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GDT: Canadian Soccer | Canada at the Copa America - July 9 vs Argentina in the SF

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AM

AM

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Nov 22, 2004
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Bryanbryoil said:
Cool. Futsal has basically shut down here during covid but thankfully the outdoor seasons have gone on after a disruption early on in the pandemic.
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Eiysa plays futsal, emsa plays the boards, so there’s a mixture. There are pluses and minuses for both. Constant kick ins versus game integrity. The boards can release the creativity of the best passers, on occasion.
 
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AM

AM

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Gopper said:
I don't blame him at all. The women's side was stalled and there weren't a lot of good young players coming in when he left.

It doesn't change the fact that Bev Priestman was able to get more out of virtually the same group of players that John Herdman determined weren't good enough. Bev Priestman did a great job coaching them and Canada saw a number of players show a lot of improvement with her coaching. Bev didn't have the luxury of coaching Sinclair in her prime, who was the best player in the world.

Vitoria was always on Canada's radar. He chose not to commit. He still was capped before Herdman came on the scene. Same with Cyle Larin. Same with Davies. Same with Jonathan David. The pieces were there.

Herdman did recruit Eustáquio and Scott Kennedy. He certainly deserves credit in the recruitment department. If he can get Marcelo Flores, he will be God tier to me. That would be unbelievable.
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We need defence more than forwards.
 
Drivesaitl

Drivesaitl

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Zenos said:
Some of the more informed posters can correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe Herdman is under contract until after the 2026 World Cup (in North America). So it looks like our boys have at least two WC appearances with him at the helm left ;)
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in present day I'm not convinced the ink on the contracts matter. I mean if Herdman gets a big offer for big coin somewhere, or a speculative option, is Canada going to play hard and fast with him and force him to stay for less money and opportunity? This doesn't happen now with top tier managers and coaches in the sporting world. Touted, vaunted guys end going where they want, and when they want. If Canada forced honoring of contract its not viewed as attractive for the next candidate. I'm not saying I accept this or think its the way it should be. More that a quantum shift seems to have occurred.
 

oilers'72

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Drivesaitl said:
in present day I'm not convinced the ink on the contracts matter. I mean if Herdman gets a big offer for big coin somewhere, or a speculative option, is Canada going to play hard and fast with him and force him to stay for less money and opportunity? This doesn't happen now with top tier managers and coaches in the sporting world. Touted, vaunted guys end going where they want, and when they want. If Canada forced honoring of contract its not viewed as attractive for the next candidate. I'm not saying I accept this or think its the way it should be. More that a quantum shift seems to have occurred.
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I believe Herdman will be with the squad to 2026. The top players will be in their prime 4 years from now. Plus, if Canada makes it to the round of 16 or quarter-finals, I'm pretty sure he'll want a chance at that bite of the apple. Leaving before then would take away a chance of a legacy and a chance to really show the football world that he can build and guide a team to greater things.
 
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oilers'72

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I guess the seeding criteria is a little bit more involved than just rankings.

"In the group stage, teams compete within eight groups of four teams each. Eight teams are seeded, including the hosts, with the other seeded teams selected using a formula based on the FIFA World Rankings or performances in recent World Cups, and drawn to separate groups.[67] The other teams are assigned to different "pots", usually based on geographical criteria, and teams in each pot are drawn at random to the eight groups. Since 1998, constraints have been applied to the draw to ensure that no group contains more than two European teams or more than one team from any other confederation.[68]"

FIFA World Cup - Wikipedia
 
Drivesaitl

Drivesaitl

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oilers'72 said:
I believe Herdman will be with the squad to 2026. The top players will be in their prime 4 years from now. Plus, if Canada makes it to the round of 16 or quarter-finals, I'm pretty sure he'll want a chance at that bite of the apple. Leaving before then would take away a chance of a legacy and a chance to really show the football world that he can build and guide a team to greater things.
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If this was a quarter century ago I would agree with you. The WC lustre isn't quite what it once was. I mean coaches would probably prefer the premiership and pay over these gigs. I love the WC. But in the Soccer world for decades now people saying the leagues are the thing and that WC play is slower, less good, etc. Then theres just the massive controversy in present day being WC coaches and you just end up signing up for a lot more than you bargained for, and for most of these guys, nightmares. In WC one team gets the glory, all the other coaches and teams answer to recriminations, criticism, calls for firing or far worse. I mean respect to anybody that does it still but increasingly these are bad toxic gigs and coaches are probably better off in some top league.

Its a shame, but its the world we're living in now.

Its a great run for Herdman now, and lots of fun, not much expectations. A 2026 WC on home soil vastly changes that and just like the Womens team things became decidedly less fun when expectation arrive. Movements change quickly in the Soccer world. 2014 elation for Germany. 2018 and its all in ruin. Even for top nations, its how it goes in WC. So I've learned not to count any eggs. How many WC coaches even do consecutive WC's these days?
 
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oilers'72

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Drivesaitl said:
If this was a quarter century ago I would agree with you. The WC lustre isn't quite what it once was. I mean coaches would probably prefer the premiership and pay over these gigs. I love the WC. But in the Soccer world for decades now people saying the leagues are the thing and that WC play is slower, less good, etc. Then theres just the massive controversy in present day being WC coaches and you just end up signing up for a lot more than you bargained for, and for most of these guys, nightmares. In WC one team gets the glory, all the other coaches and teams answer to recriminations, criticism, calls for firing or far worse. I mean respect to anybody that does it still but increasingly these are bad toxic gigs and coaches are probably better off in some top league.

Its a great run for Herdman now, and lots of fun, not much expectations. A 2026 WC on home soil vastly changes that and just like the Womens team things became decidedly less fun when expectation arrive. Movements change quickly in the Soccer world. 2014 elation for Germany. 2018 and its all in ruin. Even for top nations, its how it goes in WC. So I've learned not to count any eggs. How many WC coaches even do consecutive WC's these days?
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I can't say how many, or if there are any now, that coached in 2 or more WCs. I've heard of managers being kicked to the curb after a run of poor results or even just one bad result. Plus, some federations have higher-ups that played and/or managed their national team and figure their squad is somehow better than they actually are.

I've heard of the corruption within Soccer Canada. Whether it still exists, I can't say, as I haven't heard it mentioned in a long time. But, I believe that SC wants to grow the sport in Canada to develop talent and not just as an activity. Kids respond to success on the field and, with the men's and women's sides having success, I don't think they'll give Herdman the shaft.
 
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Yukon Joe

Yukon Joe

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I'm not a big soccer fan, but been following the MNT during this qualifications run fairly closely. And really tough to say if Herdman would get an offer at a top European league job.

He's had a very unconventional career so far. He started out as an academy coach for Sunderland which is a team that has bounced in and out of the EPL. He left England in 2001 to move to New Zealand where he eventually became head coach of the women's national team, then took the same job in Canada in 2011, before switching over to the men in 2018.

That is not at all the career path of a typical EPL coach. I even found a quote from Herdman talking about English football.

Speaking from his home in Vancouver, looking out over the border with the United States, Herdman admits it was frustrated ambition that drove him to leave English football behind.

"Opportunities were few and far between in England. It was a sarcastic culture. It was made clear that you had not played at the level so you were not really going to progress.

"There were great coaches in the academy at Sunderland who were never given that chance to move to the next level. I could sense there was a ceiling and I could see opportunities closing in the profession that I wanted to stay in. I had a desire to prove people wrong."
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Canada set to qualify for the 2022 World Cup? John Herdman explains how team and country has united

So with that unconventional career, would taking a former-sad-sack country like Canada and just making the World Cup (and let's be real here, just making it is accomplishment enough, we're unlikely to make it out of the group round) be enough for someone to offer him a lucrative job? Being offered a job in the second or third tier English leagues is not necessarily an improvement over being Canada's national coach.

I'm pretty sure the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, are just as conservative in their mindset as the EPL is.


As I think about it, Herdman is kind of the Euro equivalent to Ralph Kreuger. A Canadian kid who made a name for himself coaching overseas. Now Kreuger did get two NHL head coaching jobs, but neither were exactly plum jobs and he didn't last long at either, despite being given very little to work with in terms of players...
 
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Cloned

Cloned

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Aug 25, 2003
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One thing you start to get when you’re the favourite in the group: favourable officiating.

Or at least you don’t get shafted as much by it.
 
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