Confirmed with Link: Canadiens Will Pick 5th (Hughes Presser in OP) NO POLITICS

[yianik]

Who gives a shit if an extremely elite offensive talent plays defense

We haven’t had a 100 pt player this century lmfao

I forget who said what, but when the Islanders were looking around drafting Mike Bossy, someone said Bossy can't play defence, and Arbour or Torrey replied, to paraphrase, that's fine, we'll teach him how to play defence.

Over the last few decades we have gone into this every player must play 2 way hockey mindset. So no to Lafleur or Gretzky ? As always, it's a flaw, but if the good outweighs the bad, there you are.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I forget who said what, but when the Islanders were looking around drafting Mike Bossy, someone said Bossy can't play defence, and Arbour or Torrey replied, to paraphrase, that's fine, we'll teach him how to play defence.

Over the last few decades we have gone into this every player must play 2 way hockey mindset. So no to Lafleur or Gretzky ? As always, it's a flaw, but if the good outweighs the bad, there you are.

Exactly

You couldn’t teach Michkov’s offensive instincts in a million years

We have to ditch this Bergevin-esque thinking where we want to turn a potential 50g 100pt player into a grinder

 

[David Suzuki]

I think we can safely say that the narrative on Michkov is not much about his contract but more about his size, disinterest for defense, poor demeanor.

he’s 18 of course he isn’t a finished product lol

“he has flaws” is an obvious thing, what some contend is that he’s worth taking even with those flaws. The inability for some to see that that is what people are saying is Mcagg-esque head in the sandism.

 

[417]

It's the combination of things. It's not as simple as -just- his current contract but I've given up at this point trying to contextualize it all for people. They want Michkov and there's no reason or cumulative reasons good enough for them to understand anything but picking Michkov.

It's unfortunate that the media/fans will have and have painted this situation as "Montreal will pass on Michkov" but in reality, based on his talent and accomplishments, he should probably be going #2 or at worst, #3 (or at least that's what I've been told)...which of course means up to 4 teams will have passed on him if the Habs do end up passing on him @ 5.

So clearly, fair or not, there are some red flags and it's not just as simple as picking the best talent available. The risk at #2, 3, 4 or 5...is totally different then the risk at #8-9-10, etc.

Let's just keep moving those goalposts. Hopefully, eventually one will make sense.



Try harder. Please, WTK, for the sake of all our sanity, be the solution we need. I really mean this.

Instead of hiding behind the rhetoric of who they might pick should they pass. Please tell us how passing on Michkov makes sense.

This is all any of us want to know. 9000+ posts later in this thread and this still hasn't been explained.

I mean...there's got to be reasons why the player most widely consider to be #2 behind Bedard in terms of pure talent, is expected to not be picked before #5 at the earliest by most draft experts.

 

[HabbyGuy]

I mean...there's got to be reasons why the player most widely consider to be #2 behind Bedard in terms of pure talent, is expected to not be picked before #5 at the earliest by most draft experts.

You'd think, and yet here we are.

 

[ReHabs]

30 players produced 82 points or more last year. Several more averaged a point per game or better. I don’t think PPG is really “elite”. It might’ve been a few years back but scoring is way up now.

So it’s even more imperative to have PPG players and not sub-PPG players.

 

[Jaynki]

It's the combination of things. It's not as simple as -just- his current contract but I've given up at this point trying to contextualize it all for people. They want Michkov and there's no reason or cumulative reasons good enough for them to understand anything but picking Michkov.

Of course.

Michkov is a guaranteed perennial 100 points producer. Dvorsky is at best a 3C. Reinbacher a good 2nd pair defensive rd and Leonard a 3rd liner with grit.

Why think a bit more when its so simple?

 

[Milhouse40]

Michkov faces much tougher opposition than Leonard. It’s not comparable. Michkov’s numbers in KHL are correlated to a number of incredible NHL players.

So are the numbers of Leonard in the minors......

Ton of people were really high on Cooley last year.....Leonard has better numbers
Better numbers than Zegras, Boldy, Tkachuk.....and that's without mentioning all his other skils as none of them were considered 20way players as Leonard is

So what, numbers in the minors don't mean shit.

 

[Jaynki]

he’s 18 of course he isn’t a finished product lol

“he has flaws” is an obvious thing, what some contend is that he’s worth taking even with those flaws. The inability for some to see that that is what people are saying is Mcagg-esque head in the sandism.

Every prospects has flaws even Bedard. Are you surprised Leonard and Smith also has flaws?

Its where the debate is. Which player do we believe is the best with its strenght and its weakness?

The thing, there is no debate here, its Michkov or bust.

When really we could have a debate with all of Fantilli, Carlsson, Michkov, Smith, Leonard, Reinbacher, Dvorsky

 

[417]

You'd think, and yet here we are.

Well we can't act like there are no considerations here...if it was as simple as most people think, then Michkov would be the undisputed #2 pick based on talent/pedigree alone.

Again, there's a reason why most people think he's going to drop to #8 at the earliest (whether we consider them legitimate or not).

I know that when/if that happens, the storyline is going to be the Montreal Canadiens passed on him...but the real story here is the Anaheim Ducks, Columbus Blue Jackets, San Jose Sharks AND the Montreal Canadiens will have passed on him.

Contrary to popular belief, the Habs aren't picking #2.

 

[Jaynki]

Who gives a shit if an extremely elite offensive talent plays defense

We haven’t had a 100 pt player this century lmfao

Listen, i agree.

Lets just make some points clear.

1) Michkov is not a guaranteed 100 points player.

2) Michkov might not be available at 2.

3) The team that just won the SC acquired its two stars forward via 2 trades and its 1D in free agency.

4) Leonard might be a 100 points player although its not envision here. (I would bet on Michkov between them both tho, but its a possibility).

We should expand the debate a bit more than Michkov elite the rest grinder.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Well we can't act like there are no considerations here...if it was as simple as most people think, then Michkov would be the undisputed #2 pick based on talent/pedigree alone.

Again, there's a reason why most people think he's going to drop to #8 at the earliest (whether we consider them legitimate or not).

I know that when/if that happens, the storyline is going to be the Montreal Canadiens passed on him...but the real story here is the Anaheim Ducks, Columbus Blue Jackets, San Jose Sharks AND the Montreal Canadiens will have passed on him.

Contrary to popular belief, the Habs aren't picking #2.

The only concern I can see is the mystery surrounding Michkov with teams not being able to get a full evaluation, And yet despite this legitimate concern, every single scout that Mackenzie talked to had him firmly in the top 5, some as high as 2. This literally screams of their faith in his talent, and should be seen as a obvious endorsement for Michkov, not the opposite.

 

[417]

The only concern I can see is the mystery surrounding Michkov with teams not being able to get a full evaluation, And yet despite this legitimate concern, every scout that Mackenzie talked to had him firmly in the top 5, some as high as 2. This literally screams of their faith in his talent, and should been seen an obvious positive not the opposite.

Which, let's be fair, if you're a team picking 2-5 in this draft..is absolutely terrifying and I'd personally hate to have to be in that position.

Easy to say from my point of view that if Michkov is there at 5, you run to the podium and take him. I'm not the one invested in picking a player here.

I'm not saying I wouldn't pick Michkov if he was there at 5 (I probably would based on everything i've read about him and the fact I haven't watched a player score more than 85pts + since the days of Damphousse & Turgeon), what i'm saying I totally understand why some teams in the top 5 would be apprehensive about it.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Which, let's be fair, if you're a team picking 2-5 in this draft..is absolutely terrifying and I'd personally hate to have to be in that position.

Easy to say from my point of view that if Michkov is there at 5, you run to the podium and take him. I'm not the one invested in picking a player here.

I'm not saying I wouldn't pick Michkov if he was there at 5 (I probably would based on everything i've read about him and the fact I haven't watched a player score more than 85pts + since the days of Damphousse & Turgeon), what i'm saying I totally understand why some teams in the top 5 would be apprehensive about it.

I'm don't care about other teams in the top 5. I'm asking strictly from the point of view of our decision if he's there at 5. When all other options are gone, as he'd be vastly the BPA and exactly the type of prospect we've been pining over for decades.

 

[Doublechin]

No one thought Tkachuk would score 100 points in his draft year. If they did, he would have gone 2nd or 3rd overall.

The convo around him was very similar to Leonard when it came to upside, he plays a 2 way game, he has compete but offensively he might never be special. Many thought he was a product of Dvorak and Marner FFS and that he was just helping create space.

It's deja vu for me...mind you, not saying he'll turn into the modern MT that's a top 5 to 8 player in the league.

 

[417]

I'm don't care about other teams in the top 5. I'm asking strictly from the point of view of our decision if he's there at 5. When all other options are gone, as he' be vastly the BPA and exactly the type of prospect we've been pining over for decades.

Well is it not fair, in this circumstance, to wonder why he's there at all @ 5?

Again, I completely agree that he fits the type of profile of prospect we've been starved for...but if he's this near generational-level player many claim he is, and the other 3 picked ahead of him (assuming those are Fantilli, Smith and Carlsson) aren't on the same level, then why/how is he somehow available @ 5?

I get the BPA angle but there are other considerations at play here, it would be silly to act like there aren't.

If he's there at 5, it isn't because the Ducks, Blue Jackets and Sharks scouting staffs don't know what they're doing and if the Habs end up passing on him like those teams did, then it's probably because they came to the same conclusion (which mind you, doesn't preclude them from all being wrong either)

 

[HabbyGuy]

Well is it not fair, in this circumstance, to wonder why he's there at all @ 5?

Again, I completely agree that he fits the type of profile of prospect we've been starved for...but if he's this near generational-level player many claim he is, the the other 3 picked ahead of him (assuming those are Fantilli, Smith and Carlsson) aren't on the same level.

I get the BPA angle but there are other considerations at play here, it would be silly to act like there aren't.

If he's there at 5, it isn't because the Ducks, Blue Jackets and Sharks scouting staffs don't know what they're doing and if the Habs end up passing on him like those teams did, then it's probably because they came to the same conclusion (which mind you, doesn't preclude them from all being wrong either)

I've explained why he'd be there at 5 with all the mystery surrounding him and perceived safer options available to those in front of us. It is the ONLY reason he'd be there otherwise.

And despite this concern every scout still has him up there. Which is an endorsement to his talent not the opposite.

 

[ReHabs]

Well is it not fair, in this circumstance, to wonder why he's there at all @ 5?

Again, I completely agree that he fits the type of profile of prospect we've been starved for...but if he's this near generational-level player many claim he is, and the other 3 picked ahead of him (assuming those are Fantilli, Smith and Carlsson) aren't on the same level, then why/how is he somehow available @ 5?

I get the BPA angle but there are other considerations at play here, it would be silly to act like there aren't.

If he's there at 5, it isn't because the Ducks, Blue Jackets and Sharks scouting staffs don't know what they're doing and if the Habs end up passing on him like those teams did, then it's probably because they came to the same conclusion (which mind you, doesn't preclude them from all being wrong either)

It’s been long stated and accepted why Michkov might be available at 5.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The tool of the bankrupt position. "U mad?"

Not even passed 5am and you've already used two of your favorite weapons, the strawman and the ad hominem.

Gonna be a great day

 

[HabbyGuy]

It’s been long stated and accepted why Michkov might be available at 5.

This should be obvious.

 

[Genghis Keon]

Of course you can't 100% predict where a player will end up in their career. When you draft someone, you're projecting ahead and playing with probabilities. However, that isn't to say that certain attributes don't predict success better than others.

An insane level of talent (which Michkov has), I would say, is the primary predictor of future success.

I agree, but I don't see how that means it's ridiculous to think Leonard could have a Marchand or Pavelski like impact.

I'd take Michkov. I don't think it's likely that we'll get another chance to take that kind of player anytime soon. But that doesn't mean Leonard, Reinbacher, Dvorsky, Benson, Wood, Moore, whoever can't be great players in their own right.

 

[417]

I've explained why he'd be there at 5 with all the mystery surrounding him and perceived safer options available to those in front of us. It is the ONLY reason he'd be there otherwise.

And despite this concern every scout still has him up there. Which is an endorsement to his talent not the opposite.

His talent is undeniable, but again, if it was just about that...then he'd be the unquestioned #2

But he ain't.

It’s been long stated and accepted why Michkov might be available at 5.

Ok?

Knowing this, if the Habs do indeed pass on him @ 5, wouldn't it stand to reason that they'd pass for the same reasons that made him available @ 5 in the first place?

 

[HabbyGuy]

His talent is undeniable, but again, if it was just about that...then he'd be the unquestioned #2

But he ain't.

Sigh. I give up, it's like I'm screaming into the void. We've established why it understandable he wouldn't go 2nd. What we can't establish is why he shouldn't go 5th.

 

[417]

This should be obvious.

Of course it's obvious lol but that's not what I was debating with you.

I was debating the issue of those suggesting that if the Habs pass on him @ 5, they'd be making a huge mistake.

Maybe it would/will end up being a huge mistake, but it's the same for the teams ahead of them too.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Of course it's obvious lol but that's not what I was debating with you.

I was debating the issue of those suggesting that if the Habs pass on him @ 5, they'd be making a huge mistake.

Maybe it would/will end up being a huge mistake, but it's the same for the teams ahead of them too.

It's not though!! The teams ahead of us have concrete viable options that makes sense available to them. The habs don't.