Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)

[The Drop]

So much this. Nobody is gonna come in and rescue this team. Too slow too weak and not skilled enough. We legit have 6 top 9 forwards when healthy. The Hutton Gudbranson top 4 pairing is getting worked. What happened with Hutton's skating? Edler's offence is gone.

Gotta laugh at Willies predicament. Last year they hand him a bunch of players asked to play roles they weren't ready for.(McCann Virtanen Baertschi) give him a terrible supporting cast (Prust Bartkowski Weber) A few injuries and complete utter failure 28th.

This year they ask him to adhere to a tight boring defensive system (backfiring) They force feed him Virtanen (disaster). Again fail to pick up good depth players let Hamhuis walk and expose Hutton. The big offseason signing (Eriksson) has been terrible outside of about 5 games.

I echo the sentiment around here that let's rip off the band aid....fire Willie and expose the GM for the terrible job he's doing.

Wow. You sure have come around

 

[The Drop]

Best way to protest is don't go to games and don't buy any of their stuff.

I haven't bought any Canuck merchandise for years. Ditto with not going to games. Best way to protest.

 

[Hit the post]

So much this. Nobody is gonna come in and rescue this team. Too slow too weak and not skilled enough. We legit have 6 top 9 forwards when healthy. The Hutton Gudbranson top 4 pairing is getting worked. What happened with Hutton's skating? Edler's offence is gone.

Gotta laugh at Willies predicament. Last year they hand him a bunch of players asked to play roles they weren't ready for.(McCann Virtanen Baertschi) give him a terrible supporting cast (Prust Bartkowski Weber) A few injuries and complete utter failure 28th.

This year they ask him to adhere to a tight boring defensive system (backfiring) They force feed him Virtanen (disaster). Again fail to pick up good depth players let Hamhuis walk and expose Hutton. The big offseason signing (Eriksson) has been terrible outside of about 5 games.

I echo the sentiment around here that let's rip off the band aid....fire Willie and expose the GM for the terrible job he's doing.

Welcome to the dark side my apprentice....

 

[racerjoe]

Ferraro is more qualified for the job than Linden was when we hired him. Ferraro for prez, Pierre for GM, Button for Head Scout. The TSN management team.

Bobby Mac would have to be there somewhere too!

 

[sting101]

Welcome to the dark side my apprentice....

Hahaha nice.
It's not even fun playing Devils advocate when someone's doing this bad. There's still things I like and the team and assets he was left were junk but the results speak for themselves.
The people I know within the organization (who I respect immensely) have been bullish on Jim. Really hyped his ability to draft and assess players. They were excited to have a rink rat with an apparent keen eye for talent. I guess it's made me a supporter/defender while everyone calls him names and attacks him.
Never expected him to turn it around in 2 1/2 yrs but also didn't expect him to be such an absolute disaster in terms of Contracts, Analytics, Collective understanding, Cap Management, Asset Management and even the Pro Scouting, Roster Management and Amateur Scouting the areas he should excel in are looking bad.
Would love for him to redeem himself for all of our sakes but I'm afraid he's in over his head.

BTW....love the Tom Renney suggestion. Hadn't thought about him and it's unlikely Tallon leaves his senior position in Miami to come to this pressure cooker. Especially with a 3 yr contract in his back pocket.

 

[Hit the post]

The people I know within the organization (who I respect immensely) have been bullish on Jim. Really hyped his ability to draft and assess players. They were excited to have a rink rat with an apparent keen eye for talent. I guess it's made me a supporter/defender while everyone calls him names and attacks him.

I never thought he was a complete moron. If he stuck to overhauling the amateur scouting, I think he would be quite solid in this regards. Problem is, I don't see anyone else currently in management able to handle all the other duties of a GM.

 

[I in the Eye]

Hahaha nice.
It's not even fun playing Devils advocate when someone's doing this bad. There's still things I like and the team and assets he was left were junk but the results speak for themselves.
The people I know within the organization (who I respect immensely) have been bullish on Jim. Really hyped his ability to draft and assess players. They were excited to have a rink rat with an apparent keen eye for talent. I guess it's made me a supporter/defender while everyone calls him names and attacks him.
Never expected him to turn it around in 2 1/2 yrs but also didn't expect him to be such an absolute disaster in terms of Contracts, Analytics, Collective understanding, Cap Management, Asset Management and even the Pro Scouting, Roster Management and Amateur Scouting the areas he should excel in are looking bad.
Would love for him to redeem himself for all of our sakes but I'm afraid he's in over his head.

BTW....love the Tom Renney suggestion. Hadn't thought about him and it's unlikely Tallon leaves his senior position in Miami to come to this pressure cooker. Especially with a 3 yr contract in his back pocket.

That's the thing... optimism is nice... but optimism needs to be handled with care, because optimism can feed into normalization... and the two don't always belong together.

Many posts that were optimistic towards Benning were also trying to normalize Benning and the job he was doing. Benning is not a normal GM. His sinking of the team was not a normal process. Benning is an abnormal GM. Benning sank the team, with his moves. Even if someone argues that the Canucks were sinking before he arrived (and tough waters were surely ahead, regardless), these arguers should still be able to appreciate that Benning filled (and continues to fill) buckets of water, to pour into his sinking boat. So, giving him a chance consistently over time to prove himself against his critics, supporting him and his ideas consistently over time as a result, is dangerous (in the context of winning or losing a game) - if the goal for Canucks fans is for the Canucks to win ASAP. The more support Benning has, the Canucks being able to be successful ASAP becomes more in danger. Most of Benning's moves have been alarming, since the beginning... and enough time has past for I think anyone to now be able to see and concede a trend.

At the same time, the pig is still in the the air, and while the pig is still in the air, there is still a chance that the pig can grow wings and fly away to safety... and I'm still hopeful and optimistic that the pig can. I want the pig to fly. I want Benning to be a good GM. I'm still optimistic... while being pretty damn certain that the pig is as good as dead, and that the Canucks are a disaster. If it was going to be difficult pre-Benning for the Canucks to be successful, post-Benning just took the Canucks to a whole lower level of ****ed.

 

[geebaan]

That's the thing... optimism is nice... but optimism needs to be handled with care, because optimism can feed into normalization... and the two don't always belong together.

Many posts that were optimistic towards Benning were also trying to normalize Benning and the job he was doing. Benning is not a normal GM. His sinking of the team was not a normal process. Benning is an abnormal GM. Benning sank the team, with his moves. Even if someone argues that the Canucks were sinking before he arrived (and tough waters were surely ahead, regardless), these arguers should still be able to appreciate that Benning filled (and continues to fill) buckets of water, to pour into his sinking boat. So, giving him a chance consistently over time to prove himself against his critics, supporting him and his ideas consistently over time as a result, is dangerous (in the context of winning or losing a game) - if the goal for Canucks fans is for the Canucks to win ASAP. The more support Benning has, the Canucks being able to be successful ASAP becomes more in danger. Most of Benning's moves have been alarming, since the beginning... and enough time has past for I think anyone to now be able to see and concede a trend.

At the same time, the pig is still in the the air, and while the pig is still in the air, there is still a chance that the pig can grow wings and fly away to safety... and I'm still hopeful and optimistic that the pig can. I want the pig to fly. I want Benning to be a good GM. I'm still optimistic... while being pretty damn certain that the pig is as good as dead, and that the Canucks are a disaster. If it was going to be difficult pre-Benning for the Canucks to be successful, post-Benning just took the Canucks to a whole lower level of ****ed.

This is exactly it for me. I WANT Benning to succeed. I WANT the Canucks to succeed. But I am going to analyze, and be critical of moves that I think are bad, and he's supplied many of those. Hence why I don't' think he'll succeed ultimately, and why I think someone else, at this point, would be better off doing the job.

 

[tantalum]

Yep. I may not think a move is a good one but damn do I ever want it to be. Every single one of them. But it's just not happening with this management crew. I've seen a few times over the past few weeks a GM really needs 3-5 years before you can judge them. In general sure, but there are outliers and I think Benning is that outlier.

Let's be honest, are they going to learn how to construct a team in the next 6 months? Or is what we see now what we are going to see then? I'm betting on the latter and because of that you may as well let the hammer fall now. Give a new team a chance to make moves heading to the deadline. The few that they can make that is.

 

[SgtToody]

Virtually every attempt he's made to 'better' the team has led to us bleeding a draft pick and that is the antithesis of improving; Benning has effectively sucked the hope from this team, and while he and the scouts have made some so-far astute picks at the draft table, his trading and overall horrible asset management has been more than a counter weight. Those who can remember the final months of the Poile regime can relate, as well as survivors from the Jack Gordon days. But even those guys knocked one out of the park...

 

[Songtao 88]

That's the thing... optimism is nice... but optimism needs to be handled with care, because optimism can feed into normalization... and the two don't always belong together.

Many posts that were optimistic towards Benning were also trying to normalize Benning and the job he was doing. Benning is not a normal GM. His sinking of the team was not a normal process. Benning is an abnormal GM. Benning sank the team, with his moves. Even if someone argues that the Canucks were sinking before he arrived (and tough waters were surely ahead, regardless), these arguers should still be able to appreciate that Benning filled (and continues to fill) buckets of water, to pour into his sinking boat. So, giving him a chance consistently over time to prove himself against his critics, supporting him and his ideas consistently over time as a result, is dangerous (in the context of winning or losing a game) - if the goal for Canucks fans is for the Canucks to win ASAP. The more support Benning has, the Canucks being able to be successful ASAP becomes more in danger. Most of Benning's moves have been alarming, since the beginning... and enough time has past for I think anyone to now be able to see and concede a trend.

At the same time, the pig is still in the the air, and while the pig is still in the air, there is still a chance that the pig can grow wings and fly away to safety... and I'm still hopeful and optimistic that the pig can. I want the pig to fly. I want Benning to be a good GM. I'm still optimistic... while being pretty damn certain that the pig is as good as dead, and that the Canucks are a disaster. If it was going to be difficult pre-Benning for the Canucks to be successful, post-Benning just took the Canucks to a whole lower level of ****ed.

Several times I have appreciated the language that you use, I in the Eye. You like metaphors, many of which seem to be business and management related. Keep up the good work.

 

[mathonwy]

It's just hockey for god's sake. I love it as much as any fanatic but I really think protesting something that is here for pure frivolous entertainment is the definition of first world problems.

Absolutely agree. I have better things to do with my time. Like watch paint dry.

Best way to protest is don't go to games and don't buy any of their stuff.

I haven't bought any Canuck merchandise for years. Ditto with not going to games. Best way to protest.

To each their own but I kindly ask you to not denigrate those that DO believe that this is a cause worth demonstrating about.

If you want to watch paint dry, go ahead, I won't judge you.

I'm not part of any other online group so my experience is limited but I just find it curious that people are willing to hurl insults in a faceless environment such as this one but when it actually comes down to trying to affect real change they got better things to do.

The best way to show one's unhappiness is to be in the public's eye and protesting is extremely effective because it is very public and it is very westcoast a-typical.

But will it do anything? It'll tell Franky the trust fund baby that there are people in this city that care enough about this damn team to yell about it in public.

"It's just hockey".



DM me if yer interested. Not going to promise anything but I know this much, complaining about it here isn't going to affect any change.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I just hope we don't go the route of tossing jerseys on the ice.


And protesting Benning wouldn't be the dumbest reason Canucks fans protested something. That would be the "Free Bertuzzi" rally.

 

[PM]

I just wanted our so called "Drafting GM" to actually stockpile draft picks for, you know, drafting. Is that really so much to ask?

Instead we've shipped out 3rds for Dorsett and Pedan, Dorsett wasn't needed and Pedan is a waiver eligible third-pairing AHL dman on the worst AHL team in the league. Also gave away another 3rd in the Kesler deal for no reason.

Traded 2nd rounders for two of the softest waiver eligible forwards ever in Vey and Baertschi. Threw in two more 2nd rounders on the Sutter and Gudbranson trades. Four 2nd rounders shipped away! More than Gillis and Nonis combined I believe.

Traded away two recent former first rounders in Shinkaruk and McCann.

Then there are all the small pick transactions that on their own aren't big but when you add them up it's a problem. 5th for Prust, 7th with Garrison, 6th for Etem, 4th/5th for Larsen. I'm sure I'm forgetting another one too.

Keep your ****ing draft picks!

 

[Toxic0n]

Best way to protest is don't go to games and don't buy any of their stuff.

I haven't bought any Canuck merchandise for years. Ditto with not going to games. Best way to protest.

I go to the game since the tickets are usually free for me and I will admit I spend some money on their beer I did stop accepting free tickets towards the end of last season, it was just terrible hockey to watch. Probably have another 10 or so games this season before I can't stomach it anymore.

I've been holding off on buying a new jersey for the past 2 years and will not buy one until Benning is fired.

 

[GPNuck]

Its such a joke that Stecher didn't start the season in Vancouver.. He's our best D-man... Benning is stupid

 

[earl grey]

Well, you know when you go for broke there are sacrifices to be made, but it isn't the be all to end all...but its all for naught, and that is the questionable action done by the group. I think BMac had it right today.

 

[GPNuck]

Well, you know when you go for broke there are sacrifices to be made, but it isn't the be all to end all...but its all for naught, and that is the questionable action done by the group. I think BMac had it right today.

What did BMac say today?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Its such a joke that Stecher didn't start the season in Vancouver.. He's our best D-man... Benning is stupid

Stecher's situation and treatment this year (combined with Virtanen languishing in press box limbo) puts a lot of holes into the "give the kids a chance" theory purported by some and adds credence to the "Benning literally only put rookies on the roster because he literally had no other choice due to kneecapping roster depth" theory.

 

[PG Canuck]

Stecher's situation and treatment this year (combined with Virtanen languishing in press box limbo) puts a lot of holes into the "give the kids a chance" theory purported by some and adds credence to the "Benning literally only put rookies on the roster because he literally had no other choice due to kneecapping roster depth" theory.

Horvat, Hutton, Stecher, Markstrom and maybe a few others I'm forgetting, literally forced their way onto the team regardless if Willie wanted them or not - they played good enough to not put on the roster.

Remember Willie not wanting Bo on he team and then being shocked at how good he was?

Only Virtanen and McCann were wrongfully forced onto the roster, and there is one reason for that...

 

[RandV]

Its such a joke that Stecher didn't start the season in Vancouver.. He's our best D-man... Benning is stupid

This is one thing I have no problem with. There's no harm in starting a rookie on a two-way contract in the minors, and our blueline was pretty crowded to start the season. I mean it happened for the wrong reasons (bad Sbisa contract & unnecessary Larsen trade), but there's nothing wrong with starting a rookie who had a good training camp in the minors and making him the first callup.

That's one way you get good depth.

 

[Verviticus]

Wow. You sure have come around

holy **** is that sting101? did someone steal his name

 

[Oliewud]

would love to have tkachuk right now. Thanks JB

 

[Tim McCracken]

Horvat, Hutton, Stecher, Markstrom and maybe a few others I'm forgetting, literally forced their way onto the team regardless if Willie wanted them or not - they played good enough to not put on the roster.

Remember Willie not wanting Bo on he team and then being shocked at how good he was?

Only Virtanen and McCann were wrongfully forced onto the roster, and there is one reason for that...

Only to envision him as a checking center at a time when the Sedins are near the end and there's no other center in the system capable of providing an offensive push. Great coaching right there. Nice man but you can't fix stupid.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Horvat, Hutton, Stecher, Markstrom and maybe a few others I'm forgetting, literally forced their way onto the team regardless if Willie wanted them or not - they played good enough to not put on the roster.

Remember Willie not wanting Bo on he team and then being shocked at how good he was?

Only Virtanen and McCann were wrongfully forced onto the roster, and there is one reason for that...

In a nutshell, you have described why the farm has gone to hell. They have envisioned all the above on the farm filling in now and then. therefore the farm stocking stopped with these players. The players forced their hand and ended up in Vancouver to management's surprise. This season they add a couple guys to the farm, seem content, and stop the restock. Those guys again end up in Vancouver anyways. 3 this year in Stecher, Megna, and Chaput.

Combine this with trading away other top prospects and getting nothing back for the farm in the deal and then not bothering to find replacements for them. the overall effect has left the farm a barren wasteland and they do nothing to repair the damage except ship out another mistake in development in Virtanen.