Confirmed with Link: Canadiens Will Pick 5th (Hughes Presser in OP) NO POLITICS

[waffledave]

The summer interview with Bob was astonishing from the start. Bob said something like you just went to the conference final and for some reason lost/trade/waived 5 out of 6 defenceman during the summer... Bergy hammered his defense was much better now, Weber is exactly what this team was missing ( we needed more goals you stupid duck) and how he'd never trade a superstar D like Morgan Reilly just after he boot PK away.

Bob couldn't keep a straight face in front of such stupidity, great interview.


You're defending the Alzner signing instead of Markov for 1 more million and 3-4 more years?

How's that even possible? We are still paying the guy lol

Bergevin thought that Karl Alzner was John Carlson.

Nobody can convince me otherwise.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The summer interview with Bob was astonishing from the start. Bob said something like you just went to the conference final and for some reason lost/trade/waived 5 out of 6 defenceman during the summer... Bergy hammered his defense was much better now, Weber is exactly what this team was missing ( we needed more goals you stupid duck) and how he'd never trade a superstar D like Morgan Reilly just after he boot PK away.

Bob couldn't keep a straight face in front of such stupidity, great interview.

Omg i had almost forgot that Reilly bit.

Bergevin thought that Karl Alzner was John Carlson.

Nobody can convince me otherwise.

I will

Bergevin simply went on "reputation", without ever thinking those player reputations might belong only to the past.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Alzner was averaging around 20 min of ice time on the best team in the league. Yes, he had a down season, but the idea that he was for sure done as an NHL player is nonsense.

No man, he was absolutely cooked. The guy was done before he played a single game for the Habs. There is no revisionist case that makes Alzner even remotely defensible, it was atrocious from day 1.

You can deflect with Chiarot/Edmundson all you like but those guys were paid to a level where it would have been acceptable if they were just #6s and ended up outperforming their $. The odds that Alzner was going to live up to a 5x4.6 deal were astonishingly low.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

You're defending the Alzner signing instead of Markov for 1 more million and 3-4 more years?

How's that even possible? We are still paying the guy lol

Markov has nothing to do with it. They could've easily had both Markov and Alzner.

 

[JoelWarlord]

David Savard was coming off a similar situation when the habs signed him, and it has been a decent signing. He had a down last season with Columbus and was sparingly used by Tampa in the playoffs. Savard rebounded with the habs, and the hope when Alzner was signed was that he would do the same.

Sorry for another response but this is just completely false. Alzner was transparently signed to be a long-term top 4 fixture with Weber or Petry. He was paid top 4 money, got 5 years, was talked about as a potential partner for Petry, and was given a whole season in that role. The hope when they signed him is that he would play 22 minutes a night next to Petry and form part of a really strong top 4 pairing that would play a big role for a team that was trying to contend.

Savard was given 4x3.5M to be a #4-5 and a decent veteran plug because we had nobody else on the right side who could kill penalties or play stay at home D. Savard was not signed with the intention of playing as the #3 defenceman on a team that was trying to contend, they are completely different types of contracts.

 

[Goalfield13]

On the prospect board, it was stated that Smith takes draws and then plays wing. If this is true, I can see him being a good match with Dach at C. Then, we could round out that line with a forechecker like Heinemann or a two-way player like Roy. If Smith is available at 5, you take him. I didn't think this was possible a few weeks back. Sure, Leonard's mix of will and skill is great, but we have enougn will players on this team to play that role. Smith's skill is needed.

Slaf-Suzy-Cole
Roy/Hein-Dach-Smith

 

[Destopcorner]

Markov has nothing to do with it. They could've easily had both Markov and Alzner.

He had everything to do with it, Alzner took his #1 LHD spot even after admitting he couldn't open pickle jars anymore. Markov was 10 games away from 1000, had no intention signing anywhere else and our GM dared to say: If you want loyalty, buy a dog.

Insanity.

 

[the valiant effort]

Bergevin's reign:

23rd best goals per game
T-29th best PP%

It's incredible what winning "all but one trade" over a nine year span can do for a team!

 

[ZUKI]

As I mentioned , for me, there are 10 or so superstars in the league. Where you draw the line between star and superstar is up to each person but I don’t think a league can have 30 superstars. So for me, the 10 in superstar category are : McDavid, Draisilt, Mackinnon, Makar, Matthews, Kucherov, Tkachuk, Pastrnak, Crosby, Ovechkin….like that’s pretty much the list. I think Robertson is in the next tier with Marner, Point, Stamkos, Rantanen, etc.

I don't see Sergachev on your list ???? i've read for years that he's a superstar dman that will win at least 10 Norris

 

[Runner77]

Sorry for another response but this is just completely false. Alzner was transparently signed to be a long-term top 4 fixture with Weber or Petry. He was paid top 4 money, got 5 years, was talked about as a potential partner for Petry, and was given a whole season in that role. The hope when they signed him is that he would play 22 minutes a night next to Petry and form part of a really strong top 4 pairing that would play a big role for a team that was trying to contend.

Savard was given 4x3.5M to be a #4-5 and a decent veteran plug because we had nobody else on the right side who could kill penalties or play stay at home D. Savard was not signed with the intention of playing as the #3 defenceman on a team that was trying to contend, they are completely different types of contracts.

Where’s that thread that posited that Alzner would be Petry’s best partner ever?

Good times.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

He had everything to do with it, Alzner took his #1 LHD spot even after admitting he couldn't open pickle jars anymore. Markov was 10 games away from 1000, had no intention signing anywhere else and our GM dared to say: If you want loyalty, buy a dog.

Insanity.

Alzner or not, the Markov situation would still happen.

Sorry for another response but this is just completely false. Alzner was transparently signed to be a long-term top 4 fixture with Weber or Petry. He was paid top 4 money, got 5 years, was talked about as a potential partner for Petry, and was given a whole season in that role. The hope when they signed him is that he would play 22 minutes a night next to Petry and form part of a really strong pairing.

Savard was given 4x3.5M to be a #4-5 and a decent veteran plug because we had nobody else on the right side who could kill penalties or play stay at home D. Savard was not signed with the intention of playing as the #3 defenceman on a team that was trying to contend.

Why does the role matter? Even if Alzner was given Savard's contract and was expected to be a 4-5, that would still look like an awful contract right now.

Savard was the 3rd most used dman on the habs in his first season and the 2nd most used dman in his 2nd season. He's essentially been playing the role that Alzner was supposed to do.

Alzner was overpaid, and that's a given when signing one of the top players available in free agency.

 

[Toene]

The bully from the bully pulpit.

Cantin got rightfully put to his place.

Nah, Bergevin was playing dumb here, we were forced to watch boring ass games with Carey standing on his head every night, dump da puck in da zone. He's the only one who had the balls to call them out about this, all the journalists were afraid to ask these types of questions.

Cantin isnt supposed to explain shit, it's the team that suck ass at hockey that supposed to be explaining stuff. We've all watched the games and saw the lame low-offense hockey. We were excited when we had a player over 0,5 ppg ffs.

 

[ZUKI]

Puuljarvi has tools. I think one lesson to take from Puljujarvi is that hockey sense is important. Ability to process the game quickly is important. Things are happening too fast for him, his brain can’t follow.

happy to learn that someone younger then me have the same problem

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Debate here should be Smith or Michkov at 5
Anything else people should be worried to skip on 1 or those 2 studs at #5.

But don't expect them to be in the NHL next season.

 

[ZUKI]

It’s all politics when it comes to getting jobs in the NHL. They’re all friends of a friend of a friend. I don’t even think Bergevin had a highschool degree but a sports organization worth billions of dollars was comfortable enough to have him in a role of authority over their product because he slummed it as a depth defensemen in the NHL as a player. When someone says “some people think they’re smarter then actual pro scouting teams” they aren’t saying a whole lot. I could sit on my couch and tell you Karl Alzner is finished or Jack Campbell is a bum, yet that makes it past an entire “team” of people. Let that sink.

i can't believe Pierre Gauthier had a friend

 

[JoelWarlord]

Why does the role matter?

Is this a serious question? Because they based the contract on Alzner's perceived role which necessarily meant that he earned so much it prevented us from going after any available alternatives who could have been much better players (or at least it would have, if Bergevin wasn't obsessively spending 8 million below the cap for years only to blow his load on Josh f***ing Anderson).

Perceiving bad players as much better than they are is like...the core fundamental issue that drives most overpayments in any sport. Perceiving Alzner as a 2nd pair stud when he was already cooked and then paying him as if he were still a good big minutes 2nd pair D is necessarily going to be a significantly more damaging contract than paying 3rd pair guys like 250k too much to be 3rd pair guys.

Even if Alzner was given Savard's contract and was expected to be a 4-5, that would still look like an awful contract right now.

Yes, it would. It wouldn't look like the worst Habs contract in decades though, which is what Alzner was. I don't get this counterfactual. You are telling me that even if they paid Alzner like a 3rd pair guy instead of a #3 the contract would still look bad, while somehow trying to defend the decision? What? The problem is they signed a guy that would be overpaid at Chiarot's 3x3.5M contract and gave him two additional years and like 35% more money!

Savard was the 3rd most used dman on the habs in his first season and the 2nd most used dman in his 2nd season. He's essentially been playing the role that Alzner was supposed to do.

Yeah and he's making less money, shoots right where we have a need, doesn't suck complete ass, and we're not trying to compete right now so the fact Savard isn't a particularly good #2 or #3D isn't a problem. That's why Alzner was one of the worst Habs contracts ever and Savard is a fine enough vet contract. Alzner wasn't even capable of being a veteran mentor on the 3rd pair!

Again I don't really get what you're arguing here, Alzner made way more money than Savard and sucked ass, while Savard is still a capable NHLer who underperformed in year 1 but overperformed in year 2. "Alzner could have maybe not sucked ass in some universe where he didn't suck total ass" is not a defence of paying so much money to a guy who sucked total ass!

Alzner was overpaid, and that's a given when signing one of the top players available in free agency.

So what are you even arguing? Bergevin overpaid a washed-up 29 year old stay at home dman with poor skating and a mediocre physical game. It was a horrifically bad contract from day 1. You're discussing this as if signing UFAs is just roulette and not a market where teams pay for specific players at specific prices for specific reasons. Alzner was not "a top UFA who unexpectedly fell off", he was already washed up and there was no reason to invest in him at all.

This is mega off topic at this point so I'll move on but man I do not understand how there are Karl Alzner revisionists. I vividly remember having a sense of impending dread when I saw his name in the preceding January when they did a UFA preview during the intermission of a Habs game. It was the most easily foreseeable albatross contract the Habs have signed in my lifetime.

 

[BLONG7]

Just when we think we have seen it all, and it is time to move on.......................someone posts Bergevin was right to sign Karl Alzner.............LOL.

Man, this place......

Pretty sure trolls love the habs board....

 

[Runner77]

Nah, Bergevin was playing dumb here, we were forced to watch boring ass games with Carey standing on his head every night, dump da puck in da zone. He's the only one who had the balls to call them out about this, all the journalists were afraid to ask these types of questions.

Cantin isnt supposed to explain shit, it's the team that suck ass at hockey that supposed to be explaining stuff. We've all watched the games and saw the lame low-offense hockey. We were excited when we had a player over 0,5 ppg ffs.

Nah, Cantin folded like the cheap suit that he is. Don’t get into a discussion with a GM by calling him out and comparing him to what other teams are supposedly doing when you can’t back up that statement. He just didn’t know what he was talking about. And as much as I’m not a Bergevin fan, Cantin got served — for once someone put him in his place.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Debate here should be Smith or Michkov at 5
Anything else people should be worried to skip on 1 or those 2 studs at #5.

But don't expect them to be in the NHL next season.

Hugo is in a good situation and its easy. You select whoever remains from Carlsson/Smith/Michkov. You can't go wrong.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Is this a serious question? Because they based the contract on Alzner's perceived role which necessarily meant that he earned so much it prevented us from going after any available alternatives who could have been much better players (or at least it would have, if Bergevin wasn't obsessively spending 8 million below the cap for years only to blow his load on Josh f***ing Anderson).

Alzner having a bigger or smaller contract has nothing to do with what I was discussing with the other posters. The discussion is about getting Alzner period.

Alzner was seen as the 2nd best dman available, so no there weren't better looking alternatives in free agency.

So what are you even arguing? Bergevin overpaid a washed up 29 year old stay at home dman with poor skating and a mediocre physical game. It was a horrifically bad contract from day 1.

I'm arguing there was a rationale behind signing Alzner. It wasn't a decision that made zero sense at that time like you and the other posters are claiming.

There's a reason why so many teams were interested in Alzner

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

He's my prediction for the draft

1. Bedard
2. Michkov
3. Smith
4. Carlsson
5. Fantilli

ok ok i'll show myself out ...

...if we end up with Fantilli, I'll eat me freakin' Galchenyuk Camo jersey...in happineess...

 

[NewEraGM]

Hopefully something crazy happens at this draft like last years top 5. That was an insane 30 minutes of hockey news. Juraj goes 1, Wright falls, Dach trade ….madness!

 

[jrom]

...if we end up with Fantilli, I'll eat me freakin' Galchenyuk Camo jersey...in happineess...

Fantilli or Carlsson would be peachy, almost too good to be true.

I recently learned that Carlsson is a stutterer, here’s to hoping CBJ prefers a marketable American kid like Will Smith and we’re lucky enough to get the awkward sounding Euro.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Hopefully something crazy happens at this draft like last years top 5. That was an insane 30 minutes of hockey news. Juraj goes 1, Wright falls, Dach trade ….madness!

Smith goes 3rd, Carlsson goes 4th, Michkov goes to Montreal, and shortly after Dubois to Montreal trade is announced

 

[WG]

Is this a serious question? Because they based the contract on Alzner's perceived role which necessarily meant that he earned so much it prevented us from going after any available alternatives who could have been much better players (or at least it would have, if Bergevin wasn't obsessively spending 8 million below the cap for years only to blow his load on Josh f***ing Anderson).

Perceiving bad players as much better than they are is like...the core fundamental issue that drives most overpayments in any sport. Perceiving Alzner as a 2nd pair stud when he was already cooked and then paying him as if he were still a good big minutes 2nd pair D is necessarily going to be a significantly more damaging contract than paying 3rd pair guys like 250k too much to be 3rd pair guys.

Yes, it would. It wouldn't look like the worst Habs contract in decades though, which is what Alzner was. I don't get this counterfactual. You are telling me that even if they paid Alzner like a 3rd pair guy instead of a #3 the contract would still look bad, while somehow trying to defend the decision? What? The problem is they signed a guy that would be overpaid at Chiarot's 3x3.5M contract and gave him two additional years and like 35% more money!

Yeah and he's making less money, shoots right where we have a need, doesn't suck complete ass, and we're not trying to compete right now so the fact Savard isn't a particularly good #2 or #3D isn't a problem. That's why Alzner was one of the worst Habs contracts ever and Savard is a fine enough vet contract. Alzner wasn't even capable of being a veteran mentor on the 3rd pair!

Again I don't really get what you're arguing here, Alzner made way more money than Savard and sucked ass, while Savard is still a capable NHLer who underperformed in year 1 but overperformed in year 2. "Alzner could have maybe not sucked ass in some universe where he didn't suck total ass" is not a defence of paying so much money to a guy who sucked total ass!

So what are you even arguing? Bergevin overpaid a washed-up 29 year old stay at home dman with poor skating and a mediocre physical game. It was a horrifically bad contract from day 1. You're discussing this as if signing UFAs is just roulette and not a market where teams pay for specific players at specific prices for specific reasons. Alzner was not "a top UFA who unexpectedly fell off", he was already washed up and there was no reason to invest in him at all.

This is mega off topic at this point so I'll move on but man I do not understand how there are Karl Alzner revisionists. I vividly remember having a sense of impending dread when I saw his name in the preceding January when they did a UFA preview during the intermission of a Habs game. It was the most easily foreseeable albatross contract the Habs have signed in my lifetime.

All true about Alzner. But the Gallagher contract may ultimately turn out to match Alzner in the 'foreseeable albatross' sweepstakes.