Seravalli: Canes discussing long term deal with Kotkaniemi, Canes want 8 years

[Junohockeyfan]

The KK deal hurt Carolina? No. You've seen their record this year?!

Didn't help Carolina. I can imagine that 6M could be put to better use than on the 4th line. And the 1st round pick + as well...

 

[AvatarAang]

I actually don't want him to fail and many other Habs fans feel the same. Nice try pajama boy .

Do you think that the post you replied to as anything to do with me wanting him to bust out or fail? I question your comprehension if you do. Remember, you are the one who came at me with this trash. You upset today with the Leafs loosing to the Canucks. Leafs have been barely a playoff team since Feb 1st. Things getting tight again and you boys don't like it (again). Campbell for the Vezina!

First you claim Kotkaniemi is going to get 7M x 8 years.

After I call you out, you try and change the subject with your weak attempt to troll the Leafs. Do you really think I care about a meaningless loss to Vancouver? The Leafs are headed to the playoffs yet again, while the Habs are headed back to the lottery.

“Leafs have been barely a playoff team since Feb 1st” - says a fan supporting a team that has no chance of making the playoffs

What a cringe post, just stop man you’re embarrassing yourself.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Didn't help Carolina. I can imagine that 6M could be put to better use than on the 4th line. And the 1st round pick + as well...

KK was acquired ahead of time to be Trocheck's successor in the lineup, and he'll likely be paid around his $4.75M AAV salary range in his long-term extension. They plan on him being a 2/3C starting next season. Sometimes teams make proactive moves to keep their lineup strong after the free agents like Nino and Trocheck get their huge contracts.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

KK was acquired ahead of time to be Trocheck's successor in the lineup, and he'll likely be paid around his $4.75M AAV salary range in his long-term extension. They plan on him being a 2/3C starting next season. Sometimes teams make proactive moves to keep their lineup strong after the free agents like Nino and Trocheck get their huge contracts.

KK has been completely unimpressive in his stint with the Canes. I think you are over-selling his future as a 2C on the Canes.

The fact is, this may have been a blessing in disguise for the Habs by not matching that offer. It would have made zero sense for the Habs to deal other pieces just to match that offer for KK. What will be interesting is to see what his future is either with the Canes or another team as a free agent. Similarly, it will be interesting to see if the overpay for Dvorak will work out for the Habs. I wasn't a fan of the Dvorak trade at the time but will give it some time just as i am sure the Canes will try to re-sign KK at a reasonable rate. (say 3.5 - 4M / season for 2 or 3 seasons).

 

[ottawa]

is it just me or has seravalli gone way down hill after leaving tsn

It's just you, he ruined the ED for the NHL just months ago

 

[AvatarAang]

The fact is, this may have been a blessing in disguise for the Habs by not matching that offer. It would have made zero sense for the Habs to deal other pieces just to match that offer for KK.

This logic is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t understand how habs fans think they came out on top even after their GM literally got fired lol

The second sentence is a perfect example of how you use an offersheet to acquire a player that normally would not be available. And a perfect example of a useless offersheet was when your team tried to acquire Aho.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is not a blessing in disguise. If the habs were competent, they would have signed Kotkaniemi to a bridge deal and continue to develop him, similar to Nolan Patrick who signed 2 years at 1.2M.

To put this in perspective, what if someone told you that this year’s lottery pick would be poached by the Canes in a few years, and to replace this lottery pick you acquired another 3rd line C like Dvorak?

The only “blessing in disguise” is that Bergevin got fired, the guy wasted Carey Price’s prime and failed to win a cup with a generational goaltender.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

This logic is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t understand how habs fans think they came out on top even after their GM literally got fired lol

The second sentence is a perfect example of how you use an offersheet to acquire a player that normally would not be available. And a perfect example of a useless offersheet was when your team tried to acquire Aho.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is not a blessing in disguise. If the habs were competent, they would have signed Kotkaniemi to a bridge deal and continue to develop him, similar to Nolan Patrick who signed 2 years at 1.2M.

To put this in perspective, what if someone told you that this year’s lottery pick would be poached by the Canes in a few years, and to replace this lottery pick you acquired another 3rd line C like Dvorak?

The only “blessing in disguise” is that Bergevin got fired, the guy wasted Carey Price’s prime and failed to win a cup with a generational goaltender.

Habs GM got fired because the team was abysmal. Had nothing to do with KK.

Blessing in disguise is a fact. Ehat has Kk done to prove otherwise other getting a bloated contract and a ton of leverage for his next one?

This was a lose lose so far for all parties to date. Let’s wait to see what the final outcome will be before declaring a winner. As it stands the only winner was KK!! lol

 

[Tripledeke333]

This logic is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t understand how habs fans think they came out on top even after their GM literally got fired lol

The second sentence is a perfect example of how you use an offersheet to acquire a player that normally would not be available. And a perfect example of a useless offersheet was when your team tried to acquire Aho.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is not a blessing in disguise. If the habs were competent, they would have signed Kotkaniemi to a bridge deal and continue to develop him, similar to Nolan Patrick who signed 2 years at 1.2M.

To put this in perspective, what if someone told you that this year’s lottery pick would be poached by the Canes in a few years, and to replace this lottery pick you acquired another 3rd line C like Dvorak?

The only “blessing in disguise” is that Bergevin got fired, the guy wasted Carey Price’s prime and failed to win a cup with a generational goaltender.

This is a lose-lose. However, Many would say that having Dvorak is better than having KK at a $6M x 1 year deal.

Also, that $6M in cap space and a 1st round pick could have been used to give Carolina than one extra factor to win a cup. Habs are in rebuild anyway but Canes could miss out on a cup from this.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

If he was a juggernaut defensively, i would agree. But if i am the Canes, i don't risk it. They can spend an additional 2M (7M) and get something proven and something that can help compete for the cup next season.

I disagree but I understand completely why you’d do that. I just think in order to be successful you need to take risks like that.

 

[AvatarAang]

This is a lose-lose. However, Many would say that having Dvorak is better than having KK at a $6M x 1 year deal.

Also, that $6M in cap space and a 1st round pick could have been used to give Carolina than one extra factor to win a cup. Habs are in rebuild anyway but Canes could miss out on a cup from this.

Your first point is a perfect example of why habs fans don’t understand that they got absolutely screwed over by the Canes.

The Canes forced the habs to evaluate whether Dvorak at 4.5M is more valuable than KK at 6M. The habs chose Dvorak who is arguably more valuable this season.

But if the habs were competent, they could have been evaluating whether to keep Kotkaniemi at 1.2M, or trade him for Dvorak at 4.5M.

Habs fans completely ignore the fact that the Canes depreciated Kotkaniemi’s value so much that they panicked and traded for Dvorak instead of keeping the picks.

The Canes turned your dollar into a quarter and y’all panicked and traded that quarter for a penny.

 

[Tripledeke333]

Your first point is a perfect example of why habs fans don’t understand that they got absolutely screwed over by the Canes.

The Canes forced the habs to evaluate whether Dvorak at 4.5M is more valuable than KK at 6M. The habs chose Dvorak who is arguably more valuable this season.

But if the habs were competent, they could have been evaluating whether to keep Kotkaniemi at 1.2M, or trade him for Dvorak at 4.5M.

Habs fans completely ignore the fact that the Canes depreciated Kotkaniemi’s value so much that they panicked and traded for Dvorak instead of keeping the picks.

The Canes turned your dollar into a quarter and y’all panicked and traded that quarter for a penny.

I think the Habs got fair value for the Dvorak trade. IMO the Canes hurt themselves more as I point out in my original post. Paying KK $6M essentially makes him a UFA next year. The Canes spent cap space and draft capital to screw the Habs (a team that is tanking) that they could have used to increase their shot at a cup.

 

[kilowatt]

8 years, $2 million per.

 

[Peter Puck]

Canes took a gamble and it really looks like they lost. They gave up 6M in cap space but more importantly their late first round pick. Now they either have to let KK go to free agency or sign him again for more than he's worth. They can gamble that he will develop into a solid 2nd line centre, but that doesn't look all that likely now.
This hasn't really hurt them too badly though (yet).

Carolina forced the Habs into a bad position but the Habs took a gamble and traded that 1st round pick for Dvorak. Still too early to tell but it looks like the Habs gamble will actually pay off. I suspect the Habs will end up preferring Dvorak to both KK and whoever gets picked with the Canes first rounder. Again, too early to know.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This logic is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t understand how habs fans think they came out on top even after their GM literally got fired lol

The second sentence is a perfect example of how you use an offersheet to acquire a player that normally would not be available. And a perfect example of a useless offersheet was when your team tried to acquire Aho.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is not a blessing in disguise. If the habs were competent, they would have signed Kotkaniemi to a bridge deal and continue to develop him, similar to Nolan Patrick who signed 2 years at 1.2M.

To put this in perspective, what if someone told you that this year’s lottery pick would be poached by the Canes in a few years, and to replace this lottery pick you acquired another 3rd line C like Dvorak?

The only “blessing in disguise” is that Bergevin got fired, the guy wasted Carey Price’s prime and failed to win a cup with a generational goaltender.

I’m sorry, Nolan Patrick is your example?

 

[japhi]

The KK deal hurt Carolina? No. You've seen their record this year?!

This is possibly the worst logic I’ve seen. Heard of opportunity cost?

 

[Mackiaveli]

The only “blessing in disguise” is that Bergevin got fired, the guy wasted Carey Price’s prime and failed to win a cup with a generational goaltender.

this one makes me laugh because Bergevin f***ed up Subban (elite) Pacioretty (elite) and Price (franchise) - and the Leafs fan duly noted it ... but Berg still got to see an ECF and an SCF

Dubas has Tavares (elite) Nylander (elite) Marner (franchise) and Matthews (franchise) in addition to having Reilly (elite) all in their primes and the Leafs literally can't get out of the first round.

unrelated but just found it painfully ironic that you said something about not being able to talk about the Leafs struggles because the Habs can't make the playoffs, but you are talking about playoff success when your team can't win a single round

 

[PAZ]

this one makes me laugh because Bergevin f***ed up Subban (elite) Pacioretty (elite) and Price (franchise) - and the Leafs fan duly noted it ... but Berg still got to see an ECF and an SCF

Dubas has Tavares (elite) Nylander (elite) Marner (franchise) and Matthews (franchise) in addition to having Reilly (elite) all in their primes and the Leafs literally can't get out of the first round.

unrelated but just found it painfully ironic that you said something about not being able to talk about the Leafs struggles because the Habs can't make the playoffs, but you are talking about playoff success when your team can't win a single round

Montreal had ~11 years (or benefited from the return) of Price, Pacioretty and Subban before they got their last hurrah/cinderella run where they still ultimately fell short. Toronto still has another 5-6 years of runway to get to Montreal's peak success.

Kudos to Montreal for making the SCF because that's no easy feat, but you can only cling to that for so long and nobody remembers the runner ups.

 

[Habs Halifax]

First you claim Kotkaniemi is going to get 7M x 8 years.

After I call you out, you try and change the subject with your weak attempt to troll the Leafs. Do you really think I care about a meaningless loss to Vancouver? The Leafs are headed to the playoffs yet again, while the Habs are headed back to the lottery.

“Leafs have been barely a playoff team since Feb 1st” - says a fan supporting a team that has no chance of making the playoffs

What a cringe post, just stop man you’re embarrassing yourself.

Spins to belittle without any comprehension on the point in terms of leverage. Post derail narratives. Congratulations for turning it into a Habs/Leafs conversation.

And how you started it? You think the entire Habs fan base wants KK to fail. False but that's the noise you're spitting out in this nonsense.

I can't control your lack of comprehension on the leverage but at least quote what I'm saying accurately please.
8 year deal: $6M - $7M range.
or
3/4 year deal: $4M - $4.5M range

 

[Chrispy]

That's a bingo. When Koko was in our defacto top 6 when half the team seemingly had Covid he really broke out when he had the chance to play with better linemates. I mean yeah, right now he's not putting up numbers... he's also typically playing between Lorentz and Martinook. When that changes to between Necas (despite his own slump) and Jarvis/Nino and his ice time doubles that changes the equation quite a bit.

Honestly there's a chance that this could work out nicely. There's also a chance it could turn out to be Victor Rask 2.0 right down to the skating issues, it's a gamble whichever way this goes.

It could bomb, but Kotkaniemi can be bought out at 1/3 price anytime through 2025, so there's time to still assess him with a lower risk even with a long-term deal. I think a shorter-term deal like discussed earlier is much more likely (4-5M, 3 years) which would walk Kotkaniemi up to UFA.

I'd bet this is a case of Kotkaniemi & his agent wanting to stay close to the QO, and Carolina saying they will only go close to that on a long-term deal.

I'm not worried about "sunk cost" issues with Carolina. They let Hamilton walk rather than pay him $9M AAV. They also let Ferland walk rather than try to retain value from the trade, which turns out to be the right decision.

And if the argument is they should have saved this 1st for a rental rather than use the 1st on Kotkaniemi: Kotkaniemi is the rental they chose, only for a full year with team option for further years. Carolina has shown a preference to trading for players with multiple years or options left (Hamilton, Trocheck, Skjei) vs strict rentals (only Vatanen due to 19-20 injury issues and Hakanpaa that I recall.)

Dealing a 1st for a playoff rental isn't something I would have expected from Carolina anyway; it doesn't fit into their valuation of a 1st round pick.

 

[Svechhammer]

Canes took a gamble and it really looks like they lost.

 

[bert]

This is a lose-lose. However, Many would say that having Dvorak is better than having KK at a $6M x 1 year deal.

Also, that $6M in cap space and a 1st round pick could have been used to give Carolina than one extra factor to win a cup. Habs are in rebuild anyway but Canes could miss out on a cup from this.

What a ridiculous reach lol. Habs fans come out from hiding and just bringing that high end content we know to expect. Carolina is killing it, walk away.

 

[Svechhammer]

What a ridiculous reach lol.

The hot takes from Montreal over this contract have only gotten more crazy as the year has progressed. KK is playing the same kind of reduced mins we gave Svech and Necas when they were rookies with us, and he's putting points on the board. He's 7th on the team in 5v5 goals despite often playing 1/2 to 1/3 the mins our actual scorers do. Every time he's been given an opportunity with an enhanced role on a higher line he produces. He's been a net positive for us and there's really no way to argue that.

And, lets be honest, the boat anchor contract on our team is Jordan Staal at $6m himself.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

This logic is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t understand how habs fans think they came out on top even after their GM literally got fired lol

The second sentence is a perfect example of how you use an offersheet to acquire a player that normally would not be available. And a perfect example of a useless offersheet was when your team tried to acquire Aho.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is not a blessing in disguise. If the habs were competent, they would have signed Kotkaniemi to a bridge deal and continue to develop him, similar to Nolan Patrick who signed 2 years at 1.2M.

To put this in perspective, what if someone told you that this year’s lottery pick would be poached by the Canes in a few years, and to replace this lottery pick you acquired another 3rd line C like Dvorak?

The only “blessing in disguise” is that Bergevin got fired, the guy wasted Carey Price’s prime and failed to win a cup with a generational goaltender.

Bergevin was horrible we all know that but hells no the habs did good by not matching KK's offersheet its what his 4th year in the NHL and he hasnt improved at all the only mistake we did with him was drafting him over Tkachuk/Hughes

Dvorak hasnt been a great trade so far but our whole team was ass under Ducharme lets see if he does better under St-Louis like the rest of our team has

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bergevin was horrible we all know that but hells no the habs did good by not matching KK's offersheet its what his 4th year in the NHL and he hasnt improved at all the only mistake we did with him was drafting him over Tkachuk/Hughes

Dvorak hasnt been a great trade so far but our whole team was ass under Ducharme lets see if he does better under St-Louis like the rest of our team has

Don't bother wasting your time. He thinks we all want to see KK fail and he's turning a KK contract into a Leafs/Habs thread. Don't fuel the fire

 

[Rene Saari]

You sign good players to long deals, not ok players which is all JK is right now.

You also sign long deals for a promising players which KK is definietly right now. Sad that he’s going to blossom away from MTL.