Post-Game Talk: Canucks lose 2-0; Best player? Empty net

[VanCanucks53]

I feel like the twins can't cycle like they used to, or just aren't. They used to cycle forever until they found a scoring opportunity, even if that meant cycling for 2 minutes. Now they pass it a few times along the boards and take a weak shot that either goes wide, hits the logo or gets blocked. Not sure if I'm imagining it, or it's because they want to shoot more or something else.

I don't even remember the last time the Sedins had a Sedinry type of shift. I miss the cycle

 

[Wilch]

Too much clutch and grab kills the Sedins game.

 

[btdvox]

I'm with Torts on this one. The team has looked anemic since the start. We chalked it up to let them figure the system out but that went out fast. Simple truth is, this is Todts telling the world that Gillis is being conservative and needs to rebuild aggressively. The teams time has come and gone. The only solace to take is many of our players have value as long as their willing to be moved aka their NTCs and that the Sedins will be here to mentor and leader our future players. I want to see kassian, Shinkaruk, Horvat, Gaunce and more to come prosper in the NHL. Trade Burrows, Kesler, Booth(if you can), one Dman from The top 4 and think of how much young depth we could have. Don't miss the boat Gillis because it's coming fast. The coach has already stated it, now it's your ass on the line.

Because truth is...until we can find a productive, fast and younger 1st line that produces and until the Sedins are 2nd liners, we aint coming close to winning any cup.

 

[Wilch]

Pretty sure Torts tells Gillis what he thinks in private, not through the media.

 

[MikeK]

Too much clutch and grab kills the Sedins game.

Agreed... but from both sides, and speed is the reason. The Sedin's have always given and received their share of the grab but this season has been an eyesore. Both Sedin's have looked painfully slow all season. I can't remember if I have ever seen them lagging behind and grabbing onto their opponents as much as I have this season. You are never going to get the benefit of the doubt when all you do every shift is clutch and grab. We could very well have seen the last of the dominance the Sedin's use to have down low and the beginning of the downside of their careers. I hope this is just one of those seasons that the whole team is having but the Sedin's have looked old and slow and that should be a concern for all of us.

 

[vanuck]

Need to get him on the 1st unit and get Daniel off. Kesler is our best one timer from left hash marks. Kassian can make plays when he's not screen and causing hell.

Don't know why they keep insisting on having Hamhuis or 4 lefties on the top unit. They have a hard enough time getting good shots off as it is and not having the right sort of handedness isn't helping.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Our PP is awful and we've been asking for scoring help since the Finals...our PP has been one of our strengths for a long stretch of time and now look at it..utter disgrace..

Gillis can't use the lockout last year as an excuse, this year he has no excuses..

You want insane? I said that in the middle of the 2010-11 season that our biggest problem would be our inability to score on the great chances we created. When the Canucks were routinely scoring 3-5 goals a night. I believe the term I used was "killer instinct". Now that they can't even get those many chances to score now our offense just seems pathetic.

Last year I think the only excuse was the lack of centre depth we had when Kes went down for the whole year pretty much. This was a problem Gillis himself created. No excuses for him, this year or last.

 

[sticknrink]

Painful. We need to let this season go and get a good draft pick.

And yet this team is still in the middle of the west and still has a playoff spot.

This team has always relied on its defense heavily for secondary scoring and moving the puck. Tanev and Bieksa out hurt this team more than ever because they seemed to be the guys who can do a first-pass out the zone to transition into offense quickly. IMO the forwards aren't doing anything considerably different nor do they look that much worse. But it's harder to score when the other team is already set up and ready by the time you've gotten into the zone.

The transition game has been dead since Ehrhoff left. And this is what I think Torts is alluding to. This team is so slow changing zones.

For this, the blame falls soley on the GM.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Painful. We need to let this season go and get a good draft pick.

Makes sense if this draft class was actually good. If we *have* to tank I say next year.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The difference is coaching. The Sedins were getting more offensive zone starts under AV. Which I still think Torts should implement.

Oh and the PP was better.

So their totals were artificially inflated?

 

[LiveeviL]

No it's not. We just don't have good scorers on this team. I've been saying this for a while now and people wouldn't listen.

Yes you called it, nailed it, since like before some Art Rosses ago

So their totals were artificially inflated?

Yes again! It was all about the no unique points, you told us and was right all along.

 

[crazyforhockey]

Keep in mind we were out chanceing most teams outshooting them as well.
A very poor PP all season.... plus a huge amount of injuries have now propelled us to being a borderline playoff team.

 

[luongo321]

The offense regressing is nothing new. They fell off a cliff over the 2nd half of '11-12, were poor last season and continue to slide into the bottom 5 in the NHL. This isn't an issue that is going to be figured out - it's a personnel issue through and through. The talent level just isn't where it needs to be and the players aren't getting any younger. You might even say the offense will never be better with this core group than it is right now. Scary thought.

What is the point of moving 2 core players for futures if it means you come back next year even less talented than the group right now?

I think you're looking for answers that simply are not there. This is a top heavy team that is seeing it's top players fade with age. And Gillis hasn't drafted well enough to offset that by bringing in skilled forwards to help lessen the blow.

It was too early to give up on this group after last season, but their continued slide down the standings makes it apparent it will get worse before it gets better in Vancouver IMO. You can go at this aggressively by re-building with youth, or try to hang around and hope to find some gems in free agency. I just don't like the odds of building a club with players that go to the highest bidder...

On top of that, FA's are less likely to take a discount to play on a team that is falling apart. Only legit contenders get players to take discounts. In a way, we are lucky that some of our players have the contracts that they have, but some of them are underperforming on those contracts right now. However, if we were try to sign some of them now, they'd probably want more money.

 

[MrShift4]

getting close to joining the let's tank crowd

 

[y2kcanucks]

On top of that, FA's are less likely to take a discount to play on a team that is falling apart. Only legit contenders get players to take discounts. In a way, we are lucky that some of our players have the contracts that they have, but some of them are underperforming on those contracts right now. However, if we were try to sign some of them now, they'd probably want more money.

I would rather target some RFA's via trade.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Who in the core group hasn't been able to keep their head above water for 100+ games? Daniel had 40 in 47 last year, Henrik 45 in 48. Burrows was still 24/47 last year...

So about the bolded reasons above, these things all conspired to have the core behave as they have this year. What you are saying is that these reasons will persist, and the core will continue to perform commensurate to those factors. The resulting performance will continue. But what if those players aren't banged up, not coming off injury, are on the high end of their inconsistency? What about when they are supplemented by talent? Confidence is up? Etc... Still a rebuild?

If multiple factors have to come together for people to give up on this group, which it seems you have, then I would say that turning some of those factors will induce a different take. Like what does this team look like with a bit of confidence, Burrows completely over his injury and a young player brought in by a Dman trade?

The entire group has struggled to keep their head above water - hence the basically even goal differential over a 100+ game sample size.

I think Henrik's iron ma streak and the play of the goaltneders has also masked the issues. How would the team have fared last season had Henrik missed a dozen games and they only receieved league average goaltending? Probably give up more goals than they score, in a terrible division.

IMO it's over for this group. I don't think they're going to make the playoffs.

 

[PRNuck]

So did Henrik still look broken?

 

[Tiranis]

Lack of urgency (making quicker plays) and driving the net are the two different things. I know Torts wants every one of his players to drive the net. That's fine, but the twins have produced gaudy totals in the past without doing it. So the difference now is the lack of urgency. How did they lose that?

Torts doesn't need the twins to crash the net in order for this team to win. It would be nice, but they have never been net crashers. He just needs them back to where they have been in the past.

Burrows and Kesler crash the net, yet Burrows is goalless and Kesler was/is hit or miss. That's a mode. The urgency is something the entire team is missing. Execution and speed.

Here's where I disagree. The twins used to regularly crash the net and score goals from within 5 feet on their tap in plays. Now that teams collapse to the net, they can't get there anymore. Hell, neither can Burrows.

 

[Proto]

Here's where I disagree. The twins used to regularly crash the net and score goals from within 5 feet on their tap in plays. Now that teams collapse to the net, they can't get there anymore. Hell, neither can Burrows.

Part of that though is that you need to be able to move the puck laterally and get pucks on net first to expand the defense, and Burrows looks useless in the offensive zone right now. He's never ready for the puck, he's pushed around easily, he can't get his shots on net (or when he does they're right along the ice).

I know he's been injured, but Burrows looks worse than Hansen out there.

 

[luongo321]

So did Henrik still look broken?

At one point, he was only playing the pp in the 3rd and wasn't taking faceoffs.

 

[Tiranis]

Part of that though is that you need to be able to move the puck laterally and get pucks on net first to expand the defense, and Burrows looks useless in the offensive zone right now. He's never ready for the puck, he's pushed around easily, he can't get his shots on net (or when he does they're right along the ice).

I know he's been injured, but Burrows looks worse than Hansen out there.

I don't disagree with that. I would still also go back to the lack of urgency and cycling too slow. If you're that slow then even if the other team makes mistakes, they have ample time to recover.

This team needs more players that can push the pace like Mike Santorelli did.

 

[Soth]

we're slumping. It happens to all teams. Same thing has been going on with LA and Chicago.

I worry a bit, because a lot of the players look like they are playing with an 'I give up' attitude. They need to stay positive and motivated to pull themselves out of this hole.

The team is better than this.

 

[Cogburn]

we're slumping. It happens to all teams. Same thing has been going on with LA and Chicago.

I worry a bit, because a lot of the players look like they are playing with an 'I give up' attitude. They need to stay positive and motivated to pull themselves out of this hole.

The team is better than this.

Or get pissed. I work better with a chip on my shoulder when trying to bump a slump. Sales isn't a proxy to hockey, but if I get angry, I can do anything.

I know Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa are all of that mind frame...but I wonder, are the Sedins too maybe?

 

[PRNuck]

At one point, he was only playing the pp in the 3rd and wasn't taking faceoffs.

Oh fantastic. It just keeps getting better doesn't it? Actually can we hijack that campaign for avatars?

"Canucks 2014 - It Gets Better"

 

[luongo321]

we're slumping. It happens to all teams. Same thing has been going on with LA and Chicago.

I worry a bit, because a lot of the players look like they are playing with an 'I give up' attitude. They need to stay positive and motivated to pull themselves out of this hole.

The team is better than this.

They aren't slumping. This team has had trouble scoring for a long time. Without Santorelli for the rest of the season, an injured Henrik and a no-show Burrows/Dan Sedin, this team is done. I have a little hope that Burr will get it going once he finally scores, but that entire first line just falls apart if everyone is not going at the same time.