Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Gil Gunderson]

And how many CHL(non WJHC) players attended said event and could be thrown into the mix of potential perpetrators? I heard "many." Maybe one of the many experts here could answer this.

There have been photos from the event (posted by players and the bar itself) that have been taken down. I don’t think any non-WJC players have been identified.

 

[I am toxic]

Hey dude, your like the 10th person to post the same argument. Its a hockey forum, we talk about hockey on a hockey forum.

Just to make sure, a hockey forum. thanks hope it helps.

Let's not pretend to be naive.

Yeah, it's a hockey forum, but hockey has elements (fame, wealth, old boys club, code of silence etc) that magnify this cultural problem to a far greater extent than society at large. The National Lawn Bowlers Association* is not constantly putting out fires about members involved in rapes.

No, there is a reason this same bullshit talking point gets brought up over and over again - to protect the culture of rape-enabling.

Here is Renney, to the Commitee:

We acknowledge that issues of maltreatment, including bullying, harassment, racism, homophobia and sexual abuse, exist in hockey as they do in other sports and in our society.

Thankfully Larouche swatted that bullshit down:

Mr. Renney, you said in your opening remarks that there had been assault cases as there are elsewhere in society. Don't such remarks contribute to a form of trivialization of assault cases? Doesn't that have the effect of discouraging certain victims from reporting that form of trivialization?

Bingo. This is not new. This is not news. When someone attempts to falsely equate the toxic culture in hockey to the problems we have in society in general, they are not adding to the conversation - they are consciously deflecting and trivializing assault cases and creating the effect of discouraging victims from reporting.

Am I surprised? No. Dissappointed, of course. But surprised? Absolutely not.


* I know, I know, it's Bowls Canada - all you lawn bowlers can stop cancelling me now, you savages

 

[Johnny Canucker]

People have way too much faith in the statements coming out. Most of them mean f*** all.

This is proven by the fact that there are 8 accusers and by deduction of statements released it only leaves 7 players without statements absolving themselves. Someone is lying.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

This is proven by the fact that there are 8 accusers and by deduction of statements released it only leaves 7 players without statements absolving themselves. Someone is lying.

 

[Tragedy]

This is proven by the fact that there are 8 accusers and by deduction of statements released it only leaves 7 players without statements absolving themselves. Someone is lying.

Not necessarily. Doesn't the initial statement released say 8 CHL players some of which were on the WJC team?

 

[dukeofjive]

meh

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Not necessarily. Doesn't the initial statement released say 8 CHL players some of which were on the WJC team?

Yeah makes one wonder why HC paid all the $ or will we find out next the CHL also paid out too

 

[catnip]

Some people in this thread conflate concepts such as "innocence" and "cleared of any wrongdoing" in a way that seems purposefully disingenuous.

 

[Dicky113]

To see the difference between the different statements one needs to look no further than several players (Kyrou etc) issuing a stronger denial after the initial "cleared of wrongdoing" umbrella statement was issued for a group of them. There is a reason they wanted to distance themselves from that kind of statement.

That said, that group statement is a side mess in itself. It's clearly an attempt at a shell game to hide the name(s) of the player(s) involved in a larger group. The statement was issued by a lawyer almost certainly representing one of the players involved on behalf of the group "in consultation" with the lawyers for other players. Are the other lawyers totally incompetent to allow their clients to be used in such a way? Some foul smelling lawyering here.

Agree 100%. Feels to me that maybe 1 or 2 of that “group” have something to hide and their lawyer is trying to hide them by sending that obscure message. Totally agree with your read. Between the lines, I would be worried if I were Katchouk, Dube, Formenton, Batherson, steenberger, McLeod and maybe one or two of the six covered in that blanket statement

 

[ps241]

Every person should know the first phrase is always, I'm not saying anything until an attorney is present. Atleast for anything that is criminal. You obviously can't do that on a traffic ticket without looking like a moron.

100%.

I Couldn’t agree with the bolded more.

 

[Zippity]

Yeah makes one wonder why HC paid all the $ or will we find out next the CHL also paid out too

And NHL, several other rapes have been reported that will most likely get out

 

[Reality Czech]

No, it's not really clear. All 8 could be from the WJC team, or it could just be a couple. That's why the player statements- and increasingly, the lack there of- have been such a focal point. If all but one player categorically denied ever being in that hotel room, you'd have your answer as to how many are involved. We are currently above that number.

This is why anyone who's making a list of WC players and crossing them off as they release statements is wrong and misleading. People shouldn't be speculating about the identities of the players unless they have all the facts, which I'm pretty sure none of us have.

 

[Zippity]

This is why anyone who's making a list of WC players and crossing them off as they release statements is wrong and misleading. People shouldn't be speculating about the identities of the players unless they have all the fact, which I'm pretty sure none of us have.

According to HC they don’t even know the identities.

 

[Reality Czech]

According to HC they don’t even know the identities.

Fair enough, but many people have simply assumed that all 8 were from the WC team which may not be true at all. Bad things can happen when people start making assumptions based on questionable or incomplete information.

 

[Zippity]

Fair enough, but many people have simply assumed that all 8 were from the WC team which may not be true at all. Bad things can happen when people start making assumptions based on questionable or incomplete information.

Transparency. And HC is looking like they tried to hide a lot of information.
If any of the kids were NHL bound , did the NHL help with some guidance?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Transparency. And HC is looking like they tried to hide a lot of information.
If any of the kids were NHL bound , did the NHL help with some guidance?

Of course Hockey Canada tried to suppress a lot of details of this situation. Why wouldn't they? No doubt that's why a settlement was offered (and accepted). It's an embarrassment all the way around which most parties involved hoped would go away. That's not how the story is ultimately playing out though, much to the chagrin of these same parties.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Weren’t there reportedly two 1999-borns involved? There were three on the WJC team and two have completely denied involvement. Either somebody is lying or there was at least one non-WJC player involved.

 

[BondraTime]

Weren’t there reportedly two 1999-borns involved? There were three on the WJC team and two have completely denied imvolvement. Either somebody is lying or there was at least one non-WJC player involved.

There was definitely non-WJC player(s) involved, that's been known since the start

 

[Buffdog]

Late to the thread but I've been following the story loosely in the Canadian press

Has there been any proof of a sexual assault beyond the statement of the alleged victim?

This is a tough subject. I have two teenage daughters and if they came to me with this I'd have to believe them. I'd take the issue to the police (like they did here).

At the same time, I also have a teenage son. If someone made accusations against him and he maintained his innocence, I'd want to see proof and I'd let the criminal justice system do it's work. That's what it's there for.

I realize I'll be labeled a woman hater or misogynist by some of you for saying this, and that's ok (none of you actually know me so your opinions mean jack shit yo me). At the end of the day, I'm old enough to remember the Duke lacrosse team. Let law enforcement do their job

 

[Schooner Guy]

Weren’t there reportedly two 1999-borns involved? There were three on the WJC team and two have completely denied involvement. Either somebody is lying or there was at least one non-WJC player involved.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I realize I'll be labeled a woman hater or misogynist by some of you for saying this, and that's ok (none of you actually know me so your opinions mean jack shit yo me). At the end of the day, I'm old enough to remember the Duke lacrosse team. Let law enforcement do their job

Hockey Canada being so quick to pay out a settlement probably makes this a bit different. Also those described videos don’t help.

 

[wetcoast]

And how many CHL(non WJHC) players attended said event and could be thrown into the mix of potential perpetrators? I heard "many." Maybe one of the many experts here could answer this.

Sorry but this doesn't fit the witch hunt narrative and the whole thing has become the public nightmare disaster that both HC and the victim were trying to avoid by settling.

No doubt some positive things will come of this situation (one would hope) but it's also involving a lot of ugliness and non rational mob mentality as well.

 

[Devils090]

This is dumb and does not mean anything, so you have like 50 cases in the last 40 years, I'm pretty sure you can do the same list with any profession that exists, not to mention a lot of the guys on the list have been either found innocent / or gossip without any proof. Like why the hell is Guy Lafleur on this list.

I work in a hospital let's make a list of all the doctors/nurses that have been accused of sexual or violent misconduct over the last 10 years only, trust me, the list will be longer than this one. A few rotten apples do not mean there is a cultural problem with hockey.

Thank you

 

[Rec T]

Me, when I am informed of a heinous crime like gang rape, my first reaction would be to go to the police.

Without a lawyer at your side? Have fun in prison (even if you're totally innocent)

If the police want to talk to you about 'anything' criminal, especially something as serious as a gang rape, you don't say a single word until your lawyer is there with you. While it would be nice if they get the guilty party, from the police perspective, the goal is to charge 'someone' and get the case closed. If they're looking seriously at you, without solid evidence on your side, you're not talking yourself out of a charge. But without someone there who knows that system (lawyer), you certainly very easily could talk yourself into one.

 

[Stylizer1]

What happened to her sucks but she is not 100% innocent in this either. She met a guy at a party decided to go home with him and sleep with him. To what point she was comfortable at the time with what came next nobody knows. She regretted what happened after but that doesn't mean she wasn't a willing partner. If she gave the impression she was ok with it then the people involved shouldn't be on trial. At no point has it ever been stated that she was against any of it or that they forced her. This seems like more of an optics thing that angered the mother as it should to any parent.

Everyone deserves justice but you can't make a poor decision and then go back in time and insert your fellings after the fact.