Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Dust]

Why do you say that? reality is the perpetrators will be charged and we will move on, what is it you want? what constitutes an intelligent response? Does a poster have to give some thoughts and prayers bs virtue signal to be considered intelligent?

The fact that some players do not want to play in Canada has little to nothing to do with this thread, or our government. That's why it's not an intelligent post.

 

[Tyrus]

You do realize that even if criminal charges are pursued by the victim and endorsed by Hockey Canada it doesn't prevent the victim from also suing Hockey Canada right?

Civil and criminal cases are two different things with two very different outcomes.

Even if the victim gets justice through the criminal system the victim still may want monetary compensation as well. So is Hockey Canada not supposed to have the means to provide it?

You don't seem to have an idea of how the court system works. If Hockey Canada is served they have no choice but to defend themselves in civil court or settle out of court. None of that prevents them from also supporting the victim if they elect to pursue criminal charges.

I've answered those two things in another comment, feel free to read them I suppose.

 

[DeeQ]

ok gold star for your virtue signal
moving on....you don't think players not wanting to play here is an issue that may fundamentally undermine the future of hockey in Canada?

How do players leaving Canadian teams have anything to do with this incident?

 

[Quinning]

That is true, but I just don't think that should be the thing that stops people from doing shitty things.

Think of it this way, a hypothetical:

I think it's bullshit that grocery stores are profiteering off supply chain issues.

I feel justified in stealing some groceries this time through.

I am also aware of the consequences of stealing the groceries because it's common knowledge.

Therefore, I am going to pay for the groceries even though I feel justified in stealing them, because I do not want to suffer the consequences of stealing the groceries.

Even though I technically know that stealing the groceries is wrong (because stealing is considered immoral) it's not the fact that it's wrong that's stopping me from doing it.

Obviously this is a very simply example that does not match the severity of what we're discussing here, but the point stands. These kids knew what they were doing was wrong, it's common knowledge and they chose not to care because they either were not aware of the consequences of their actions or they were aware and disregarded them.

Judging by that text exchange, it seems likely to be the latter.

 

[Edgelord]

- This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Canadian teams' ability to retain players. Maybe that conversation would be appropriate in a Gaudreau thread? This thread is about a possible sexual assault and Hockey Canada's involvement in it...not about Canadian teams' retention rate, and not about Justin Trudeau. Yet you pop in here and somehow instantaneously make it about that.
- This thread also has nothing to do with the Maple Leafs or Auston Matthews. You again, of course, manage to make it instantly about them.
- Goodness knows there is a laundry list of things to dislike about Trudeau, but clearly you do not have the faintest clue what Communism is.
- You've managed to make this conversation so thoroughly about your uninformed politics that all of these posts are probably gonna get removed.

gonna go start a thread to discuss that issue separately from this 1

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

London, Ont. police announce internal review of 2018 investigation | TSN

London, Ont. police announced Wednesday that an internal review into the handling of the force's completed investigation into the 2018 alleged sexual assault involving eight Canadian Hockey League players will begin "immediately."

www.tsn.ca

I guess this is the larger story for me. Did the police do their due diligence.

I understand payouts happen and that Hockey Canada seemed to push this through rather quickly, but are the police who are supposed to be protecting and serving us do their job properly here?

And who from the London Police tipped off John Doe 1 about the complaint so that he started texting the woman to change her story

 

[Edgelord]

How do players leaving Canadian teams have anything to do with this incident?

sorry you are right

 

[lomiller1]

While I disagree with the premise that HC should be monetarily responsible for the non-work related actions of its employees, I'd be willing to consider this if all complaints were brought to law enforcement for serious investigation.

You may disagree with it, but that doesn't mean HC isn't civilly liable for the actions of it's players.

I'd be willing to consider this if all complaints were brought to law enforcement for serious investigation.

That should really be up to the victim. These cases can be a traumatic experience for a victim, one they may not want to go though.

 

[surixon]

I've answered those two things in another comment, feel free to read them I suppose.

Well we'd all like things to be different but right now companies and individuals can only deal with the system as it is.

 

[ponder]

Formenton, Batherson, Comtois, McLeod and Steenbergen all being silent so far, while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement is ... suspicious, to say the least. We know the accusation is that 8 CHLers gang raped a girl, and many but not all of them were on the Canada's 2018 WJC squad, some/all of those 5 being among the 8 players seems pretty likely.

Edit: should have phrased that "while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement and/or wrongdoing", as most have explicitly denied involvement, while some have denied wrongdoing. Still, I think the "no comments" are more suspicious than the "denied wrongdoing".

 

[DaveMatthew]

Formenton, Batherson, Comtois, McLeod and Steenbergen all being silent so far, while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement is ... suspicious, to say the least. We know the accusation is that 8 CHLers gang raped a girl, and many but not all of them were on the Canada's 2018 WJC squad, some/all of those 5 being among the 8 players seems pretty likely.

Several players have denied wrongdoing, not involvement. There’s a big difference in the statements. It feels like people aren’t even reading them.

 

[Quinning]

Formenton, Batherson, Comtois, McLeod and Steenbergen all being silent so far, while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement is ... suspicious, to say the least. We know the accusation is that 8 CHLers gang raped a girl, and many but not all of them were on the Canada's 2018 WJC squad, some/all of those 5 being among the 8 players seems pretty likely.

Were they all in the "pregaming with the boys" pic that was posted on Instagram that evening?

 

[PostBradMalone]

Formenton, Batherson, Comtois, McLeod and Steenbergen all being silent so far, while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement is ... suspicious, to say the least. We know the accusation is that 8 CHLers gang raped a girl, and many but not all of them were on the Canada's 2018 WJC squad, some/all of those 5 being among the 8 players seems pretty likely.

TBF Steenbergen issued a literal no comment per Global:

"Rick Valette with Octagon Hockey said he could not comment, citing the ongoing investigation."

Whether that's better or worse is up for interpretation.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Frivolous civil litigation gets tossed out all the time. Companies are not in the habit of settling with anybody who can muster up the paperwork to file a claim, it creates a bad messaging that they are open season for anyone that can remotely string a couple of fake allegations out there. This is the type of thing you deny with all ferocity and commit yourself to fighting if you do not believe it is true. This isn't a question of whether proper performance was delivered under a servicing contract when a customer doesn't pay.

That's just not how it works. If they deemed that the allegation could be publicly damaging and might not get tossed quickly there's a settlement. Guilt or innocence doesn't matter. Denials in the age of social media are useless.

Works the same way in the criminal justice system. It's all a cost-benefit analysis.

 

[ponder]

Several players have denied wrongdoing, not involvement. There’s a big difference in the statements. It feels like people aren’t even reading them.

They've all explicitly denied involvement, except the 6 who are represented by the same agency (Wasserman Hockey), where the agency issued this joint statement (source):

Regarding questions about six players on the 2018 roster put to sports agency Wasserman Hockey, Global News received a statement from Scott Fenton, a criminal defence lawyer based in Toronto.

“We act for one of the players referenced in your email inquiry and have consulted with counsel for the other players you reference. All of Global News’ questions will be asked and answered during the pending NHL investigation. That said, none of the players you reference engaged in any wrongdoing, all of the players cooperated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, and all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing,” Fenton wrote.

“Naming any of these players now, or attempting to associate any of them in any way with alleged criminal wrongdoing, or alleging that they were not cooperative with the London Police or willing to cooperate with Hockey Canada, will constitute materially false statements constituting defamation causing serious financial and reputational harm.”

I agree that it's less strong than the clear denials of involvement offered by other players, I probably should have phrased that "denied involvement and/or wrongdoing", not "denied involvement". However, that statement is still much more of a denial than we've seen from Formenton, Batherson, Comtois, McLeod and Steenbergen, who've all been completely silent, despite tonnes of ppl reaching out to them for comments/statements. It's possible some of the Wasseman 6 were involved, but I'd say the 5 who've been silent are the most suspicious at the moment.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

If you think casual group sex where alcohol is abused isn't a frequent part of society I'd suggest you go have a look at Feeld or any swingers party near you.

Funny enough, those things tend to happen more frequently when inhibitions are subdued.

So until further proof is presented that the act wasn't consentual, which would make it a gang rape rather than a gang bang, I don't see a point in defending or admonishing either party.

I do agree that while gang bangs, in their consentual nature, aren't wrong, it is a rather stupid idea to take part in one as a potential pro athlete.

My daughter identifies as a polyamorous bi-sexual, I have friends that are swingers (not my thing but fill your boots) and my user name is a Vegas strip joint so I'm well aware of what is part of society these days.

There's a difference between inhibitions subdued, i.e. liquid courage to do things you want to do but can't do sober, and too drunk to be able to give legal consent. Will see where this one lands

 

[Paper]

Well, don't look now, but the civil case was settled out of court.
The only thing left is a criminal complaint.

Hockey Canada and the NHL are handling the criminal complaint with their investigations? Hmm good to know.

 

[Slurpeelover27]

I don't think any millenials actually know what communism is in action because they weren't around to witness the Soviet Union collapse in 1991.

It might be helpful to ask Ukrainian refugees what they think of communism.

I am quite sure that significantly more than 90% of the population does not know what communism really means.

 

[I am toxic]

Until you said this, I was probably the one person here who knew what the hell you were talking about, on any level.

 

[Paper]

If my parents went to the police and made a claim that you punched me in the face, do you believe it just that your employer dismiss you? Should you be ostracized from the general public based solely on an accusation?

If you had a bloody face when you told your parents. Then later sued my employer for me punching you, including a sworn affidavit signed by you that I punched you unprovoked and unwantedly. And then I claimed I punched you in the face but you asked me to. Yeah, probably a lot of people would start to think I punched you.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

There were, what, 8 guys with her and not one of them had the maturity, integrity and common sense to assess the situation and realize how messed up it was? In this instance, if what was alleged happened then the responsibility was on the guys, every single one of them.

Hence the repeated mantra that this is a hockey culture problem in that young men repeatedly feel they are entitled to have their way knowing full well the wealthy organization and people who enabled and protected them will continue to do so without any form of accountability or repercussions.
HC shields their stars creating a culture where this can and has continued to happen with impunity.

 

[Off Sides]

So after this happened, HC canceled the 2019 Gala and Golf thing? Or they took some steps to attempt to prevent it from happening again?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think it's completely fair. They want to assure no public funding went to the settlement.

The issue though is, if they're trying to get to the bottom of who the players were it seems neither the victim or lawyers ever identified the players, including in the lawsuit. The players were named as John Doe's - so unless the players themselves admit to it, I don't know how far an investigation can get unless she agrees to come forward with the names.

The names are out. If the innocent players were smart they would start naming names. Otherwise they are going to be painted with the same brush. Shame on these players for everything they've done.

 

[I am toxic]

So after this happened, HC canceled the 2019 Gala and Golf thing? Or they took some steps to attempt to prevent it from happening again?

No. Much better.

They added more funds to the hush money account. What is at now, $15m? No salary cap for hush money.

 

[PostBradMalone]

Formenton, Batherson, Comtois, McLeod and Steenbergen all being silent so far, while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement is ... suspicious, to say the least. We know the accusation is that 8 CHLers gang raped a girl, and many but not all of them were on the Canada's 2018 WJC squad, some/all of those 5 being among the 8 players seems pretty likely.

Edit: should have phrased that "while every other member of the team has made statements denying their involvement and/or wrongdoing", as most have explicitly denied involvement, while some have denied wrongdoing. Still, I think the "no comments" are more suspicious than the "denied wrongdoing".

I'm going to make a prediction that the five who have yet to say anything at all (Formenton, Batherson, Howden, Comtois, and McLeod) all drop their statements- be it "no comment"s or something a bit spicier AKA "They cooperated with the original investigation and were cleared of criminal wrongdoing"- late Friday, which is the end of the weekly news cycle and traditionally the best time to dump unfavorable press releases. The hope will be it's either forgotten over the weekend, or at the latest by the start of the Heritage Committee hearings on Tuesday.

Edit: Prediction BTFO, Howden earlier today which I missed and Comtois just minutes ago issued stern denials. We are down to three: Batherson, Formenton, and McLeod.