla, Kiprusoff, Regher, Bouwmeester, etc. as the stale old core and then Kipper retired and Iginla couldn't continue to pot 40 with Matt Stajan as his center. They were certainly a bad team, but if they had held on to Iginla and J-Bo and traded prospects to keep the playoff dream alive in 2009, they'd be so much worse. In fact, they'd probably be where the 2014 Oilers were, with no Connor McDavid in the draft to save them. That's where the Canucks are heading, and it's much, much scarier.
 
banme said:
A bottom 5 team being forced into a rebuild by terrible management.
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Agreed. So don't you think a new GM would rather take over the Minnesota Wild than the Canucks? If you were a GM which team would you rather take over to try and win a cup in the next five years?
 
The only mandate of this organization should be to seek out and target players that would fit into the 7-8 player excellent core that is needed to be a contender.

If Benning had made a couple moves at this point where you could say "yes he's doing a bad job at most of the business side of hockey BUT we've got Nylander Theodore Tkachuk McCann Fosling Clague " who have or could project to, or perhaps a trade that brought in a player or 2 that fits the description then the landscape starts to look a lot different.

Fans want hope and entertainment. Targeting Sutter Gudbranson Granlund Eriksson Baertschi and Dorsett (not at 2.65) could all be palatable if we looked like we have or could have those components in place but we don't and for some reason the management is ok with surrounding the Sedin's when we all know that in a few yrs or even now we can't look at them as viable players to try and win with. My worst fear is that we continue down this path. We have lost an entires draft worth of picks which would typically give us a core player. We missed on Virtanen (I'm not saying he still can't be a solid contributor). Tkachuk is tough to stomach because he's quickly establishing himself as one of these players.

Our GM who came from an organization that drafted Bergeron Marchand Lucic and Krecji in the 2nd and 3rd rounds has traded away 6 picks in these rounds in 3 yrs and threw in Shinkaruk and McCann 2 1st rounders into deals for support pieces.......he doesn't get it.
 
vancityluongo said:
The Flames example is convenient now that they look terrible and their foil, the Oilers, stumbled upon the best player for this next generation. But how would that be looking if the Flames continued on an upward trajectory following 2014 and the Oilers landed Dylan Strome instead of Connor McDavid?

The Flames were never as good as the Canucks so it's not a great comparison. They essentially were a playoff bubble team with Iginla, Kiprusoff, Regher, Bouwmeester, etc. as the stale old core and then Kipper retired and Iginla couldn't continue to pot 40 with Matt Stajan as his center. They were certainly a bad team, but if they had held on to Iginla and J-Bo and traded prospects to keep the playoff dream alive in 2009, they'd be so much worse. In fact, they'd probably be where the 2014 Oilers were, with no Connor McDavid in the draft to save them. That's where the Canucks are heading, and it's much, much scarier.
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At the very least I'm hoping this team would stop p!ssing away picks and sacrificing future for their stupid "win now" plan.

As for the earlier post about a team trending upward, I believe playoff is only valuable if a team has either a truly legit shot at the cup or a stack of talents who can benefit from the experience. Of course part of the reason I've come to the conclusion is the drafting system that consistently reward some of THE most incompetent and disgraceful teams with the best talents...
 
vancityluongo said:
Agreed. So don't you think a new GM would rather take over the Minnesota Wild than the Canucks? If you were a GM which team would you rather take over to try and win a cup in the next five years?
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It depends how good I was at my job, I could see a good GM turning the Canucks around in a couple of years using the next 2-3 drafts to find core players. A good GM, hence why we need to fire our current GM asap.
 
banme said:
It depends how good I was at my job, I could see a good GM turning the Canucks around in a couple of years using the next 2-3 drafts to find core players. A good GM, hence why we need to fire our current GM asap.
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Going to be very hard to turn this team around in a couple of years when you're stuck with Eriksson's contract for the next 6 years, and what I anticipate will also be an albatross of a contract for Gudbranson.
 
y2kcanucks said:
Going to be very hard to turn this team around in a couple of years when you're stuck with Eriksson's contract for the next 6 years, and what I anticipate will also be an albatross of a contract for Gudbranson.
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We can only hope Gudbranson is dealt by the TDL. His contract will be a steaming turd if he isn't.

Was a terrible acquisition and redundant with Tryamkin here.
 
Momesso said:
We can only hope Gudbranson is dealt by the TDL. His contract will be a steaming turd if he isn't.

Was a terrible acquisition and redundant with Tryamkin here.
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They won't trade Gudbranson..........I'd be shocked if they did. The only hope you have here is that Benning is fired before he can sign him to a bloated deal.
 
We could have just kept McCann+ the pick and signed some scoring help if we needed it rather than trading for Gudbranson.. So many missed opportunities to make this team actually look pretty good and this management group has failed at it.
 
Benning will get fired before next season.

I've never been so certain.
 
Beansy said:
They won't trade Gudbranson..........I'd be shocked if they did. The only hope you have here is that Benning is fired before he can sign him to a bloated deal.
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I think it was in one of Botchs recent articles (the provies?) where suggested that management recently proclaimed Gudbranson as part of the untouchable group but then sort of made him available shortly after reasoning the current play of Stecher and Tryamkin providing them with unexpected depth.

Still dont get the thinking behind all of this as 10 solid games dont turn a rookie and a reliable NHL defender but this is what we should be used by now with Benning and Weisbrod.
 
Donuts said:
.

he needs to get better in drafting early 1st rounders. just go for consensus picks.
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No, he just needs to get his stuff together and find a nice scouting job w/ some other organization... Benning shouldn't be around a phone or draft table. Just take the reports he files and let your cross-checkers sort it out.
 
Ok so i thought I would just give it a go to list things that I don’t like about this management. So here you go in no particular order, just the things that popped up into my mind while writing this:

- Rushing prospects into the league because you need entry level contracts to comply with the salary cap
- Trading away young prospects just because they don’t develop as fast as you hoped
- Main reason for acquiring certain players appearing to be previous connections instead of talent level (Medicine Hat connection, Weisbrod – CGY)
- Acquiring players because they fit “age gap” instead of “talent gap”
- Pushing players you acquired into favorable situations (ice time, zone starts, line mates) to prove you made a good deal (Sutter, Granlund, Miller)
- Pushing out players on low value because they are “too previous regime” (Hamhuis, Lack, Kassian, Matthias, Richardson, Garrison, Bieksa…)
- Selling fans intelligence short when changing goals every other week depending on the last two games (100 pt team, rebuild, contending, it wont be easy…)
- Failing to sell high on assets or sell at all (Hamhuis, Vrbata, Lack)
- Claiming to be challenged with previous regime contracts when its actually those players that carry your team above “horrendous bad” stats (Sedins, Edler and Burrows this year)
- Infamously proclaim your main concern for UFA season will be term and that you will not look into signing any long term contract with older guys so you don’t hinder the teams future only to go out to sign a 31 year old (good player) to a 6 year buy-out-roof contract!
- Cancelling the townhall meetings because you get grilled for what you have done so far
- Showing no sign of self criticism – “when asked what you d do differently – don’t answer with “nothing” if your team is tracking incredibly bad
- Lack of understanding to maximize your assets – “it doesn’t matter that we only have the 3rd round pick instead of the 2nd rounder since we picked the same player we would have in round 2” – well its not like you could have traded down from round 2 to 3 and gain and extra pick or something
- Contradict yourself within weeks, sometimes even within the same interview!
- Have no idea about consistency and patience when starting to build the “new core”. Have an extra forward in Summer and lack D, go make a trade. A few months later you need more scoring? Just trade a D for it. Always loosing value in the deals because you are never dealing from a position of strength but from a need of fixing a weakness
- Pretending the internet memory does not exist. Benning in 2014 “This is a team we can turn around in a hurry”. Linden in 2016: “The biggest challenge I have is that people are expecting this would be a quick turn around”
- Saying “too many voices is bad” because you don’t like to have someone pointing out potential issues you might create with your decisions and then fire the “different voices”. If 3 idiots jumping a cliff its not great team work. It would have been better if one them was smart enough to suggest its a bad idea to jump.
- Proclaiming you can pick an NHL player with every draft pick you make and then fail and the most basics for developing a young player
- Trading away players for so called character issues (Kassian, McCann) and then acquiring or trying to acquire character nightmares (Prust, Kane)
- Sticking to a coach who is clearly over his head just because he is a) from Medicine Hat, b) he is one of your last “get out of jail” cards
- Sucking at evaluating true value of your players and put too much stock on “old time” things like hard to play against, tough guy….
- Paying Dorsett 3rd line money to be a glorified 4th liner that has to play in the top 6 once a single top 6 winger (Hansen) is injured, not to mention that this is with foundational Center Sutter playing Wing as well.
- Also saying that Dorsett is the kind of guy that they want all their young guys look up to and emulate their drive like him which probably means start useless scraps while being down by 3 goals or just randomly through some fists

This is just on top of my head coming home from a busy night shift. Probably could list 5 times more if really tried.
 
Peter10 said:
Ok so i thought I would just give it a go to list things that I don’t like about this management. So here you go in no particular order, just the things that popped up into my mind while writing this:

- Rushing prospects into the league because you need entry level contracts to comply with the salary cap
- Trading away young prospects just because they don’t develop as fast as you hoped
- Main reason for acquiring certain players appearing to be previous connections instead of talent level (Medicine Hat connection, Weisbrod – CGY)
- Acquiring players because they fit “age gap†instead of “talent gapâ€
- Pushing players you acquired into favorable situations (ice time, zone starts, line mates) to prove you made a good deal (Sutter, Granlund, Miller)
- Pushing out players on low value because they are “too previous regime†(Hamhuis, Lack, Kassian, Matthias, Richardson, Garrison, Bieksa…)
- Selling fans intelligence short when changing goals every other week depending on the last two games (100 pt team, rebuild, contending, it wont be easy…)
- Failing to sell high on assets or sell at all (Hamhuis, Vrbata, Lack)
- Claiming to be challenged with previous regime contracts when its actually those players that carry your team above “horrendous bad†stats (Sedins, Edler and Burrows this year)
- Infamously proclaim your main concern for UFA season will be term and that you will not look into signing any long term contract with older guys so you don’t hinder the teams future only to go out to sign a 31 year old (good player) to a 6 year buy-out-roof contract!
- Cancelling the townhall meetings because you get grilled for what you have done so far
- Showing no sign of self criticism – “when asked what you d do differently – don’t answer with “nothing†if your team is tracking incredibly bad
- Lack of understanding to maximize your assets – “it doesn’t matter that we only have the 3rd round pick instead of the 2nd rounder since we picked the same player we would have in round 2†– well its not like you could have traded down from round 2 to 3 and gain and extra pick or something
- Contradict yourself within weeks, sometimes even within the same interview!
- Have no idea about consistency and patience when starting to build the “new coreâ€. Have an extra forward in Summer and lack D, go make a trade. A few months later you need more scoring? Just trade a D for it. Always loosing value in the deals because you are never dealing from a position of strength but from a need of fixing a weakness
- Pretending the internet memory does not exist. Benning in 2014 “This is a team we can turn around in a hurryâ€. Linden in 2016: “The biggest challenge I have is that people are expecting this would be a quick turn aroundâ€
- Saying “too many voices is bad†because you don’t like to have someone pointing out potential issues you might create with your decisions and then fire the “different voicesâ€. If 3 idiots jumping a cliff its not great team work. It would have been better if one them was smart enough to suggest its a bad idea to jump.
- Proclaiming you can pick an NHL player with every draft pick you make and then fail and the most basics for developing a young player
- Trading away players for so called character issues (Kassian, McCann) and then acquiring or trying to acquire character nightmares (Prust, Kane)
- Sticking to a coach who is clearly over his head just because he is a) from Medicine Hat, b) he is one of your last “get out of jail†cards
- Sucking at evaluating true value of your players and put too much stock on “old time†things like hard to play against, tough guy….
- Paying Dorsett 3rd line money to be a glorified 4th liner that has to play in the top 6 once a single top 6 winger (Hansen) is injured, not to mention that this is with foundational Center Sutter playing Wing as well.
- Also saying that Dorsett is the kind of guy that they want all their young guys look up to and emulate their drive like him which probably means start useless scraps while being down by 3 goals or just randomly through some fists

This is just on top of my head coming home from a busy night shift. Probably could list 5 times more if really tried.
Click to expand...

Adding to this:

-Not papering the AHL eligible players last year.
-Embarrassing first attempt at Tryamkins first contract that was ridiculed around the league.
-So many 2nd round picks wasted while claiming to be a draftist.
-No direction whatsoever, they bend any direction with the slightest breeze.

Hopefully Linden steps down and the whole crew of this ship gets tossed out.
 
Canucks ownership were crowing publicly about how they won the Cup before they finished the series. This offended the great Bettman who fixed the series (an new record longest suspension for the Sedins bodygaurd was enough. Sedins ended.)! Then Canuck GM said officiating cost them the Cup. Epic!

Now firmly ensconced as NHL whipping boy they go all in on aging Sedins. Players flee team and avoid it in general. This weakens the team until they get here, an AHL team in the NHL.

New coaching or management won't make any difference. New ownership won't end the franchises' woes. They are branded. Bettman is tenured. Canucks are doomed forever. Enjoy!
 
TheBleedingEdge said:
Adding to this:

-Not papering the AHL eligible players last year.
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This really is complete BS that some posters continually bring up.

The only players that were effected were Horvat, Hutton, and Granlund. NHL players don't typically get send down to play in the AHL playoffs period. One reason may be that teams get contacted about the availability of players for the world championships. Horvat isn't going to play in the AHL playoffs. He's earned that right and playing in the AHL playoffs ain't gonna help his development. Hutton was good enough to play in the World Championships for Team Canada so no he's not going to play for the Comets in the playoffs. Same thing applies to Granlund.

This is as much of a non issue as it gets but Benning haters love to bring it up as if it's something they forgot to do.
 
Friedman wrote yesterday that the sabres were really only interested in tanev
 
Tanev, Gudbranson, Edler, Baertschi, Hansen all need to go for picks/prospects. Same with Miller and Burrows at the deadline. Sutter needs to be exposed for the expansion draft. Benning needs to put his ego aside and do a proper rebuild.
 
F A N said:
This really is complete BS that some posters continually bring up.

The only players that were effected were Horvat, Hutton, and Granlund. NHL players don't typically get send down to play in the AHL playoffs period. One reason may be that teams get contacted about the availability of players for the world championships. Horvat isn't going to play in the AHL playoffs. He's earned that right and playing in the AHL playoffs ain't gonna help his development. Hutton was good enough to play in the World Championships for Team Canada so no he's not going to play for the Comets in the playoffs. Same thing applies to Granlund.

This is as much of a non issue as it gets but Benning haters love to bring it up as if it's something they forgot to do.
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Weber could have been papered down as well. And Granlund wasn't too good for the AHL last season.

It's not just about making then eligible for the playoffs. It's about making them AHL eligible for the rest of the season. That flexibility can be helpful down the stretch to deal with injuries, signings, and recalls.
 
Yeah, makes it seem like the canucks only wanted kane if he came cheap.
 
F A N said:
This really is complete BS that some posters continually bring up.

The only players that were effected were Horvat, Hutton, and Granlund. NHL players don't typically get send down to play in the AHL playoffs period. One reason may be that teams get contacted about the availability of players for the world championships. Horvat isn't going to play in the AHL playoffs. He's earned that right and playing in the AHL playoffs ain't gonna help his development. Hutton was good enough to play in the World Championships for Team Canada so no he's not going to play for the Comets in the playoffs. Same thing applies to Granlund.

This is as much of a non issue as it gets but Benning haters love to bring it up as if it's something they forgot to do.
Click to expand...

Ok, lets just say for the moment this is a non-issue...what about the rest of the list? Benning and Co. have created such a mess that they aren't going to get cut any slack for anything, nor should they.
 
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