Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Dirty Dog]

They all sound the same because there’s only so many ways to say the very limited and narrow message they want to get across. If I asked 5 of you to write a narrow message saying you did nothing wrong, you will cooperate, and there won’t be any further statements…you’d all come up with something similar on your own

I do find the ones helpful that state “I literally was nowhere near this!”

 

[Quinning]

Because agents and lawyers got involved and fashioned them. A group of players had the same agent and the agent fashioned a blanket statement for all of them.

I guess it saves them on legal fees?

It doesn't look good on them, even if it's what typically happens in a situation like this.

 

[Tyrus]

Why? To put the victim through the wringer again in a whole new way? Make them relive the trauma they went through? Have a team of lawyers try to discredit them for months, all while incurring legal fees that could surpass the settlement amount?

In many cases, a settlement is the desired outcome for the victim. And based on the victims lawyer's statement after the settlement in this case, the case was closed the way she wanted it to be closed.

Hockey Canada should be required to publicly disclose all settlements, but they shouldn't be forced to bring all cases to court.

Because my money will not be used to settle the actions of actual rapists and sexual offenders unless that settlement is in the form of prison time.

Allegations of such heinous crimes should be brought to the authorities, the criminal court (a process that could be helped by HC, since they wouldn't be the party accused) and then, if proven to be true beyond reasonable doubt, the accused should be punished to the full extent of the law. Money shouldn't be able to buy your way out of criminal charges, much less my money.

Publicly disclosing all settlements doesn't solve anything, a settlement isn't proof of guilt and in this scenario wouldn't be up to the accused person(s) but to HC, which is incredibly unfair to the accused party.

The alleged victims are free to pursue the outcome they wish to pursue, but unless that outcome is justice brought by the justice system then I do not wish to fund it with my money.

 

[I am toxic]

Would an Inception reference be overly trite at this point?

Never, bandy.

Good to see you stalking me here in the mains, after posting those falsehoods in the Virtanen thread.

I was getting worried about you.

 

[TheBeard]

This comes back to my earlier post about a lack of education around criminal, ethical, moral and fiscal responsibilities for young pro athletes.

This transcends athletes and it's beyond just lack of education. You can be the dumbest person in the room and still know the difference between consent and force.

 

[Quinning]

This transcends athletes and it's beyond just lack of education. You can be the dumbest person in the room and still know the difference between consent and force.

At a higher level, I agree with you.

It's knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Knowing that actions have consequences. It's the first thing you should learn in life.

 

[Tyrus]

How should they pay for lawsuits in the future then?

Even if they have the best policies/pracrice in place that still doesn't preclude future incidents and doesn't preclude themselves being the subject of a lawsuit. One way or another whether through settlement or a lengthy expensive court case they require funding. That money has to come from somewhere. There is no such thing as a perfect system that will guarantee nothing happens in the future.

With regards to criminal charges, that is a other matter altogether and I'd expect there to be changes in how Hockey Canada handles that as well as dishes out punishment.

Of course funding will be required to pursue legal cases, that's what I want my money to be used for.

Legal cases in which guilt or innocence can be actually determined, and actual legal actions can be taken against those guilty.

What I don't want it to be used for are settlement payments meant to buy out the actions of potential rapists and sexual predators or, in much less likely scenarios, meant to pay out unsubstantiated or straight up false accusations.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Isn't this the roster?

Rosters

Rosters for the 2018 IIHF World Junior Championship in Buffalo, N.Y. at the Key Bank Center and HarborCenter. Get player details for Team Canada and other competing teams. Find names, heights, weights, birthdates, draft status, hometown and club teams, as well as player bios for all Canadian...

www.hockeycanada.ca

Poster told you not all were WJ, some or one were CHL players.
You post, Math doesn’t add up,
Posters repeat not all WJ
Then you post isn’t this the roster.

I don’t think there is any more help to be had.

 

[PostBradMalone]

They all sound the same because there’s only so many ways to say the very limited and narrow message they want to get across. If I asked 5 of you to write a narrow message saying you did nothing wrong, you will cooperate, and there won’t be any further statements…you’d all come up with something similar on your own

I do find the ones helpful that state “I literally was nowhere near this!”

These boilerplate statements are still helpful in that they establish the player(s) were not involved in what transpired at the hotel. Those who were cannot just lie, because the London Police Service interviewed all eight of them and so did the first law firm HC retained.

That's why the five who have yet to say anything at all are attracting greater scrutiny by the hour. When you have Point- who was not ever included in this by virtue of a Junior A player when it happened- commenting, and you still have the same handful maintaining radio silence... well, that potentially says a lot.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Because my money will not be used to settle the actions of actual rapists and sexual offenders unless that settlement is in the form of prison time.

Allegations of such heinous crimes should be brought to the authorities and then the criminal court (a process that could be helped by HC, since they wouldn't be the party accused) and, if proven to be true beyond reasonable doubt, the accused should be punished to the full extent of the law. Money shouldn't be able to buy your way out of criminal charges, much less my money.

Publicly disclosing all settlements doesn't solve anything, a settlement isn't proof of guilt and in this scenario wouldn't be up to the accused person(s) but to HC, which is incredibly unfair to the accused party.

The alleged victims are free to pursue the outcome they wish to pursue, but unless that outcome is justice brought by the justice system then I do not wish to fund it with my money.

Hockey Canada should absolutely bring all complaints to law enforcement.

But it would not get them out of paying settlements or damages in civil cases. And in civil cases, taking it to court would not result in anyone going to jail. It's not either/or when it comes to civil cases or criminal cases. It seems like you misunderstand how it works.

Even if all 8 players, in this case, had been charged and convicted criminally, the victim could have (and should have) still brought a civil case against Hockey Canada, and"your money" would have funded the settlement/awarded damages.

 

[Tyrus]

Hockey Canada should absolutely bring all complaints to law enforcement. You're right.

But even if they did that, it would not get them out of paying settlements or damages in civil cases. And in a civil case, taking it to court would not result in anyone going to jail. It's not either/or when it comes to civil cases or criminal cases. It seems like you misunderstand how it works.

Even if all 8 players, in this case, were charged and convicted criminally, the victim could (and should) still bring a civil case against Hockey Canada that "your money" would fund.

While I disagree with the premise that HC should be monetarily responsible for the non-work related actions of its employees, I'd be willing to consider this if all complaints were brought to law enforcement for serious investigation.

 

[DaveMatthew]

While I disagree with the premise that HC should be monetarily responsible for the actions of its players, I'd be willing to consider this if all complaints were brought to law enforcement for serious investigation.

Hockey Canada could always be monetarily responsible for the actions of its players, as long as they have players. Just like the company you work for could be held monetarily responsible for your actions, depending on what you do and when and where you do it. There is no getting out of that. It's not something that can even be "considered".

 

[bandwagonesque]

Never, bandy.

Good to see you stalking me here in the mains, after posting those falsehoods in the Virtanen thread.

I was getting worried about you.

Until you said this, I was probably the one person here who knew what the hell you were talking about, on any level.

 

[Avs44]

F the Canadian gov!! their policies are causing top players to not want to play in Canada anymore,
Sucks that this happened and justice will be dealt but cmon Canada get your head back in the game and fix the fact stars don't want to play here!!.
If we lose Matthews cuz our commie leaning gov I am gonna be sooo pissed

In a thread with some truly terrible takes, this might be the most unintelligent I have seen.

 

[Tyrus]

What?? You want hockey Canada to force victims to go to court? How would they enforce this?

By not offering the possibility of settlements and instead providing alleged victims with the support required to go through criminal proceedings.

It seems you don't understand the gravity of your words. This is a preposterous demand.

What's preposterous is pretending that a system where the actions of possible rapists and sexual predators could potentially be bought out, with my own money no less, should be allowed to exist.

If the players raped or assaulted someone then I want them in jail and I want HC to fully help with the proceedings, if they didn't then I don't want HC to pay out settlements using my own money.

 

[surixon]

Of course funding will be required to pursue legal cases, that's what I want my money to be used for.

Legal cases in which guilt or innocence can be actually determined, and actual legal actions can be taken against those guilty.

What I don't want it to be used for are settlement payments meant to buy out the actions of potential rapists and sexual predators or, in much less likely scenarios, meant to pay out unsubstantiated or straight up false accusations.

You do realize that even if criminal charges are pursued by the victim and endorsed by Hockey Canada it doesn't prevent the victim from also suing Hockey Canada right?

Civil and criminal cases are two different things with two very different outcomes.

Even if the victim gets justice through the criminal system the victim still may want monetary compensation as well. So is Hockey Canada not supposed to have the means to provide it?

You don't seem to have an idea of how the court system works. If Hockey Canada is served they have no choice but to defend themselves in civil court or settle out of court. None of that prevents them from also supporting the victim if they elect to pursue criminal charges.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

F the Canadian gov!! their policies are causing top players to not want to play in Canada anymore,
Sucks that this happened and justice will be dealt but cmon Canada get your head back in the game and fix the fact stars don't want to play here!!.
If we lose Matthews cuz our commie leaning gov I am gonna be sooo pissed

You don’t know what communism is. Being scared of things you don’t know is common.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You do realize that even if criminal charges are pursued by the victim and endorsed by Hockey Canada it doesn't prevent the victim from also suing Hockey Canada right?

Civil and criminal cases are two different things with two very different outcomes.

Even if the victim gets justice through the criminal system the victim still may want monetary compensation as well. So is Hockey Canada not supposed to have the means to provide it?

Who cares about providing monetary damages to victims of sexual assault. We have taxpayers to worry about!

Victims should have a right to criminal justice and monetary damages.

 

[DeeQ]

F the Canadian gov!! their policies are causing top players to not want to play in Canada anymore,
Sucks that this happened and justice will be dealt but cmon Canada get your head back in the game and fix the fact stars don't want to play here!!.
If we lose Matthews cuz our commie leaning gov I am gonna be sooo pissed

Wow. Just wow.

 

[TheBeard]

At a higher level, I agree with you.

It's knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Knowing that actions have consequences. It's the first thing you should learn in life.

That is true, but I just don't think that should be the thing that stops people from doing shitty things.

 

[Quinning]

You really learn a lot about people judging by how they react to situations like this.

 

[joestevens29]

London, Ont. police announce internal review of 2018 investigation | TSN

London, Ont. police announced Wednesday that an internal review into the handling of the force's completed investigation into the 2018 alleged sexual assault involving eight Canadian Hockey League players will begin "immediately."

www.tsn.ca

I guess this is the larger story for me. Did the police do their due diligence.

I understand payouts happen and that Hockey Canada seemed to push this through rather quickly, but are the police who are supposed to be protecting and serving us do their job properly here?

 

[TheBeard]

F the Canadian gov!! their policies are causing top players to not want to play in Canada anymore,
Sucks that this happened and justice will be dealt but cmon Canada get your head back in the game and fix the fact stars don't want to play here!!.
If we lose Matthews cuz our commie leaning gov I am gonna be sooo pissed

A...are you in the wrong thread?

 

[Tyrus]

Hockey Canada could always be monetarily responsible for the actions of its players, as long as they have players. Just like the company you work for could be held monetarily responsible for your actions, depending on what you do and when and where you do it. There is no getting out of that. It's not something that can even be "considered".

My point being it shouldn't be that way.

HC shouldn't be liable for rapists and sexual predators acting of their own volition within their ranks in civil cases, and HC should do everything in their power to bring the rapists and sexual predators within their ranks to justice via criminal cases.

Those two ideas don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Regardless, my opinion on how this should play out ultimately matters very little. HC will likely get their full funding back with little to no real string attached and the nightmare will continue.

 

[Avs44]

Why do you say that? reality is the perpetrators will be charged and we will move on, what is it you want? what constitutes an intelligent response? Does a poster have to give some thoughts and prayers bs virtue signal to be considered intelligent?

- This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Canadian teams' ability to retain players. Maybe that conversation would be appropriate in a Gaudreau thread? This thread is about a possible sexual assault and Hockey Canada's involvement in it...not about Canadian teams' retention rate, and not about Justin Trudeau. Yet you pop in here and somehow instantaneously make it about that.
- This thread also has nothing to do with the Maple Leafs or Auston Matthews. You again, of course, manage to make it instantly about them.
- Goodness knows there is a laundry list of things to dislike about Trudeau, but clearly you do not have the faintest clue what Communism is.
- You've managed to make this conversation so thoroughly about your uninformed politics that all of these posts are probably gonna get removed.