Post-Game Talk: Canucks lose 2-0; Best player? Empty net

[Tiranis]

So the players are of a sufficient speed, of suffient talent, of a sufficient make up, but don't do things with urgency... Did they ever have this urgency? If they did, how did they lose it? How is it corrected?

If urgency is missing, at it is a team wide phenomenon (as no one is scoring), what does that mean for incoming players?

I would say they lost it right around when our record started to turn. Actually, a few games earlier than that as they relied on some good bounces to finish out that December streak.

The thing with urgency is... it's also very likely to be missing as a result of injuries because your head is not fully in the game.

(As for incoming players, Santorelli and Richardson are both fine. Kassian has been great too.)

 

[The Protein Shake*]

If I had to say who my "untouchables" are at this point.. I'd say Kesler, Bieksa, Shinkaruk, Tanev and Kassian.

 

[Orca Smash]

Torts commented that his team was "slow", in addition to wanting points in the blue. What do you attribute this to?

Also, are greasy goals a product of an adjustment by the players, that yet have to make it, or doing something systemically to provide more opportunity in that regard? If it's player related, then one wonders why Torts is expecting his top players to play against type? If they don't normally get those greasy goals, is it fair to expect them to start getting them now?

This is where i agree with gillis in a failure to adapt by players although not that they have to jam pucks in which gillis mentioned friday.

I dont necessarily see a team that has to jam away to get goals, i see a team and players that is slow at making decisions with the puck in an increasingly fast paced puck possession game. We are slow getting shots off, we are slow deciding what to do with our passes.

I believe thats what he means when he called them slow. Detroit was constantly closing in our players tonight before they even decided what to do with the puck.

 

[Tiranis]

This is where i agree with gillis in a failure to adapt by players although not that they have to jam pucks in which gillis mentioned friday.

Well, to jam pucks in you need to get there in the first place and the Canucks are not committed enough to do so. There's a lot of ways that manifest itself in — they're generally very slow getting to the crease, their sticks are easily checked, they get boxed out on a regular basis, etc.

 

[arsmaster*]

So the players are of a sufficient speed, of suffient talent, of a sufficient make up, but don't do things with urgency... Did they ever have this urgency? If they did, how did they lose it? How is it corrected?

If urgency is missing, at it is a team wide phenomenon (as no one is scoring), what does that mean for incoming players?

Can't play faster or can, but are not.

I think they're worn the **** out.

The 3 best forwards and Dan Hamhuis look lethargic.

 

[Tiranis]

I think they're worn the **** out.

The 3 best forwards and Dan Hamhuis look lethargic.

The travel schedule and the number of back-to-backs certainly doesn't help.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I thought they looked slow because they didn't know where to go and what to do.

I'd rather tortorella say that it looks like they have a lot to work on

I got that from the complexion of the team comment.

 

[thepuckmonster]

The travel schedule and the number of back-to-backs certainly doesn't help.

Not to mention going from playing basement Colorado and terrible Wild teams 5 times a year is a lot easier physically than it is to play Anaheim and LA 4 times. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but the reason the Ducks are mowing over competition is because the Pacific has been pretty tough for awhile and they're more accustomed to it. I think a big factor is conditioning, it's something Torts has preached since day one. It's definitely something a lot of players will have to adjust in the off season to compete in the new division.

 

[cc]

I got that from the complexion of the team comment.

To me, that can easily be interpreted as a comment about not having the right personnel

 

[Bleach Clean]

I would say they lost it right around when our record started to turn. Actually, a few games earlier than that as they relied on some good bounces to finish out that December streak.

The thing with urgency is... it's also very likely to be missing as a result of injuries because your head is not fully in the game.

(As for incoming players, Santorelli and Richardson are both fine. Kassian has been great too.)

Question is: How did they lose it? You cite injuries. Injuries to existing players that are still playing? I can see a case made for Henrik, anyone else? Could playing big minutes early have gassed them? Edit: arsmaster points this out.

If I am understanding you correctly, the urgency was there for players in DEC? Then they lost it. If they had it at one point, does that speak to something inherently wrong with the players themselves, or something that has changed around them?

For their careers, I think the Sedins, Burrows and Kesler have been "urgent" players. Why the tailspin for these guys?

You may be onto something, because I don't see this team playing as fast DET, CHI or whomever else. Just trying to pin down why.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

The travel schedule and the number of back-to-backs certainly doesn't help.

The Sedins and Kesler are also playing well above their career averages in TOI. Especially since none of them are particularly young, it's taking a toll on them.

 

[thepuckmonster]

To me, that can easily be interpreted as a comment about not having the right personnel

He said the team has to change, or they have to change the way they play.

 

[The Protein Shake*]

The Sedins and Kesler are also playing well above their career averages in TOI. Especially since none of them are particularly young, it's taking a toll on them.

True, But Kesler doesn't look bad, whereas Daniel looks like he forgot what the word "hockey" even means.

 

[cc]

The travel schedule and the number of back-to-backs certainly doesn't help.

But then you'd have to look at how he's managed ice time for his players

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I think Tortorella's comments about this team being 'slow' are telling. And not because they're slow skaters or slow at transitioning (although I do think they're slow at transitioning) but because everything in the offensive zone happens at half the pace it should. Watch the Red Wings, Blackhawks, etc. cycle the puck — it's not a skill difference, it's that they do it with some urgency. It's even worse on the PP.

And that's something that comes back to the players rather than the coaches. Tortorella can't get out there for them and move their feet.

The teams lack of speed through the neutral zone has everything to do with coaching. Better break out=more team speed through the neutral zone. Torts better fix the break out to fix the team speed.

 

[Nucks N Canes]

True, But Kesler doesn't look bad, whereas Daniel looks like he forgot what the word "hockey" even means.

Think he is just low on confidence. And his wrist looks even weaker than usual.

 

[arsmaster*]

Well, to jam pucks in you need to get there in the first place and the Canucks are not committed enough to do so. There's a lot of ways that manifest itself in — they're generally very slow getting to the crease, their sticks are easily checked, they get boxed out on a regular basis, etc.

Jonathan Toews as much as I hate him personifies what Torts wants IMO. I can't close my eyes and think of a Toews goal that isn't him being first to the blue paint with the puck or getting the puck in the corner and with no delay taking the puck hard to the net.

IMO I don't think the leaders of this team (Twins) do that. They never have. They prefer to drive part way and make the cross crease.

It's a mentality that I think manifests itself whenever the Canucks play tough teams. Easily boxed out. Shots from the outside. Too many passes. Ugly cycle.

I think I'm just upset right now. I don't know what this team is.

 

[Orca Smash]

The teams lack of speed through the neutral zone has everything to do with coaching. Better break out=more team speed through the neutral zone. Torts better fix the break out to fix the team speed.

People complained about the breakouts under av, you heard it every week.

Its easy to try to fix, but if the players are not skating or are hurt, the D is taking to long to make decisions with the puck against hard forchecking teams, and players taking to long to make second passes out while the opposing team aggressively takes away passing lanes in the neutral zone, the breakout cant magically be fixed with a diagram.

Burrows for instance looks as slow as i have ever seen him, and that i am attributing to the broken jaw, slow skating, slow deciding what to do with the puck and henriks also clearly hurt, when that happens to key players things like the breakout become incredibly difficult to fix.

 

[StIllmatic]

He said the team has to change, or they have to change the way they play.

Yea he said the team has to change, but he didn't specify a problem with the personal. He could easily have meant the system they play or how they play. I personally think its both and I think that's what Torts meant as well.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

This is a team with 2 forwards - Henrik and Kesler.

They're done. Daniel, Burrows and Booth look like they won't combine for more than a handful of goals over the rest of the season and Henrik scored goals like a 3rd liner at the best of times. Throw in the depth players that are below average and this team will fall into the bottom 3 in goals scored this season when all is said and done IMO.

I hate to say it, but it's over. With Connor McDavid headlining next years draft, it's time for the most aggressive re-build Gillis can manage.

 

[VanCanucks53]

But then you'd have to look at how he's managed ice time for his players

Agreed. He's been horrible at managing ice time. I know he likes to play his top guys a ton but that isn't going to work in the tough Western conference and the travel we have compared to the East.

 

[StIllmatic]

Jonathan Toews as much as I hate him personifies what Torts wants IMO. I can't close my eyes and think of a Toews goal that isn't him being first to the blue paint with the puck or getting the puck in the corner and with no delay taking the puck hard to the net.

IMO I don't think the leaders of this team (Twins) do that. They never have. They prefer to drive part way and make the cross crease.

It's a mentality that I think manifests itself whenever the Canucks play tough teams. Easily boxed out. Shots from the outside. Too many passes. Ugly cycle.

I think I'm just upset right now. I don't know what this team is.

I agree, we see this way too often. Even when we dominate possession, we often don't have our way around the blue paint like LA and San Jose seem to have with us. It's frustrating, this team just lacks the urgency. We tried swapping coaches and so far it seems like it hasn't made a difference. I'm starting to think its the players that need to change, either to be traded or change their styles/mentalities. Something needs to happen.


While I love Torterella for the most part, my biggest issue with him is his management of icetimes. We need the fourth line to play more, we need to distribute the ice time better. I personally have faith in a Sestito-Dalpe-X fourth line to play roughly 8-10 minutes a game without costing us. The Sedins and Kesler are playing too much, the same could be said for Hamhuis although that is largely due to injuries.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Painful. We need to let this season go and get a good draft pick.

This. Anyone believing there is a trade that can fix this team this year is living in bizarro land.

 

[cc]

He said the team has to change, or they have to change the way they play.

With the schedule they have and the travel, I think he needs to work on how he distributes and manages ice time and they need to practice system fundamentals more. I don't really understand the comment about the team needing to change because I don't think it's all that realistic. If we were to focus on the second bit of his sentence, it almost sounds like changing his system

 

[Bleach Clean]

Jonathan Toews as much as I hate him personifies what Torts wants IMO. I can't close my eyes and think of a Toews goal that isn't him being first to the blue paint with the puck or getting the puck in the corner and with no delay taking the puck hard to the net.

IMO I don't think the leaders of this team (Twins) do that. They never have. They prefer to drive part way and make the cross crease.

It's a mentality that I think manifests itself whenever the Canucks play tough teams. Easily boxed out. Shots from the outside. Too many passes. Ugly cycle.

I think I'm just upset right now. I don't know what this team is.

Lack of urgency (making quicker plays) and driving the net are the two different things. I know Torts wants every one of his players to drive the net. That's fine, but the twins have produced gaudy totals in the past without doing it. So the difference now is the lack of urgency. How did they lose that?

Torts doesn't need the twins to crash the net in order for this team to win. It would be nice, but they have never been net crashers. He just needs them back to where they have been in the past.

Burrows and Kesler crash the net, yet Burrows is goalless and Kesler was/is hit or miss. That's a mode. The urgency is something the entire team is missing. Execution and speed.