GDT: cane rwing

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I am literally fine with Ovie scoring 40 goals a year until he's Jagr's age now, I just don't find it impressive in the grand scheme of things. No he should not stop trying to score goals and no he's not barely NHL caliber, so please return your account to grandpa, BBA's grandson. Strawmen arguments are beyond him.

Clearly my comment was sarcasm to illustrate how much I disagree with your take. I didn't think I would need to explain that to you, but I guess I did.

You're saying a guy Ovie's age scoring 40-50 goals a season isn't impressive in the grand scheme of things?

Also, to put it in the right context, Gretzky scored at a rate of 0.60 goals / game throughout his career and Ovie is scoring at 0.61 goals / game. Saying Gretzky could have scored 1000 goals if he wanted to but Ovie is just padding his stats is comical. Gretzky played until he was 38 and scored 9 goals in his last season and 23 the season prior. Ovie scored 50 last season and will probably hit 50 again this season at 37 years old.

Secondly, Gretzky played much of his time in an era where goalies weren't as good, defensemen weren't nearly as good skaters, and NHL Scoring was way higher. Of course, Gretzky was still elite among his peers then so I'm not by any means taking anything away from him, just pointing out that Ovie is playing in a lower scoring era.

Ovie played his entire career in an era where defensemen were better, goalies were better and only 3 players ever hit 60 goals in a season (Ovie being one of them).

I guess it's a take, so I'll give you that.

 

[MisterDobz]

Hot taek alert: Ovie was literally one of my favorite players even when he was carving us up in the Southeast division but at this point he's kinda like Pete Rose, a stat compiler with no real goal other than to break records. Gretzky probably could have scored 1000 goals if he really wanted to so when Ovie breaks his record I will probably just shrug and go on with my day.

Whoa. I gotta take issue with classifying Pete Rose that way. I got to watch him close in 1980 when he led the Phillies to the World Series championship. He was the undisputed leader of the team with multiple hall of famers on it. And Gretzky? If he could have scored 1,000 goals, he would have Scored 1,001. But I do get that feeling with Okie. More like Bonds, just without the steroids.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I get people not liking Ovi for a myriad of reasons. But the dude is by far the best goal scorer (arguably player) of his generation, and arguably the best scorer in league history. Scoring goals is literally half of the equation to winning hockey games. I’d take Ovi on the Canes in a heartbeat right now, “stat padding” or not. He continues to help his team win hockey games, and despite some playoff shortcomings lately, the Caps have still been one of the best teams in the league since their Cup win. Also, been telling disbelieving friends this for a few years but I truly believe it — if Ovi wants to play in the NHL long enough, he will hit 1000 goals.

 

[zman77]

 

[zman77]

 

[To Be Determined]

Whoa. I gotta take issue with classifying Pete Rose that way. I got to watch him close in 1980 when he led the Phillies to the World Series championship. He was the undisputed leader of the team with multiple hall of famers on it. And Gretzky? If he could have scored 1,000 goals, he would have Scored 1,001. But I do get that feeling with Okie. More like Bonds, just without the steroids.

1980 pete rose is a very different animal than mid-80s reds player/manager pete rose, who was putting himself in the lineup sheet when he had really fallen off (and using corked bats) solely to chase the hits record.

Hell, that pete rose is basically the dictionary definition of stat-padding record chaser that adds little to nothing else.

But, yeah, he was still pretty great as an old prior to that point.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

1980 pete rose is a very different animal than mid-80s reds player/manager pete rose, who was putting himself in the lineup sheet when he had really fallen off (and using corked bats) solely to chase the hits record.

Hell, that pete rose is basically the dictionary definition of stat-padding record chaser that adds little to nothing else.

But, yeah, he was still pretty great as an old prior to that point.

That's why the comparison to Ovechkin is such a bad one. Ovie scored 50 goals last year and is on pace for 50 again this year. He's not in the line-up after he's fallen off.

 

[Chrispy]

Now I could be wrong but it seems shutting out the opposition is a winning strategy.

Mike Murphy has entered the chat.

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean I don't like Ovi but I respect his game. I think he's long been a quietly dirty player but people ignore it because of the goals and personality.

That being said, the Caps are all in on his goal scoring record over the next few years and apparently are positioning to pursue that end means any way possible. That franchise is going to have some pretty rough years ahead when he retires, so you kind of just have to enjoy it while you can. I do worry if they're going to make a bit of a joke out of getting him the record by actively force feeding him the puck at the detriment to competitive play, and hope it doesn't cheapen the last bit of that pursuit.

 

[To Be Determined]

That's why the comparison to Ovechkin is such a bad one. Ovie scored 50 goals last year and is on pace for 50 again this year. He's not in the line-up after he's fallen off.

I agree - i think ovechkin is definitely in the phillies era rose spot. And i doubt ovie ever gets to the point rose eventually did. Mostly because i think he breaks the record while he is still a 30-50 goal scorer. After that, if he wants to play half-assed and just score, i think he'd go do it in the khl as a touring hero instead of in the nhl.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I get people not liking Ovi for a myriad of reasons. But the dude is by far the best goal scorer (arguably player) of his generation, and arguably the best scorer in league history. Scoring goals is literally half of the equation to winning hockey games. I’d take Ovi on the Canes in a heartbeat right now, “stat padding” or not. He continues to help his team win hockey games, and despite some playoff shortcomings lately, the Caps have still been one of the best teams in the league since their Cup win. Also, been telling disbelieving friends this for a few years but I truly believe it — if Ovi wants to play in the NHL long enough, he will hit 1000 goals.

I would happily take someone "stat padding" their goal-scoring on our team...only stat we've been padding this season is our opposing goalie's SV %

 

[bleedgreen]

I think Ovie is absolutely a stat chaser and it’s an intentional team concept to support him in that. The owner keeps talking about the record. He just said he doesn’t want to rebuild while he’s chasing the record did he not? I heard that on someone’s broadcast just last night.

So in a way it’s a bit of a cheat, as everyone else’s attempt at such heights was subject to the requirements of the team. To me it does diminish it just a touch but….

This is a player in his late 30’s that can still score this much. He’s doing the damn thing. I don’t think he’s a fraction of the player Gretzky was….or many of the players he’s passing for that matter but he may end up being the best goal scorer of all time. Gretzky did stop being a goal scorer, he did accept being more of a playmaker as the team won more games with him camping behind the net using his other elite skill that no one else has touched. They’ve been feeding Ovie one timers forever and he just keeps hitting them. Defenses keep not being able to keep it away from him and goalies keep being able to not read the ovie knuckle puck. Hammering away with a whippy stick and a crazy open curve with a shot that’s more Happy Gilmour than a refined machine. While I’ll always say Kovalchuk was a better pure shooter there’s no choice but to bow to the longevity and consistency. He goes to the dirty areas and buried rebounds like a greedy kid wanting another cupcake. He found his niche and he’s never dreamed of doing a single thing different.

He’s stayed healthy, he’s had the supporting cast kept together by team that knows he’s still putting butts in the seats even though they aren’t championship quality. There’s some aspect that diminish it a touch for me but you have to tip the cap, he did it. He’d be the best goal scorer we ever had if we traded for him NOW.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think Ovie is absolutely a stat chaser and it’s an intentional team concept to support him in that. The owner keeps talking about the record. He just said he doesn’t want to rebuild while he’s chasing the record did he not? I heard that on someone’s broadcast just last night.

So in a way it’s a bit of a cheat, as everyone else’s attempt at such heights was subject to the requirements of the team. To me it does diminish it just a touch but….

I'll counter that with the following:

1) If the Caps weren't a competitive playoff team then maybe I'd agree with you, but over the past 5 seasons, they have the 5th highest points % in the nhl and 7th highest in the past 3 seasons. It's not like they are a bad team just getting him the record, they are still a very good team that is winning games.

2) The talk of "not rebuilding" is silly. Few if any teams with players like OV "rebuild", particularly when they are still a playoff team.
- Pens aren't rebuilding as long as Crosby can breathe.
- Chicago has been holding on to Kane and Toews while going out and trading for Jones in an attempt to stay relevant. They are finally looking at a rebuild because they've sucked for a few years now (unlike the Caps).
- Kings are keeping Kopitar, Doughty, etc.. while trying to "re-tool" and they've sucked for a few years.
- San Jose held on forever with Thornton, Burns, etc.. and even went out and grabbed Karlsson to try and stay relevant before finally seeing with writing on the wall when they started sucking.
- Vancouver wasn't going to rebuild as long as the Sedins could still play.
- Detroit wasn't going to rebuild as long as Datsyuk and Zetterburg were still viable NHL players
etc...etc...

No team looks to rebuild when you have a generational player and have consistently been a top team in the NHL. Saying that because the Caps aren't rebuilding diminishes Ovechkin's scoring is a bit ridiculous to me.

3) The caps have made the playoffs EVERY year starting 2 years after OV arrived. Isn't that the goal of a team? To get to the playoffs and win cup? Aren't you one that has said you'd take years of playoffs over 1 cup and done? Isn't that exactly what the Caps are doing? Because of that you think it diminishes the accomplishment?

This is a player in his late 30’s that can still score this much. He’s doing the damn thing. I don’t think he’s a fraction of the player Gretzky was….

I don't think anyone is suggesting he's as good as Gretzky. I think people are suggesting that Ovechkin is one of the best goal scorers every to lace them up. That's undeniable. I think it's also undeniable that he's accomplished what he did in an era where it is much more difficult to score.

Gretzky did stop being a goal scorer, he did accept being more of a playmaker as the team won more games with him camping behind the net using his other elite skill that no one else has touched. They’ve been feeding Ovie one timers forever and he just keeps hitting them. Defenses keep not being able to keep it away from him and goalies keep being able to not read the ovie knuckle puck. Hammering away with a whippy stick and a crazy open curve with a shot that’s more Happy Gilmour than a refined machine.

I view his shot as an elite skill that no one else has touched.

EDIT: I do think OV wants to break the record and will strive to do that, what player wouldn't. I just don't think it diminishes the achievement at all like has been indicated by a few here.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

To add on to it.

Gretzky joined the league in 79 and scored the majority of his goals between 1979 and 1993. During that stretch, the NHL average for goals / game was:
Average: 3.71 goals / game
High season: 4.01
Low season: 3.24

During Ovechkins stretch:
Average: 2.89 goals / game
High season: 3.18 (this season)
Low season: 2.71

Ovechkin is accomplishing what he is accomplishing in an era that is much more difficult to score in that when Gretzky and some of the other top scorers have scored their goals. Watch some of the clips of Gretzky scoring 5 goals in a game. Look at the defensemen's skating ability, the size of the goalies, the gear of the goalies, the speed of the players, etc...

Gretzky is the best player to play (although I think McDavid might be superior and Mario, if healthy was close). OV isn't as good of an overall player as those guys, but in terms of goal scoring, what OV is accomplishing is as impressive, if not more impressive and he's one of the best goal scorers of all time, if not the best.

 

[MinJaBen]

To add on to it.

Gretzky joined the league in 79 and scored the majority of his goals between 1979 and 1993. During that stretch, the NHL average for goals / game was:
Average: 3.71 goals / game
High season: 4.01
Low season: 3.24

During Ovechkins stretch:
Average: 2.89 goals / game
High season: 3.18 (this season)
Low season: 2.71

Ovechkin is accomplishing what he is accomplishing in an era that is much more difficult to score in that when Gretzky and some of the other top scorers have scored their goals. Watch some of the clips of Gretzky scoring 5 goals in a game. Look at the defensemen's skating ability, the size of the goalies, the gear of the goalies.

Gretzky is the best player to play (although I think McDavid might be superior and Mario, if healthy was close). OV isn't as good of an overall player as those guys, but in terms of goal scoring, what OV is accomplishing is as impressive, if not more impressive and he's one of the best goal scorers of all time, if not the best.

If I'm remember correctly, didn't Alex also do all of this while having more seasons/games lost to work stopages, lockouts and obviously COVID shortened seasons.

 

[Borsig]

Gretzky was a better overall player. More hockey sense, more passing, and skating ability, etc. Ovie is a better raw scorer, but ALOT of his goals come on the PP from being left open just to stand there. There are memes ffs.

Lots of things have changed. Do modern sticks and old goalie gear cancel each other out?

In the end, Ovie is a better goal scorer, be it by whatever reason. But 99 in his prime would win you more games. He was a better overall player. Different animals.

Ovie is going to outlast Gretzky. by 37-38 Gretzky was done. Ovie will be one of the few Forwards to play effectively to 40.

 

[Unsustainable]

If only Mario didn’t have have all of his health issues.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'll counter that with the following:

1) If the Caps weren't a competitive playoff team then maybe I'd agree with you, but over the past 5 seasons, they have the 5th highest points % in the nhl and 7th highest in the past 3 seasons. It's not like they are a bad team just getting him the record, they are still a very good team that is winning games.

2) The talk of "not rebuilding" is silly. Few if any teams with players like OV "rebuild", particularly when they are still a playoff team.
- Pens aren't rebuilding as long as Crosby can breathe.
- Chicago has been holding on to Kane and Toews while going out and trading for Jones in an attempt to stay relevant. They are finally looking at a rebuild because they've sucked for a few years now (unlike the Caps).
- Kings are keeping Kopitar, Doughty, etc.. while trying to "re-tool" and they've sucked for a few years.
- San Jose held on forever with Thornton, Burns, etc.. and even went out and grabbed Karlsson to try and stay relevant before finally seeing with writing on the wall when they started sucking.
- Vancouver wasn't going to rebuild as long as the Sedins could still play.
- Detroit wasn't going to rebuild as long as Datsyuk and Zetterburg were still viable NHL players
etc...etc...

No team looks to rebuild when you have a generational player and have consistently been a top team in the NHL. Saying that because the Caps aren't rebuilding diminishes Ovechkin's scoring is a bit ridiculous to me.

3) The caps have made the playoffs EVERY year starting 2 years after OV arrived. Isn't that the goal of a team? To get to the playoffs and win cup? Aren't you one that has said you'd take years of playoffs over 1 cup and done? Isn't that exactly what the Caps are doing? Because of that you think it diminishes the accomplishment?



I don't think anyone is suggesting he's as good as Gretzky. I think people are suggesting that Ovechkin is one of the best goal scorers every to lace them up. That's undeniable. I think it's also undeniable that he's accomplished what he did in an era where it is much more difficult to score.

I view his shot as an elite skill that no one else has touched.

EDIT: I do think OV wants to break the record and will strive to do that, what player wouldn't. I just don't think it diminishes the achievement at all like has been indicated by a few here.

The owner himself has said he won’t rebuild because of chasing the record. I’m not saying they needed to really rebuild only that it’s clear that even to the owner they’re going to do everything they can to stay competitive for that purpose. You can’t say that another team wouldnt have taken a look at what they have and reshuffled by now, they’re getting old but it would be a risk to set them back a year or two could make them better in the future. They’re not going to take many chances there as concept from the top down while he’s chasing this.

Most sane people don’t think he’s a Gretzky but the stat will be used forever in comparisons by those who will say he’s better. To me it’s more than Gretzky.

I think Hull and Kovalchuk both had better shots but it’s irrelevant. Ovie did more with his.

 

[bleedgreen]

To add on to it.

Gretzky joined the league in 79 and scored the majority of his goals between 1979 and 1993. During that stretch, the NHL average for goals / game was:
Average: 3.71 goals / game
High season: 4.01
Low season: 3.24

During Ovechkins stretch:
Average: 2.89 goals / game
High season: 3.18 (this season)
Low season: 2.71

Ovechkin is accomplishing what he is accomplishing in an era that is much more difficult to score in that when Gretzky and some of the other top scorers have scored their goals. Watch some of the clips of Gretzky scoring 5 goals in a game. Look at the defensemen's skating ability, the size of the goalies, the gear of the goalies, the speed of the players, etc...

Gretzky is the best player to play (although I think McDavid might be superior and Mario, if healthy was close). OV isn't as good of an overall player as those guys, but in terms of goal scoring, what OV is accomplishing is as impressive, if not more impressive and he's one of the best goal scorers of all time, if not the best.

McDavid to me has way more raw athletic talent than Gretzky but has less of the pure poise. So much is dependent on that crazy speed. We don’t see the same kind of vision at this point. Yes I’d say his speed helps him see one or two steps ahead but Gretzky was beyond that.

To me Mario was flat out the best. Could do everything Gretzky could do, was a better shooter, could stick handle through any problem and could carry defenders on him. Was at his best when it mattered the most, could do the crazy things he did while under the brightest spotlight. His body couldn’t last long enough for the records.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The owner himself has said he won’t rebuild because of chasing the record. I’m not saying they needed to really rebuild only that it’s clear that even to the owner they’re going to do everything they can to stay competitive for that purpose. You can’t say that another team wouldnt have taken a look at what they have and reshuffled by now, they’re getting old but it would be a risk to set them back a year or two could make them better in the future. They’re not going to take many chances there as concept from the top down while he’s chasing this.

Again, they've been a top 5 team in the NHL in points % the past 5 seasons. Of course the owner wants to get him the record, but the goal is also to win and right now, keeping these vets gives them the best chance to win. Even if Ovechkin wasn't going for the record, he isn't rebuilding the same way the other teams I mentioned aren't (Pitt just doubled down on bringing Malkin and Letang back as a comparison).

If the team was not making the playoffs or a bottom team, then I might agree with you but a team can have an objective to win (like the Pens by re-signing Malkin and Letting) and also have an objective to have him get the record.

Most sane people don’t think he’s a Gretzky but the stat will be used forever in comparisons by those who will say he’s better. To me it’s more than Gretzky.

I think Hull and Kovalchuk both had better shots but it’s irrelevant. Ovie did more with his.

That's fine. I don't take objection to someone sayin player x had a better shot. The "padding stats" notion seems silly to me when his team is still winning, making the playoffs and he's still an elite goal scorer.

Gretzky's teams made the playoffs 1 time in his last 6 years by comparison.

McDavid to me has way more raw athletic talents than Gretzky but has less of the pure poise. So much is dependent on that crazy speed. We don’t see the same kind of vision at this point. Yes I’d say his speed helps him see one or two steps ahead but Gretzky was behold that.

Agree. It's more than the raw speed though for McDavid. It's the ability to make plays at such that speed that sets him apart. Different players for sure.

Unfortunately for McDavid, he's never had the talent around him that Gretzky did. Messier, Kurri, Gretzky, Lowe, Coffey, etc... just incredibly.

To me Mario was flat out the best. Could do everything Gretzky could do, was a better shooter, could stick handle through any problem and could carry defenders on him. Was at his best when it mattered the most, could do the crazy things he did while under the brightest spotlight. His body couldn’t last long enough for the records.

Agree.

 

[bleedgreen]

Again, they've been a top 5 team in the NHL in points % the past 5 seasons. Of course the owner wants to get him the record, but the goal is also to win and right now, keeping these vets gives them the best chance to win. Even if Ovechking wasn't going for the record, he isn't rebuilding the same way the other teams I mentioned aren't (Pitt just doubled down on bringing Malkin and Letang back as a comparison).

If the team was not making the playoffs or a bottom team, then I might agree with you but a team can have an objective to win (like the Pens by re-signing Malkin and Letting) and also have an objective to have him get the record.


That's fine. I don't take objection to someone sayin player x had a better shot. The "padding stats" notion seems silly to me when his team is still winning, making the playoffs and he's still an elite goal scorer.

Gretzky's teams made the playoffs 1 time in his last 6 years by comparison.

I don’t disagree that Gretzky declined at the end and Ovie is growing older better. Gretzky shined brighter through his prime.

Ovie has been padding the stats for a long time. He wants the record. The stats he pads run along with winning games and the skill he has is the hardest thing to bring to the table so there’s no reason for him not to pad the stats.

The caps are a good team, and much like us they believe just get to the playoffs and then everyone has a chance. Their core is very good. They’ve gotten old and if you wanted to be better five years from now you’d be making moves to prepare for that. Their owner has said he won’t take chances that way, because of this. You can say they don’t need to because of winning percentages, fair enough. I think it’s obvious they could really use to mind the future but they’re making a choice. They’ll sacrifice being bad for a few years post Ovie so he can maybe get the record, and since his scoring helps them win they may even be able to catch fire when it matters most and get another cup. The two goals run along side each other. Doesn’t mean they aren’t catering to Ovie and the record, especially when they say they are.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think Hull and Kovalchuk both had better shots but it’s irrelevant. Ovie did more with his.

As a side note, I met Hull one time in college. He was good friends with a hockey player that lived next to me at the school I went to, so when UMD played they got together. I knew the guy fairly well (Ally Cook is his name). I saw a speech from Hull many years later where he mentioned Ally and said it was Ally that kept him from quitting hockey when he was in his teens.

Just did a google search and here's the story.

"As he told the story to the News Tribune in 1984, Hull was ready to quit hockey as a teenager, but was coaxed by friend Ally Cook to try out with the Penticton Knights of the British Columbia Hockey League. Hull had 48 goals in 50 games with Penticton in 1982-83, then an incredible 105 goals in 57 games in 1983-84."

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don’t disagree that Gretzky declined at the end and Ovie is growing older better. Gretzky shined brighter through his prime.

No argument there. I will add though that Ovie's prime was in an era where goal scoring was considerably tougher. Still, Gretz in his prime was head and shoulders above his competition.

Ovie has been padding the stats for a long time. He wants the record. The stats he pads run along with winning games and the skill he has is the hardest thing to bring to the table so there’s no reason for him not to pad the stats.

I don't get this "padding stats" thing. Since he's entered the league, he's a goal scorer and scoring goals is what he does best and what helps his team win. How is scoring 49 five years ago any different than scoring 50 last year? It's not "padding stats" when you are doing what you are paid to do and helping your team win.

To me, padding stats is if Ovi is no longer NHL caliber and the Caps just trot him out for the PP only to score goals even if it's at the detriment of the team. That's not happening. I guess maybe you have a different definition of padding stats.

Just seems that you and a few others just want to downplay his accomplishment because you have an opinion that guys of yesteryear are better.

The caps are a good team, and much like us they believe just get to the playoffs and then everyone has a chance. Their core is very good. They’ve gotten old and if you wanted to be better five years from now you’d be making moves to prepare for that. Their owner has said he won’t take chances that way, because of this. You can say they don’t need to because of winning percentages, fair enough. I think it’s obvious they could really use to mind the future but they’re making a choice. They’ll sacrifice being bad for a few years post Ovie so he can maybe get the record, and since his scoring helps them win they may even be able to catch fire when it matters most and get another cup. The two goals run along side each other. Doesn’t mean they aren’t catering to Ovie and the record, especially when they say they are.

If the Caps were operating differently than other teams in their situation that I mentioned earlier (Pens, Hawks, Wings, Kings, Sharks, etc..), then you'd have an argument that they are doing it for Ovi. But they aren't, so that argument rings hollow to me.

 

[bleedgreen]

As a side note, I met Hull one time in college. He was good friends with a hockey player that lived next to me at the school I went to so when UMD played they got together. I knew the guy fairly well (Ally Cooke is his name). I saw a speech from Hull many years later where he mentioned Ally and said it was Ally that kept him from quitting hockey when he was in his teens.

Just did a google search and here's the story.

"As he told the story to the News Tribune in 1984, Hull was ready to quit hockey as a teenager, but was coaxed by friend Ally Cook to try out with the Penticton Knights of the British Columbia Hockey League. Hull had 48 goals in 50 games with Penticton in 1982-83, then an incredible 105 goals in 57 games in 1983-84."

That’s awesome. Funny how so much can turn on small things.

I played roller hockey against his brother Bart. I was in a full contact/fighting travel league that was trying to develop roller into pro and we went to Idaho for a weekend set of games. He was the name they built the rink around so he played in the first game. He was chomping on a cigar just like his Dad and bro off the rink, talked the same way. We almost accidentally slammed into each other in open space and he laughed…”staying away from you big guy!”…which was funny because I almost called him sir. He was barely skating, way too old, and could score from center rink with a roller puck with a flick of his wrists.

Side note, I was knocked unconscious in the second game. A guy threw a dirty hit to my face while we were in the power play so I wasn’t expecting it on the side boards. He knocked me through the boards, they caved outward as roller rink boards were often cheap crap. Took them twenty minutes to fix them while I was counting birdies on the bench.

 

[bleedgreen]

No argument there. I will add though that Ovie's prime was in an era where goal scoring was considerably tougher. Still, Gretz in his prime was head and shoulders above his competition.

I don't get this "padding stats" thing. Since he's entered the league, he's a goal scorer and scoring goals is what he does best and what helps his team win. How is scoring 49 five years ago any different than scoring 50 last year? It's not "padding stats" when you are doing what you are paid to do and helping your team win.

To me, padding stats is if Ovi is no longer NHL caliber and the Caps just trot him out for the PP only to score goals even if it's at the detriment of the team. That's not happening. I guess maybe you have a different definition of padding stats.

Just seems that you and a few others just want to downplay his accomplishment because you have an opinion that guys of yesteryear are better.



If the Caps were operating differently than other teams in their situation that I mentioned earlier (Pens, Hawks, Wings, Kings, Sharks, etc..), then you'd have an argument that they are doing it for Ovi. But they aren't, so that argument rings hollow to me.

Lol I think he’s amazing. I’m not to downplay his accomplishments I just see it differently than you. We’ve both seen the greats through their careers, I have a hard time putting him up quite as high because he just isn’t the same kind of player to me. Yes he’s doing it in a different era, but I think the sticks have helped him. He perfected the art of cranking one timers with a light flex stick that has forgiveness on mishits, and the curve puts ridiculous english on it that fools goalies. Good for him that way. Yes he scored all the acrobatic goals and that was ALL him, but so many of his goals are the one timer on the pp that he switches his sticks for. They’re too whippy for him 5v5. He has accomplished something amazing and for it he deserves the all time recognition. I just have a limit with him and it’s not based in some bias.