Post-Game Talk: Canucks lose 2-0; Best player? Empty net

[PRNuck]

Norris calibre, IMO.

Not Overly Remarkable, Rather Inconsistent & Subpar.

I really really like this.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The original comment you were addressing was mine. No where did I make the comment people thought it was the sole reason.

Edit: Base topic, excuse for lack scoring was a coaching problem.

I say:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Was it? I thought he was part of the problem, still do, and the team needed a change, and they did, but I don't think he was blamed as the sole cause. That's a reach on your part.

You say:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
1) absolutely was the popular opinion.
2) not a reach at all.

What is point 1 by you addressing? Certainly looks like it is referring to my phrase of "I don't think he was blamed as the sole cause".

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't post on other teams' boards as a rule, but saw this no where here (likely I missed it, if so then I apologize for redundancy).

But on the off chance that you all have not seen this, thought some of you would get a kick out of it. I literally can not stop watching it.

 

[cc]

It's not fitting the personnel very well. It's the sort of style that would suit a big team that is able to dominate the boards and do so with a man free to score goals. It seems to take all 3 forwards on the walls to make it work for the canucks - that means they cycle and cycle and cycle until they lose the puck or they throw it to a D for a predictable long range shot.

Teams are also find it really easy to defend against us off the rush, how many times have we been able to attack fast enough to catch the other teams defense napping. It feels like we are seeing a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio of rushes against to rushes for.

I don't like the constant chip and charge, but I always hated AVs penchant to play a very passive style... like never dictating the pace of the game...
I like aspects of torts system but I agree.. the same forechecking system can't be applied to all lines or players. For the bottom lines it would be fine... Even the second line... But not the Sedins... They are east/west players pure and simple

 

[me2]

Just watched the Torts post-game and are people really making a big deal about the Booth comments? Wow.

AV's system wasn't fitting them either last season.

I agree and it was time for AV to move on, but is the current system worse? Gillis has talked about building a grindier team, we are going to need quite a few changes to make this team fit this style it is playing.

Gillis wants to be a bigger grindier team but he's also hedged his bets (Shinkaruk counter to Horvat, Subban as a counter to Cederholm). I wonder how Torts will affect the Canucks prospects and drafting if we go all in building a Torts team ie what happens to a player like Shinkaruk? I don't want see a team drafted/built for Torts because our drafting is bad enough as it without being given permission to reach for those types of players in the draft and by the time they are ready Torts could well be gone and the new coach will probably just find the player group unsuited and lacking.

 

[TheWanderer]

I say:



You say:




What is point 1 by you addressing? Certainly looks like it is referring to my phrase of "I don't think he was blamed as the sole cause".

I say! *bah nah bahnah* Take me out!

 

[Tiranis]

I agree and it was time for AV to move on, but is the current system worse? Gillis has talked about building a grindier team, we are going to need quite a few changes to make this team fit this style it is playing.

Gillis wants to be a bigger grindier team but he's also hedged his bets (Shinkaruk counter to Horvat, Subban as a counter to Cederholm. I wonder how Torts will effect the Canucks prospects and drafting if we go all in building a Torts team ie what happens to a player like Shinkaruk? I don't want see a team drafted/built for Torts because our drafting is bad enough as it without being given permission to reach for those types of players in the draft and by the time they are ready Torts could well be gone and the new coach will probably just find the player group unsuited and lacking.

I don't think he said he wants a 'grindier' team. He wants a team that's willing to score those greasy goals. I see nothing wrong with that.

I also don't think that chip and charge has anything to do with Tortorella but more with the personnel or perhaps their mental hang-ups post Boston-loss. We saw the same issue with AV last season where most zone entries were chip and charge, as opposed to carrying the puck in.

Also, when Kassian is playing at his best, he regularly carries the puck into the zone and Tortorella only rewards him with more ice-time when he's successful at that.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Few people had any issues with this system through the first half of the season. Every system is terrible when the team is losing.

 

[Orca Smash]

of course it sucks! nobody is doubting that! we're down to AHL callups - hell, even our fourth-liner-acting-as-a-second-liner, brad richardson, was out. the captain's missed games and appears to still be injured, the 'heart' of the team, kevin bieksa, isn't on the roadtrip, and a character guy like weise just got traded for a bloke nobody knows. it was always going to suck tonight. it could have sucked less - the powerplay needs to score, simple as that - but this is not the game you use to call out management with passive-aggressive moping about the make-up of the team. it's at its zenith.

but no, the team sucks, tortorella has decreed it, so now i suppose we just cop his gospel and feel sorry about ourselves until lawrence gilman somehow finds $6 million in cap space under the couch, so we can get a real scorer like thomas vanek. because the only dignifying asset for a coach is how naturally skilled his players are, rather than his motivational abilities or power to impart knowledge and technical skill onto an existing core of professionals.

Not saying its accurate and nobody knows for certain except gillis and torts, but botch for instance seems to believe that gillis is well aware of all of this and is on board.

"But, remember, this is the coach coming off 15 days where he had untold hours to spend talking with his general manager about what to do next. (and gillis said friday hes been talking to torts every day)

What he said Monday, was not a coach going off half-cocked. It was a coach who is on message from the higher ups.

It started with the pregame show where he said"

You can read the rest here.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/0...-torts-returns-and-its-in-a-big-blustery-way/

 

[TheWanderer]

Few people had any issues with this system through the first half of the season. Every system is terrible when the team is losing.

#FireBabcock

 

[iFan]

I agree and it was time for AV to move on, but is the current system worse? Gillis has talked about building a grindier team, we are going to need quite a few changes to make this team fit this style it is playing.

Gillis wants to be a bigger grindier team but he's also hedged his bets (Shinkaruk counter to Horvat, Subban as a counter to Cederholm). I wonder how Torts will effect the Canucks prospects and drafting if we go all in building a Torts team ie what happens to a player like Shinkaruk? I don't want see a team drafted/built for Torts because our drafting is bad enough as it without being given permission to reach for those types of players in the draft and by the time they are ready Torts could well be gone and the new coach will probably just find the player group unsuited and lacking.

And that's a big problem with the personal on this core, it's not a team built for that team Gillis has said he want sort he team that Torts likes, any team built around the Twins isn't that style. For this team to turn it around needs to be built back to its 09-11 playing style or make trades to make it a bigger, gritty defensive team. You can't just be a softer offensive team and have your GM say ok now we're a big bad Bruins type team and be it so, you need the right personal on the team to make that happen and that's a big issue with this core, you have a coach and GM wanting them to play one way and a core built to play another and this is the result of that.

 

[cc]

Sure, I didn't say they never take responsibility, just that it's rare. Like I said, he took responsibility pre-game and he has taken responsibility many times previously. I would say that clearly shows that he is willing to take "some responsibility". Just because he didn't say it to the media after this particular game doesn't mean he's given up or is not willing to share his load of the burden. It's just strikes me as an odd criticism on your part because it's the one area where he is light years ahead of AV and many other coaches. Be glad you're not an Oiler fan, have you ever seen an Eakins press conference!? Good God, he's been roasting players all year and not taking any of the blame for their disastrous season.

Whether he is a bad hockey coach or not is a slightly different discussion. He certainly has his weaknesses, it's not like I'm some fawning fan-boy here. I would agree that his ice-time management has been off and the PP is an unmitigated disaster. It's his first stint in the West, but he'll need to adjust.

I thought the team deserved to be read the riot act after the game. Tonight was one of their poorer games of the year. The Booth comment is also being blown out of proportion in my mind, he was calling out the Twins and Kesler more than insulting Booth.

To me, it didn't look like the effort wasn't there... It looked like the problem was how disjointed all the lines looked so simple plays were the only things they had in the toolbox lacking anything resembling creativity.

In the defensive zone, all the players started collapsing down low so deep that there weren't players available for any outlet passes and ended up running around a lot. I guess a lot of them were going for the shot block or something

In the offensive zone, when cycling down low, players were not getting into scoring areas and just joining the boardplay/cycle. For the most part, Detroit was just content to keep them all on the perimeter

I don't think a calling out is what they needed...

 

[thepuckmonster]

Few people had any issues with this system through the first half of the season. Every system is terrible when the team is losing.

Well said.

 

[me2]

Few people had any issues with this system through the first half of the season. Every system is terrible when the team is losing.

I liked that they were winning, and winning but outworking opponents but they were scoring a lot of greasy goals and that helped mask scoring problems but when you aren't playing well you get stomped. This past batch of games they haven't scored greasy goals, but you can't rely on just greasy goals because can't expect random bounces and bad rebounds/goaltending to always end in your favour.

You expect older teams to fade away, some fast and some slow. This team faded away from SCF/PT,1st round exists over the last few years, but didn't fade away this year, it is more like it hit a wall. It went from playing like solid playoff team (6/7 west) to top 5 lottery pick terrible in one week at the start of January. Maybe half the team on the ice, in addition to those is in the injury ward, is playing injured which would explain it, I don't know but it is frustrating.

 

[Tiranis]

To me, it didn't look like the effort wasn't there... It looked like the problem was how disjointed all the lines looked so simple plays were the only things they had in the toolbox lacking anything resembling creativity.

In the defensive zone, all the players started collapsing down low so deep that there weren't players available for any outlet passes and ended up running around a lot. I guess a lot of them were going for the shot block or something

In the offensive zone, when cycling down low, players were not getting into scoring areas and just joining the boardplay/cycle. For the most part, Detroit was just content to keep them all on the perimeter

I don't think a calling out is what they needed...

I think Tortorella's comments about this team being 'slow' are telling. And not because they're slow skaters or slow at transitioning (although I do think they're slow at transitioning) but because everything in the offensive zone happens at half the pace it should. Watch the Red Wings, Blackhawks, etc. cycle the puck — it's not a skill difference, it's that they do it with some urgency. It's even worse on the PP.

And that's something that comes back to the players rather than the coaches. Tortorella can't get out there for them and move their feet.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't think he said he wants a 'grindier' team. He wants a team that's willing to score those greasy goals. I see nothing wrong with that.

I also don't think that chip and charge has anything to do with Tortorella but more with the personnel or perhaps their mental hang-ups post Boston-loss. We saw the same issue with AV last season where most zone entries were chip and charge, as opposed to carrying the puck in.

Also, when Kassian is playing at his best, he regularly carries the puck into the zone and Tortorella only rewards him with more ice-time when he's successful at that.

Torts commented that his team was "slow", in addition to wanting points in the blue. What do you attribute this to?

Also, are greasy goals a product of an adjustment by the players, that yet have to make it, or doing something systemically to provide more opportunity in that regard? If it's player related, then one wonders why Torts is expecting his top players to play against type? If they don't normally get those greasy goals, is it fair to expect them to start getting them now?

 

[Tiranis]

Torts commented that his team was "slow", in addition to wanting points in the blue. What do you attribute this to?

Also, are greasy goals a product of an adjustment by the players, that yet have to make it, or doing something systemically to provide more opportunity in that regard? If it's player related, then one wonders why Torts is expecting his top players to play against type? If they don't normally get those greasy goals, is it fair to expect them to start getting them now?

See my post above yours.

To expand with a specific example: Kassian, when at his best, has that pace to his game that very few other guys seem to have right now. Santorelli is another guy and it showed because he was leading the team in ES scoring. It's not a surprise that Santorelli earned so much praise and ice-time from Tortorella. That's how he wants his players to play.

 

[Orca Smash]

Wow even jim hughson is down on the team, says he has not liked watching the games the past two years, and citing leafs and habs exciting goals as something he prefers to watch.

 

[Bgav]

I don't post on other teams' boards as a rule, but saw this no where here (likely I missed it, if so then I apologize for redundancy).

But on the off chance that you all have not seen this, thought some of you would get a kick out of it. I literally can not stop watching it.

pretty good haha

 

[Virtanen18]

Can't win when we don't score. Can't win when we do score.

Lol @ when Canucks fans were pondering whether Vigneault would last to Christmas or not.

 

[arttk]

I think Tortorella's comments about this team being 'slow' are telling. And not because they're slow skaters or slow at transitioning (although I do think they're slow at transitioning) but because everything in the offensive zone happens at half the pace it should. Watch the Red Wings, Blackhawks, etc. cycle the puck — it's not a skill difference, it's that they do it with some urgency. It's even worse on the PP.

And that's something that comes back to the players rather than the coaches. Tortorella can't get out there for them and move their feet.

It's really amazing how differently we are playing now compared to Nov. Not sure what the hell happened but it seemed like after the heart breaker vs Pitts, the team has completely fallen apart. Injuries don't help but then it seemed like afterwards, the confidence has been completely sucked out of everyone except for Lack and Kassian.

 

[Nucks N Canes]

Let Burrows rest the whole Olympic break, trade one of Kesler, Edler or Bieksa, get rid of Hansen or Higgins while their value is high. See what you have gotten from the trades and re-plan the future in offseason. Best time to trade Kesler is probably this now to optimize what we can get back from a time with Stanley Cup aspirations. Still think St. Louis or Detroit would give up a king's ransom.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think Tortorella's comments about this team being 'slow' are telling. And not because they're slow skaters or slow at transitioning (although I do think they're slow at transitioning) but because everything in the offensive zone happens at half the pace it should. Watch the Red Wings, Blackhawks, etc. cycle the puck — it's not a skill difference, it's that they do it with some urgency. It's even worse on the PP.

And that's something that comes back to the players rather than the coaches. Tortorella can't get out there for them and move their feet.

So the players are of a sufficient speed, of suffient talent, of a sufficient make up, but don't do things with urgency... Did they ever have this urgency? If they did, how did they lose it? How is it corrected?

If urgency is missing, at it is a team wide phenomenon (as no one is scoring), what does that mean for incoming players?

Can't play faster or can, but are not.

 

[cc]

I think Tortorella's comments about this team being 'slow' are telling. And not because they're slow skaters or slow at transitioning (although I do think they're slow at transitioning) but because everything in the offensive zone happens at half the pace it should. Watch the Red Wings, Blackhawks, etc. cycle the puck — it's not a skill difference, it's that they do it with some urgency. It's even worse on the PP.

And that's something that comes back to the players rather than the coaches. Tortorella can't get out there for them and move their feet.

I thought they looked slow because they didn't know where to go and what to do.

I'd rather tortorella say that it looks like they have a lot to work on

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Painful. We need to let this season go and get a good draft pick.