Rumor: Canucks and Devils talking Zacha for Dickinson trade

[UrbanImpact]

And that would obviously never fly because that's a comically bad deal for New Jersey.

I don't get why people here try to play GM and say "I don't want the guy, but I'd pay XXX for him". What you'd want to pay for him is irrelevant, if he's traded to your team, he's going to go for fair value.

because this is not real world and this is a message board. non of our opionions actually have any weight.

I'm only giving mine as to what I'd be okay in trading for Zacha and what he would bring along with salary.

Don;t want Zacha for fair value, for a discount sure ill take him.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I said considerable piece, like a 3rd or similar level prospect. I did not say the add is significant. I still don't see why the Devils would make that move though. Zacha is a far better player.

I assume because they would walk away from Zacha in the summer but still need someone to fill his defensive role.

 

[Eggtimer]

I assume because they would walk away from Zacha in the summer but still need someone to fill his defensive role.

Maybe but there has to be better options out there than this…

 

[Boondock]

You should quit while you’re behind rather than continually show your mathematical skills are not even at a grade 5 level.

Zacha has 166 points in 363 games in his career to date. 166/363 = 0.45730028 points per game

0.45730028 points per game x 82 games in a season = 37.4986226 points per season

now in math you always round up to the 2nd decimal so that’s 37.50. In hockey there’s no such thing as 0.5 points so round up and that’s 38 points a season. Even if you round down that’s 37. No idea how you’re getting 23 points, but however you are, you’re doing math wrong

Show me his 82 game season. Stats projected over an 82 game season are great. Show me his 1 - 82 game season. Well in order to be valued as a 37.49 point player you need to have at least one season where you played the games and hit the numbers. I agree the 23 point comment was ignorant, but missing games is part of the valuation process. If you could count on Zacha for 82 games that's one thing. His 6 seasons without playing 82 indicate he has durability issues and as such has averaged 28 actual points per season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Show me his 82 game season. Stats projected over an 82 game season are great. Show me his 1 - 82 game season. Well in order to be valued as a 37.49 point player you need to have at least one season where you played the games and hit the numbers. I agree the 23 point comment was ignorant, but missing games is part of the valuation process. If you could count on Zacha for 82 games that's one thing. His 6 seasons without playing 82 indicate he has durability issues and as such has averaged 28 actual points per season.

Who helps you win more, a guy who gets 28 points in 62 games and then is replaced by a standard depth player for the 20 games when he's out or a guy that gets 28 points per 82 games?

The first obviously helps you more.

 

[DFF]

What is the qualifier for Zacha?

Nobody in their right mind would want to pay 2.6M for Dickinson. He produced like a minimum salary/PTO guy

 

[kanucks25]

If I'm the Devils there's no way I accept this 1 for 1 but if I'm the Canucks I rather buy him out than pay much to get rid of him.

We can also just let Zacha walk after this year if we like.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Maybe but there has to be better options out there than this…

I think Cap Space is king in todays game and there wont be that many suitors for Zacha at 3ish mil per season without the Devils taking back salary themselves.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Show me his 82 game season. Stats projected over an 82 game season are great. Show me his 1 - 82 game season. Well in order to be valued as a 37.49 point player you need to have at least one season where you played the games and hit the numbers. I agree the 23 point comment was ignorant, but missing games is part of the valuation process. If you could count on Zacha for 82 games that's one thing. His 6 seasons without playing 82 indicate he has durability issues and as such has averaged 28 actual points per season.

It's pretty dishonest thinking, when last two seasons have been shortened and Zacha's progression has been slow. With the same logic Necas, for instance, is a 40 point player.

 

[Boondock]

Who helps you win more, a guy who gets 28 points in 62 games and then is replaced by a standard depth player for the 20 games when he's out or a guy that gets 28 points per 82 games?

The first obviously helps you more.

Helps you more offensively in those 62 games. A player that fits into a system and knows his role for 82 games can have just as much if not more impact than a player that scores slightly more but causes issues with team chemistry, line-up juggling impacting other lines/players.

I would make that trade 1 for 1 as a Canuck fan which means it the value favors the Canucks Zacha>Dickinson. But a player that has missed time in 6 straight seasons having their points totals presented as paced over 82 is just as poor of an argument as Zacha is a 23 point player.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

What is the qualifier for Zacha?

Nobody in their right mind would want to pay 2.6M for Dickinson. He produced like a minimum salary/PTO guy

$3M.

I think Cap Space is king in todays game and there wont be that many suitors for Zacha at 3ish mil per season without the Devils taking back salary themselves.

Zacha has his flaws, but I'm pretty sure there are teams that are ready to take a versatile, 0.49–0.70 ppg player with his $3M contract.

 

[BCNate]

I assume because they would walk away from Zacha in the summer but still need someone to fill his defensive role.

There are far better options than Dickinson out there for far cheaper though. He has been a huge dispappointment.

Just my thoughts though, Devils may see something I don't.

 

[UrbanImpact]

$3M.

Zacha has his flaws, but I'm pretty sure there are teams that are ready to take a versatile, 0.49–0.70 ppg player with his $3M contract.

Not in a salary cap world my friend. Heck this report is saying even New Jersey don't want to take him on for 3mil per season and they are rebuilding with lots of cap space i presume.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I can imagine that devils would get better offers for zacha… as a Canucks fan, yes! But I am sure we’d be adding a pick or prospect (from our bare cupboard).

 

[nonfactor]

Zacha will be a great add for whoever gets him.

Zacha is a scrub…..23 points? and he’s making over 2 million per yr? What’s he going to ask for in his next contract? Good God JR, please put the hash pipe down and step away from the phone. Give Dickinson away for future considerations for all I care. All he cost is money when they signed him.

 

[UrbanImpact]

There are far better options than Dickinson out there for far cheaper though. He has been a huge dispappointment.

Just my thoughts though, Devils may see something I don't.

I would honestly take a 7th rounder straight up for Dickinson and get rid of his cap space than attach a 4th with Dickinson and trade for Zacha.

In a perfect world, neither Dickinson nor Zacha would be on my team and instead i have 2.5- 3mil to spend elsewhere in making my team better.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Show me his 82 game season. Stats projected over an 82 game season are great. Show me his 1 - 82 game season. Well in order to be valued as a 37.49 point player you need to have at least one season where you played the games and hit the numbers. I agree the 23 point comment was ignorant, but missing games is part of the valuation process. If you could count on Zacha for 82 games that's one thing. His 6 seasons without playing 82 indicate he has durability issues and as such has averaged 28 actual points per season.

the poster said “averages 23 points a season.” a season is 82 games last time I checked. He didn’t say since zacha avgs 50-60 games he averages 23 points over his shortened seasons. When doing calculations into averages per season or per year you take the full 82 games unless stated otherwise.

I agree that not being able to ever play a 82 game season hurts his value. That is completely irrelevant to my post or the post I quoted however.

since Zacha broke into the league he’s missed an average of 13.8 games per season. Even if you adjust his season to his avg of 68 games per year that’s 31 points a season btw

 

[rangersfansince08]

I would honestly take a 7th rounder straight up for Dickinson and get rid of his cap space than attach a 4th with Dickinson and trade for Zacha.

In a perfect world, neither Dickinson nor Zacha would be on my team and instead i have 2.5- 3mil to spend elsewhere in making my team better.

But your GM seems to be interested in Zacha.

 

[Cogburn]

Zacha has better point production, by almost any metric, as everyone has pointed out, Corsi and Fenwick numbers, with a near split in O/D starts. Dickinson, with fewer games, has more takeaways (as well as a 3:2 ratio, with Zacha having lower then a 1:1), hits, blocks, and does so with 2/3s defensive zone starts. Zacha is 46% on the dot, with Dickinson being 44%, but Zacha has taken more in 100 more games.

What does this mean?

Well nothing. Zacha has a monopoly on all the sexy stats, but gets cleaned when it comes to the "blue collar" stats. Even Fenwick and Corsi are looking awful for Dickinson, probably because he doesn't score, which means his line mates do so less then they usually would too. Corsi Against is very close, but Corsi for is almost double for Zacha, as an example. Ditto Fenwick.

I mean I obviously prefer Zacha's skill set, and as I said earlier, I am definitely willing to add in a 1 for 1 situation. That being said, Zacha's underlying numbers back up what a lot of Devils fans are saying about his defensive game and play away from the puck, so I am honestly conflicted as to how much I would add.

 

[CanuckCity]

This is clearly a cap move. Zacha is going to want to get paid like a ~.5ppg player and devils aren't interested in that. Think Zacha also said he's happy to take his QO and go to UFA?

They sell low on Zacha but get Dickinson at 2.6 for 2 more years and apparently need defensive wingers.

Canucks I imagine are happy to let zacha walk and recoup the 2.6mil in cap from dickinson.

Maybe we toss in a late pick but if Devils like Dickinson then it evens out a bit when you factor in $$.

Obviously if a contender steps up and offers a 2nd or something they probably take that instead.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I can imagine that devils would get better offers for zacha… as a Canucks fan, yes! But I am sure we’d be adding a pick or prospect (from our bare cupboard).

Canuck nation hates Tanner Pearson at 3.2 mil per season even though he has recently had a 21 goal season for the Canucks.

Zacha would be eaten alive by fans here if and when he makes 3mil next year.

We dont need another Tanner Pearson unless they take Dickinenson and his contract

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Not in a salary cap world my friend. Heck this report is saying even New Jersey don't want to take him on for 3mil per season and they are rebuilding with lots of cap space i presume.

Well, my friend, I'm not sure if I should trust your assessments. I mean you claimed that Zacha is a 23 point player and Boeser is just 3 year-ish older than Holtz.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm really surprised if the possible trade is one for one. If there is a pick coming to the Devils, it's more likely a 2nd than a 5th.

 

[Boondock]

It's pretty dishonest thinking, when last two seasons have been shortened and Zacha's progression has been slow. With the same logic Necas, for instance, is a 40 point player.

If the only seasons with missed games were his last 2 shortened seasons, then sure, but they are not. He had 4 full 82 game seasons prior to that where he also missed games.

As for the Necas comparable - Necas has 3 seasons where he has improved his point totals each season (this season still unknown). In his 3 seasons in the league Necas has played in 94% of the Canes games, in Zacha's 6 seasons of full time play he has played in 86% of the Devils games, meaning he missed nearly 15% of the games over his career. If Necas' production stays where it is for the next 3 seasons, then yes he will be seen as a 40-45 point player. Necas hasn't had the opportunity to play a full 82 game slate. Zacha has. Did this really need to be explained?

 

[Eggtimer]

Zacha is also 24 years old…. It’s not like he is closing in on 30 and is starting to decline. Also have to take i to account he has played on a totally shit roster his entire career. I don’t see him being at his peak already . Put him on a good team amd give him a reason to play and I think he can produce at decent rate. At least worth the 3 mil per. Dickinson is a replacement level player making 2.6 mil.No thanks on trading for him . You should be able to find that type of player for far less than that.
God I hope this isn’t just a Zacha for Dickinson trade.
Hoping like hell it’s Zacha and Dickinson as pieces in a trade where Boeser is coming to NJ.
And no, I’m not saying Zacha is the main piece coming from NJ.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Well, my friend, I'm not sure if I should trust your assessments. I mean you claimed that Zacha is a 23 point player and Boeser is just 3 year-ish older than Holtz.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'm really surprised if the possible trade is one for one. If there is a pick coming to the Devils, it's more likely a 2nd than a 5th.

a 2nd ? lol

Why doesnt the Canucks just wait till the Devils walk away from him in the summer and go after him without losing a high asset like a 2nd.