Friedman: Canes to buyout Kotkaniemi?

[DaPhazz]

mehehe

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Teams have done it. It's not impossible.

Dumbass teams like Toronto, maybe. No one is saying it’s impossible but it’s very highly unlikely Carolina would ever do this.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

So I am interested as a pens fan and have thought of trades with him.

First off I am asking for 0 retention

Does Carolina want/need a Defensemen that is LD age 29 LD 4.5 million 5 years left.

He had a rough year in Pittsburgh he was great on the PK but at even strength looked not good in our system. Had a great year beside Marino in 2022 2023.

I'd do a 1 for 1 swap. Or a 1 for 1 swap with maybe a 4th with Graves attached.

Next up.

Smith for KK
Smith was at 40 points didn't want to be in Pittsburgh 2 way player and would fit with Carolinas System
1 for 1. Smith has 1 year at 5 million. I figure a rental over a buyout is better.

Eller 2.2 million for KK.

Honestly I don't even know if I'd want to give away Eller I figure a center for center. I'd trade Eller as KK would slide in as a bottom 6 C and it would give Carolina a solid 4C.

Lastly

I'd just take KK with a 3rd and we just take the contract and make it work.

 

[WreckingCrew]

So I am interested as a pens fan and have thought of trades with him.

First off I am asking for 0 retention

Does Carolina want/need a Defensemen that is LD age 29 LD 4.5 million 5 years left.

He had a rough year in Pittsburgh he was great on the PK but at even strength looked not good in our system. Had a great year beside Marino in 2022 2023.

I'd do a 1 for 1 swap. Or a 1 for 1 swap with maybe a 4th with Graves attached.

Next up.

Smith for KK
Smith was at 40 points didn't want to be in Pittsburgh 2 way player and would fit with Carolinas System
1 for 1. Smith has 1 year at 5 million. I figure a rental over a buyout is better.

Eller 2.2 million for KK.

Honestly I don't even know if I'd want to give away Eller I figure a center for center. I'd trade Eller as KK would slide in as a bottom 6 C and it would give Carolina a solid 4C.

Lastly

I'd just take KK with a 3rd and we just take the contract and make it work.

Pass on all of the above...this is all just more of what we already have, most is 0 or negative value to us. KK is good enough with a cheap enough buyout that the best you could do is ask if we'll trade him for future considerations (you're not getting picks or anything attached to him)...and that's ONLY IF we NEED the cap space. Otherwise he's still a decent player, if we didn't have all of Staal/Drury/Kuzy basically fighting for 3/4C he'd be fine. This narrative has been drastically overblown

 

[Unsustainable]

So I am interested as a pens fan and have thought of trades with him.

First off I am asking for 0 retention

Does Carolina want/need a Defensemen that is LD age 29 LD 4.5 million 5 years left.

He had a rough year in Pittsburgh he was great on the PK but at even strength looked not good in our system. Had a great year beside Marino in 2022 2023.

I'd do a 1 for 1 swap. Or a 1 for 1 swap with maybe a 4th with Graves attached.

Next up.

Smith for KK
Smith was at 40 points didn't want to be in Pittsburgh 2 way player and would fit with Carolinas System
1 for 1. Smith has 1 year at 5 million. I figure a rental over a buyout is better.

Eller 2.2 million for KK.

Honestly I don't even know if I'd want to give away Eller I figure a center for center. I'd trade Eller as KK would slide in as a bottom 6 C and it would give Carolina a solid 4C.

Lastly

I'd just take KK with a 3rd and we just take the contract and make it work.

I'd do Smith or Eller for KK.

 

[NotNotALeafsFan]

Who is K2 & why is there no name in the title or OP?

 

[Unsustainable]

Who is K2 & why is there no name in the title or OP?

No clue how KK or Kotkaniemi became K2

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I'd do Smith or Eller for KK.

Yea I can see not going for Graves as why go for the long term deal.

Both are players worth there contract and on one year deals.

I figure KK is either going to make a come back and contribute enough or Penguins will have to buy him out. Which if we buy him out well atleast we won't be competing but then everyone can laugh at the buyout.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Solid self ownage from Carolina's moronic front office

Enjoy Kotkaniemi for as long as possible and for as much money as possible

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Dumbass teams like Toronto, maybe. No one is saying it’s impossible but it’s very highly unlikely Carolina would ever do this.

Probably.

Pretty awkward conversation for the GM to have: "hey, can you waste $10M because I was an idiot? Thanks."

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pass on all of the above...this is all just more of what we already have, most is 0 or negative value to us. KK is good enough with a cheap enough buyout that the best you could do is ask if we'll trade him for future considerations (you're not getting picks or anything attached to him)...and that's ONLY IF we NEED the cap space. Otherwise he's still a decent player, if we didn't have all of Staal/Drury/Kuzy basically fighting for 3/4C he'd be fine. This narrative has been drastically overblown

0 teams would trade for Kotkaniemi's deal without giving up their own bad contract.

Maybe the Canes wouldn't do it because the buyout is fairly cheap, but that doesn't mean other teams would just oblige the Canes and take that awful contract from them.

So I am interested as a pens fan and have thought of trades with him.

First off I am asking for 0 retention

Does Carolina want/need a Defensemen that is LD age 29 LD 4.5 million 5 years left.

He had a rough year in Pittsburgh he was great on the PK but at even strength looked not good in our system. Had a great year beside Marino in 2022 2023.

I'd do a 1 for 1 swap. Or a 1 for 1 swap with maybe a 4th with Graves attached.

Next up.

Smith for KK
Smith was at 40 points didn't want to be in Pittsburgh 2 way player and would fit with Carolinas System
1 for 1. Smith has 1 year at 5 million. I figure a rental over a buyout is better.

Eller 2.2 million for KK.

Honestly I don't even know if I'd want to give away Eller I figure a center for center. I'd trade Eller as KK would slide in as a bottom 6 C and it would give Carolina a solid 4C.

Lastly

I'd just take KK with a 3rd and we just take the contract and make it work.

I wouldn't do either Smith or Eller for Kotkaniemi. I'm not trading for Kotkaniemi's deal without trading Graves' deal.

I'd be willing to add on top of Graves, the interesting idea (at least IMO) is Graves and Ponomarev for Kotkaniemi. The Canes are already familiar with Ponomarev and it allows them to run with him and Drury as their bottom-6 centers long-term. From the Penguins side, they don't really need Ponomarev anymore if they have Kotkaniemi long-term.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Finland‘s biggest star at the Skoda‘s straight up for JK? Maybe Dubas sees something in him?

 

[WreckingCrew]

0 teams would trade for Kotkaniemi's deal without giving up their own bad contract.

Maybe the Canes wouldn't do it because the buyout is fairly cheap, but that doesn't mean other teams would just oblige the Canes and take that awful contract from them.



I wouldn't do either Smith or Eller for Kotkaniemi. I'm not trading for Kotkaniemi's deal without trading Graves' deal.

I'd be willing to add on top of Graves, the interesting idea (at least IMO) is Graves and Ponomarev for Kotkaniemi. The Canes are already familiar with Ponomarev and it allows them to run with him and Drury as their bottom-6 centers long-term. From the Penguins side, they don't really need Ponomarev anymore if they have Kotkaniemi long-term.

Is Graves coming at 50% retention? Because it'd be WAY CHEAPER to buyout KK than trade him for Graves, who's only $300k cheaper with 1 less year in his contract heading into his 30s compared to a 23 yo Kotkaniemi...GTFO with that BS


Again, Canes will take the cheap buyout before taking a negative value asset back, ESPECIALLY if we're doing it to save cap space (which Graves nor Smith fit that next season which is where we might get into a cap crunch. Burns + Orlov clear us $13M the year after)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is Graves coming at 50% retention? Because it'd be WAY CHEAPER to buyout KK than trade him for Graves, who's only $300k cheaper with 1 less year in his contract heading into his 30s compared to a 23 yo Kotkaniemi...GTFO with that BS Again, Canes will take the cheap buyout before taking a negative value asset back, ESPECIALLY if we're doing it to save cap space (which Graves nor Smith fit that)

Okay then go buy him out then. Because no teams are going to trade for Kotkaniemi's deal without sending out their own bad deal.

He's signed long-term at basically $5 million and is coming off a season where he had 27 points. His age or his draft position don't matter at all, teams aren't trading assets for that. His age is the only reason that the Canes aren't completely stuck with his contract without major additions.

Want to argue the Canes wouldn't want to take a bad deal for Kotkaniemi due to the buyout being so tame? You can absolutely argue that, but that doesn't mean other teams would be willing to trade for him without sending their own bad deal back.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Okay then go buy him out then. Because no teams are going to trade for Kotkaniemi's deal without sending out their own bad deal.

He's signed long-term at basically $5 million and is coming off a season where he had 27 points. His age or his draft position don't matter at all, teams aren't trading assets for that. His age is the only reason that the Canes aren't completely stuck with his contract without major additions.

Want to argue the Canes wouldn't want to take a bad deal for Kotkaniemi due to the buyout being so tame? You can absolutely argue that, but that doesn't mean other teams would be willing to trade for him without sending their own bad deal back.

Not so sure I agree.

I'd take a flyer on Kotkaniemi at his full cap hit depending on what the sweetener is. He has not lived up to the current contract he signed and is a negative value asset currently so I would not take him for free. However, he is only 23 years old and would be a huge steal if he ever lives up to his draft pedigree. He doesn't turn 26 until July 6, 2026. The Blues could have two years to evaluate him, increase his trade value if he plays well, decide to keep him for the contract duration if he pans out, or buy him out at a relatively low cost. Again, depending on the sweetener, a Kotkaniemi trade is a move that a savvy GM/front office rebuilding on the fly should be making, IMO.

Buyout cost
June 2024: 10M
June 2025: 8.4M
June 2026: 6.8M
June 2027: 10.4M (after turning 26)

Canes fans posting in this thread are correct to point out it makes more sense for them to just buy him out than to attach premium assets to dump his contract. Guess we shall find out in the next 30 days or so which path Carolina takes.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Okay then go buy him out then. Because no teams are going to trade for Kotkaniemi's deal without sending out their own bad deal.

He's signed long-term at basically $5 million and is coming off a season where he had 27 points. His age or his draft position don't matter at all, teams aren't trading assets for that. His age is the only reason that the Canes aren't completely stuck with his contract without major additions.

That's literally what this whole thread is about and exactly what I'm saying. But everyone wants to come in and say "take our shitty expensive-buyout contracts that make your cap situation worse and cost more money than the buyout"...it's like talking to a f***ing brick wall

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Probably.

Pretty awkward conversation for the GM to have: "hey, can you waste $10M because I was an idiot? Thanks."

Their process has generally worked out. Kotkaniemi is just one of a number of creative and often controversial moves over the years: Skinner for picks outside of the 1st round, using significant cap space on the Marleau dump, trading Nedeljkovic for what the market had to offer, letting Hamilton walk with no internal replacement. You can’t expect perfection.

Making a sub-optimal decision to avoid admitting mistake is the worst thing they could do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not so sure I agree.

I'd take a flyer on Kotkaniemi at his full cap hit depending on what the sweetener is. He has not lived up to the current contract he signed and is a negative value asset currently so I would not take him for free. However, he is only 23 years old and would be a huge steal if he ever lives up to his draft pedigree. He doesn't turn 26 until July 6, 2026. The Blues could have two years to evaluate him, increase his trade value if he plays well, decide to keep him for the contract duration if he pans out, or buy him out at a relatively low cost. Again, depending on the sweetener, a Kotkaniemi trade is a move that a savvy GM/front office rebuilding on the fly should be making, IMO.

Buyout cost
June 2024: 10M
June 2025: 8.4M
June 2026: 6.8M
June 2027: 10.4M (after turning 26)

Canes fans posting in this thread are correct to point out it makes more sense for them to just buy him out than to attach premium assets to dump his contract. Guess we shall find out in the next 30 days or so which path Carolina takes.

I think this is fundamentally the problem. If you take out draft position with him, there's nothing in his performance in the NHL that suggests higher upside than an okay middle-6 center.

Now I agree with you that Kotkaniemi is negative value and Carolina would have to add to get out of his deal, I was just referring to moving Kotkaniemi without the Canes having to pay. If they're paying a team to take him on, I think that trade becomes much easier.

I think their options are buying him out, paying for a team to trade for him or taking back another bad deal for him. I was just more looking at the first and last rather than the middle one.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think this is fundamentally the problem. If you take out draft position with him, there's nothing in his performance in the NHL that suggests higher upside than an okay middle-6 center.

Now I agree with you that Kotkaniemi is negative value and Carolina would have to add to get out of his deal, I was just referring to moving Kotkaniemi without the Canes having to pay. If they're paying a team to take him on, I think that trade becomes much easier.

I think their options are buying him out, paying for a team to trade for him or taking back another bad deal for him. I was just more looking at the first and last rather than the middle one.

I mean, there is the fact he hit 40+ points last season and had a solid playoffs which is exactly what he is paid to do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, there is the fact he hit 40+ points last season and had a solid playoffs which is exactly what he is paid to do.

And yeah, I think that's realistically his upside. An okay middle-6 center that likely isn't good enough in a 2C role but is very good in a 3C role.

I just think that his draft position doesn't mean anything at this point, and his realistic upside from his performance in the NHL is just that.

 

[Gurglesons]

And yeah, I think that's realistically his upside. An okay middle-6 center that likely isn't good enough in a 2C role but is very good in a 3C role.

I just think that his draft position doesn't mean anything at this point, and his realistic upside from his performance in the NHL is just that.

Okay middle-6 centers are getting 5 million. Ryan Strome, Dylan Strome, JT Compher, etc.

I understand these guys have career years where they've hit more than 40 points, but that is the realm of where they score.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No clue how KK or Kotkaniemi became K2

Same thought here. Only thing that makes sense is Kx2. Two K's? lol.

A better nick name is Bambi. Drafted as a long term prospect that may never develop into what some thought he could be. I don't think he has enough of a nasty side to him. Too complacent and has a hard time comprehending NHL systems. His skating is certainly not good enough to keep up with the Canes fast tempo. Someone like Staal is smart enough to fit in but the young KK is struggling.

I was and still am a Kotkaniemi fan. My gut tells me he has a very short prime (age 26-30).

 

[Not The One]

As a Hab fan who was arguing that KK was extremely overrated for over a year before he left, this is extremely satisfying.

Of I'm counting correctly with the buyout KK will have cost them 25.7 million $ plus first and third round picks for three years of mediocre play. That is exactly the same cost per year as the original Aho offer sheet which their owner was so mad about.

Couldn't have happened to a better bunch of jerks.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Whatever happens, I PRAY that his next contract is also with $20 signing bonus.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Who is K2 & why is there no name in the title or OP?

Stealth as said player himself.