Friedman: Canes to buyout Kotkaniemi?

[JohnHodgson]

Also it's pure comedy that Canes are asking for the moon for a winger coming off a 53 point year that wants out and doesn't have a contract.

Like what are we even doing here? Necas is a good player and has had ONE really good season but look at the trade returns for top six wingers with the similar pedigrees - they aren't great.

Canes fans acting like Necas is some god and Hronek is a bum, despite the fact that Hronek plays a way more pivotal position and is a more scarce asset in the NHL.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

And what about you ?

Im not the one claiming i understand how owners will spend their money so….

 

[That Habs Fan]

I didn't watch much of him this season, does he still fall down every shift?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Most Canes fans here aren’t even commenting on Hronek’s play. There’s a question of how he fits in the team’s cap structure moving forward that makes a different type of return at the very least competitive comparatively. It’s not a slam dunk fit. If it was, he wouldn’t be in the conversation as Vancouver would just re-sign him itself.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I didn't watch much of him this season, does he still fall down every shift?

No. He isn’t bambi anymore. Not a strong skater by any stretch.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Im not the one claiming i understand how owners will spend their money so….

Translation: "I have no idea..."

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Translation: "I have no idea..."

I have an idea, 0 owners met.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Canes fans are impossible to reason with.

I said 1st + Kotkaniemi + Morrow would be a good trade last year for JTM to give them a one-two punch down the middle with Aho and Miller.

Most responses from Canes fans looked something like this: "WE WOULD NEVER DO THIS IN A MILLION YEARS. ONLY FOR FREE. WOULD NOT GIVE UP ANYTHING TO TAKE THAT ANCHOR CONTRACT. DON'T WAN'T TO TOUCH THAT CONTRACT WITH A TEN FOOT POLE".

Some Canucks fans are just as impossible.

Canes fans have said time and time again, that our owner has insisted that he's not signing guys in their late 20s, early 30s to long term, high dollar deals. He avoids it like the plague.

We don't all agree with that approach, but we accept that until he does, most of us don't see it happening and thus won't entertain it in a trade proposal. That was the real issue with any JTM trade that has been proposed some Vancouver fans ignore this reality. We kept saying that any trade before JTM was re-signed meant to us that it was a rental deal, as we didn't have any confidence the Canes management would re-sign him based on how they operate. Once he signed his long term deal, we didn't think the ownership would take on a contract like that for a player his age.

Maybe that will change with Guentzel or Skjei or Pesce this year, or with Slavin next year, but he's been consistent on that front since 2017. Until he changes his MO, a trade for someone like JTM isn't realistic, yet many Vancouver fans disregard that.

Clearly value wise, JTM is a way better player than KK (who I wasn't a fan of acquiring or signing), a late 1st and Morrow, it was more about the contract and cap structure given how our owner operates.

 

[FMichael]

Love seeing this all backfire on Carolina.

 

[CanadienShark]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794017027679560083

Austin in Langley appears to be smoking a massive blunt in that photo.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794017027679560083

Some of us in the Pens board say we would take a flyer on him for future considerations or trading Smith for a 1 year rental which I'd take a year rental if I was Carolina.

 

[krutovsdonut]

When the team needs a shutdown guy and the player you are suggesting is the anthesis of that, then yea.

hronek is the antithesis of a shutdown guy?

wow.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

lol. quite the hot take. did you see him play a single game?

maybe hockey comprehension isn't your thing.

0 chance you watch hronek and think he is a shutdown defender. You’re just being obtuse

 

[crowi]

Never get together with a MTL fan, they'll never let you go. Holy f***, this is something else.

 

[krutovsdonut]

0 chance you watch hronek and think he is a shutdown defender. You’re just being obtuse

disagree with the premise of your comment.

obtuse is you claiming "hronek got handled in his own end" and is "the antithesis of a shut down defender" and then pretending someone who disagrees with those takes must think hronek is a shut down defender.

as a counterpoint to your uninformed nonsense opinion i watched every game hronek played this year. not once in any situation did i think "oh shit hronek is on the ice". his offence disappeared in the second half of the seasons, but the guy is a competent 2-way defender in any situation who can transition the puck.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They really showed those habs with this offersheet!

 

[krutovsdonut]

0 chance you watch hronek and think he is a shutdown defender. You’re just being obtuse

speaking of obtuse, here is you last year claiming kotkaniemi is a better centre than miller. i have to tell you i am just sitting here laughing. can't wait to hear the rest of your carefully considered views.

KK is the better center. Miller is the much better scorer.

 

[Vivaldi]

Some Canucks fans are just as impossible.

Canes fans have said time and time again, that our owner has insisted that he's not signing guys in their late 20s, early 30s to long term, high dollar deals. He avoids it like the plague.

We don't all agree with that approach, but we accept that until he does, most of us don't see it happening and thus won't entertain it in a trade proposal. That was the real issue with any JTM trade that has been proposed some Vancouver fans ignore this reality. We kept saying that any trade before JTM was re-signed meant to us that it was a rental deal, as we didn't have any confidence the Canes management would re-sign him based on how they operate. Once he signed his long term deal, we didn't think the ownership would take on a contract like that for a player his age.

Maybe that will change with Guentzel or Skjei or Pesce this year, or with Slavin next year, but he's been consistent on that front since 2017. Until he changes his MO, a trade for someone like JTM isn't realistic, yet many Vancouver fans disregard that.

Clearly value wise, JTM is a way better player than KK (who I wasn't a fan of acquiring or signing), a late 1st and Morrow, it was more about the contract and cap structure given how our owner operates.

Is that an actual serious policy? Its so stupid I assumed it was like his "never draft defensemen in the first round because offensive players go boom make fan clap" troll statement.

You don't sign everyone under the sun to those contracts but its pretty much impossible to win a cup without having several high end players in their 30s or entering their 30s signed to those deals. You basically have to have Crosby and Malkin and a ton of luck and those teams still had Gonchar and later Kessel signed to big money through their 30s despite being the outlier. There's a lot players put together after 10-12 years of NHL hockey and playoff failures beaten into them that lets them win in the playoffs. Look at Barkov finally getting it after a decade of being a fairly underwhelming playoff performer. Or Trocheck. Even the Capitals won when Ovechkin and Backstrom were highly paid players in their 30s along with Orpik, Niskanen, Oshie, Holtby even Kuznetsov being signed to a contract going to his mid 30s. Vegas relied on Stone, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Martinez signed to those no no contracts on top of an extremely risky trade for Eichel who had even more concern surrounding him at the time than most star players entering FA at 28/29. If the Canes follow this absurd model they're letting Guentzel walk along with much of their defense and basically bringing in stopgaps or green players who need years in the league to get that level of experience. As good as Nikishkin looks to be even if he comes over this year its probably a few years before he can handle playoff hockey at a high level through multiple rounds, and the rest of their prospects look like NHLers but hardly the ones to get them over the hump as core players in the near future. Its almost the perfect approach to prevent yourself from ever going too deep in the playoffs.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

speaking of obtuse, here is you last year claiming kotkaniemi is a better centre than miller. i have to tell you i am just sitting here laughing. can't wait to hear the rest of your carefully considered views.

Yet that is still true


as a counterpoint to your uninformed nonsense opinion i watched every game Kotkaniemi played this year. not once in any situation did i think "oh shit Miller is a better center on the ice". his offense disappeared in the second half of the seasons, but the guy is a competent 2-way defender in any situation who can transition the puck.

See how good personal opinions are the best way to support an argument?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is that an actual serious policy? Its so stupid I assumed it was like his "never draft defensemen in the first round because offensive players go boom make fan clap" troll statement.

It's been how he's operating to date. He's said he hasn't wanted to pay for someone's 2nd big contract. He's also said he's not going to overpay for non-core players so I think he'll make exceptions for certain players (like Slavin, or if Aho's first contact would have been 7 or 8 years instead of 5).

It's how he's operated to date, Skinner, Faulk, Hamilton, Trocheck, etc..., but maybe he is realizing it's tough to go all the way without doing that. Rumor is they are trying to sign Guentzel so we'll see, but I remain skeptical until he actually does so, since he hasn't done it in 6 years so far.

 

[Vivaldi]

It's been how he's operating to date. He's said he hasn't wanted to pay for someone's 2nd big contract. He's also said he's not going to overpay for non-core players so I think he'll make exceptions for certain players (like Slavin, or if Aho's first contact would have been 7 or 8 years instead of 5).

It's how he's operated to date, Skinner, Faulk, Hamilton, Trocheck, etc..., but maybe he is realizing it's tough to go all the way without doing that. Rumor is they are trying to sign Guentzel so we'll see, but I remain skeptical until he actually does so, since he hasn't done it in 6 years so far.

Damn, rough. Their playoff purgatory makes a lot more sense now. They still have time to win it all if they change it up

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Damn, rough. Their playoff purgatory makes a lot more sense now. They still have time to win it all if they change it up

Playoff purgatory has little to do with that policy though

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yet that is still true


as a counterpoint to your uninformed nonsense opinion i watched every game Kotkaniemi played this year. not once in any situation did i think "oh shit Miller is a better center on the ice". his offense disappeared in the second half of the seasons, but the guy is a competent 2-way defender in any situation who can transition the puck.

See how good personal opinions are the best way to support an argument?

the trouble with that analogy is that nobody would expect you to think of jt miller when watching kotkaniemi disappoint you constantly while playing for the canes this season because there is no prospect of miller being subbed onto the ice for kotkaniemi idue to the fact the canes are too cheap and indecisive to successfully pursue their bottom feeding strategy to fruition and blew their chance to get him below market when the canucks were in disarray.

whereas if hronek was truly "the antithesis of a shutdown defenceman" and being "handled" this season as you claim, you'd expect me as a canuck fan to have had concerns watching him on the ice many times this past season. even a dumb civilian canucks fan like me would have noticed the fact that tochett was using the antithesis of a shutdown defenceman in all situations against top line match ups , and there would be threads about it where canuck fans discussed it. and oilers fans would have endlessly discussed how lucky hronek was with his +33 in the main board.

and, to be clear, i did not claim that personal opinions are the best way to support an argument so, once again, you're arguing a strawman. i would say personal opinions are not a great way to support an argument but i also say why waste good material? if your debating opponent is making incredibly bad arguments, they're more than sufficient. it doesn't take much of an appeal to authority to mock the shit out of takes that have no air of reality whatever.

so let's focus on your incredibly bad takes. i wish to celebrate the fact you have elected to double down on claiming kotkaniemi is a better centre than jt miller.

good for you. outstanding. well done. i salute your fortitude and courage in giving us the entertainment value of you ignoring the first rule of holes. but don't stop there. you seem like a guy who likes the last word so please keep make your case some more! plus you should put it in your sig line that you think kotkaniemi is a better centre than jt miller so people know what kind of a hockey expert you are, and can give you the respect you deserve.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

the trouble with that analogy is that nobody would expect you to think of jt miller when watching kotkaniemi disappoint you constantly while playing for the canes this season because there is no prospect of miller being subbed onto the ice for kotkaniemi idue to the fact the canes are too cheap and indecisive to successfully pursue their bottom feeding strategy to fruition and blew their chance to get him below market when the canucks were in disarray.

whereas if hronek was truly "the antithesis of a shutdown defenceman" and being "handled" this season as you claim, you'd expect me as a canuck fan to have had concerns watching him on the ice many times this past season. even a dumb civilian canucks fan like me would have noticed the fact that tochett was using the antithesis of a shutdown defenceman in all situations against top line match ups , and there would be threads about it where canuck fans discussed it. and oilers fans would have endlessly discussed how lucky hronek was with his +33 in the main board.

and, to be clear, i did not claim that personal opinions are the best way to support an argument so, once again, you're arguing a strawman. i would say personal opinions are not a great way to support an argument but i also say why waste good material? if your debating opponent is making incredibly bad arguments, they're more than sufficient. it doesn't take much of an appeal to authority to mock the shit out of takes that have no air of reality whatever.

so let's focus on your incredibly bad takes. i wish to celebrate the fact you have elected to double down on claiming kotkaniemi is a better centre than jt miller.

good for you. outstanding. well done. i salute your fortitude and courage in giving us the entertainment value of you ignoring the first rule of holes. but don't stop there. you seem like a guy who likes the last word so please keep make your case some more! plus you should put it in your sig line that you think kotkaniemi is a better centre than jt miller so people know what kind of a hockey expert you are, and can give you the respect you deserve.

The trouble is that your opinion is just an eye test that is nearly meaningless. The best thing is you continue to push. Lol. Its the best.

 

[bleedgreen]

Is that an actual serious policy? Its so stupid I assumed it was like his "never draft defensemen in the first round because offensive players go boom make fan clap" troll statement.

You don't sign everyone under the sun to those contracts but its pretty much impossible to win a cup without having several high end players in their 30s or entering their 30s signed to those deals. You basically have to have Crosby and Malkin and a ton of luck and those teams still had Gonchar and later Kessel signed to big money through their 30s despite being the outlier. There's a lot players put together after 10-12 years of NHL hockey and playoff failures beaten into them that lets them win in the playoffs. Look at Barkov finally getting it after a decade of being a fairly underwhelming playoff performer. Or Trocheck. Even the Capitals won when Ovechkin and Backstrom were highly paid players in their 30s along with Orpik, Niskanen, Oshie, Holtby even Kuznetsov being signed to a contract going to his mid 30s. Vegas relied on Stone, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Martinez signed to those no no contracts on top of an extremely risky trade for Eichel who had even more concern surrounding him at the time than most star players entering FA at 28/29. If the Canes follow this absurd model they're letting Guentzel walk along with much of their defense and basically bringing in stopgaps or green players who need years in the league to get that level of experience. As good as Nikishkin looks to be even if he comes over this year its probably a few years before he can handle playoff hockey at a high level through multiple rounds, and the rest of their prospects look like NHLers but hardly the ones to get them over the hump as core players in the near future. Its almost the perfect approach to prevent yourself from ever going too deep in the playoffs.

Until we see different we all think it’s an actual policy. Aho has been the only notable exception and most of us assume it’s not just because of who he is to the team, it’s because he was only 26 when he got to ufa. Dougie, Tro, Nino all gone. Check back after the first week of free agency and see how many of Guentzel, TT, Skjei, Pesce, Martinook, Chatfield…etc have signed back up with us. Staal had to take a half pay cut to stay and he’s the coaches favorite player. Guentzel would be the first true exception, and he’s highly unlikely even though he was the perfect fit.