Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Deuce22]

If that's the case, and they are later found to have been participants, I want scorched earth for them. This needs to be career-ending. No matter who you are.

When was the last time someone who was accused of something had their representative put out a false statement? Pretty much always.

 

[MXD]

Just a sincere question, what is the mechanism that will force disclosure of the alleged perpetrators if there is a NDA and no criminal charges will be pursued.?

The thread has been helpful in understanding the situation, but I haven't seen anything related to this.

Hockey Canada can waive all privileges.

 

[inthe6ix]

They weren’t all on the World Junior team

All their names were on the official roster.. whether they were physically at the tourney or party in question, is what needs substantiating.

 

[Rob Brown]

Maybe???

I don't refer to bullshit like yours as bullshit because I am angry or hostile, I refer to bullshit like yours as bullshit because I am . . . I am . . . well, you know. It's a schtick.

Just admit that you knowingly resorted to dishonest debating techniques, that you are doubling down here with false accusations that I am somehow angry or hostile about your worthless posts, then apologize, then publicly commit to being better when debating.

Hockey has a toxic culture problem. It is far greater than the same problem within society at large because of the violence inherent in the game, and the abhorrent notion of brotherhood/us vs them and the code of silence that is found in toxic hockey culture that is not found in society in general. This is not open for debate with me in this thread, Hockey Canada themselves has very publicly acknowledged the toxic culture, and anyone who denies or deflects with whataboutisms is simply contributing to the enabling of rape-culture within hockey. Nothing more and nothing less. And doing so consciously, at this point.

You really double downed there, eh?

 

[Tyrus]

So you don't actually know what the burden of proof should be. You don't have to post if you don't know, it's perfectly okay not to do that rather than inventing something whole cloth and potentially misleading a lot of people.

Either you didn't read the comment I was responding to, or you don't understand the difference between "What is X?" and "What should X be?".

If I'm asking you : "What is the burden of proof here", I'm asking for factual information.

If I'm asking you : "What should the burden of proof be here", I'm asking you for your opinion.

The post I was responding to was the later.

 

[inthe6ix]

People should actually read the statements. They're not close to being the same.

For example, Mete said that he was in Jamaica on the date in question. That exonerates him.

Dube's agent said, "Dillon did not engage in any wrongdoing, and he cooperated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, through which all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing. Naming Dillon or attempting to associate him in any way with alleged criminal wrongdoing, or alleging that he was not cooperative with the London Police or was unwilling to cooperate with Hockey Canada, will constitute materially false statements constituting defamation causing serious financial and reputational harm."

That does not exonerate him from being there.

Yes, I'm sure those who physically weren't there have a bullet-proof alibi.. the rest can talk through their lawyers and say whatever to save face.. or perhaps they are telling the truth.. but something seems nefarious nonetheless.

 

[Craigo85]

Trying to keep up with the thread but it seems like all the info is moving to fast.

Where is the allegation from that it was consensual between her and one of the players and then multiple players joined in?

That's a pretty major claim to make, do we have any valid source for that information? IE official reports from authorities or other credible neutral sources.

Please cite. I have not heard anywhere that the Victim told Police that it was consensual. This is a very serious claim you are making. "I've heard that reported verbally" sounds like something you just made up to me.

Look at the end, the bolded one. By itself, it could be ambiguous, but 7 hours after their first texts she replies "Told them I’m not going to pursue it any father and that it was a mistake." Presumably this is after she went to the police and she is replying that she told the police it was a mistake (either her mother reporting it or just the even as a whole).

Until she testifies and provides more context to these texts or things come out in court, I doubt we'll hear something better than this.

Lawyers for players linked to alleged sexual assault to give NHL videos, text messages | TSN

As the NHL pursues its investigation into an alleged 2018 sexual assault involving eight former Canadian Hockey League players, lawyers for the players plan to turn over to the league two videos filmed with a cellphone during and after the incident, as well as 35 text messages sent between the...

www.tsn.ca

According to text messages provided by Davidson, the woman and one of the hockey players exchanged text messages on June 20, 2018.

“Did u go to the police after Sunday?” the player wrote at 11:26 a.m.

“I talked to my mom about it and she called I think but I told her not to. I don’t want anything bad to come of it so I told her to stop,” the woman wrote at 11:53 a.m.

“You said you were having fun??” the player wrote at 11:55 a.m.

“I was really drunk, didn’t feel good about it at all after. But I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble, I know I was in the wrong too,” the woman wrote at 11:58 a.m.

“I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of,” the woman wrote at 12:04 p.m.

“I understand that you are embarrassed about what happened. But you need to talk to your mother right now and straighten things out with the police before this goes to [sic] far. This is a serious matter that she is mis [sic] representing and could have significant implications for a lot of people including you,” the player wrote at 12:06 p.m.

“What can you do to make this go away?” he wrote at 12:06 p.m.

“Ya I understand that, I’m not trying to push this any farther,” she responded at 12:07 p.m.

“I’m sorry for any trouble it might have already caused,” she wrote at 12:07 p.m.

“Ok so can you please figure out how to make this go away and contact the police,” the player wrote at 12:09 p.m.

After several messages asking if she had gone to police, the player texted again at 2:14 p.m.: “I appreciate that your [sic] going to put an end to this I know this must not be easy for you to have to call the police and say this was a mistake. have you thought about what you are going to say to them?”

“Told them I’m not going to pursue it any father and that it was a mistake. You should be good now so hopefully nothing more comes of it. Sorry again,” the woman wrote at 7:14 p.m.

“I appreciate you telling the truth. Thank you all the best,” the player wrote in his final text message at 7:40 p.m.

 

[DaveMatthew]

When was the last time someone who was accused of something had their representative put out a false statement? Pretty much always.

A police officer once told me that if I'm ever accused of something, deny it, even if you know you did it. There's no extra penalty for lying.

This was in the case of a traffic violation, mind you, but it's a strategy a lot of people use.

 

[BondraTime]

All their names were on the official roster.. whether they were physically at the tourney or party in question, is what needs substantiating.

No, they weren’t. All were CHL players, not all were members of the World Junior Team

There were 8 in the civil suit, not all 8 were on the World Junior team

 

[Avs44]

I roughly counted 15 players who denied involvement in the assault either directly or through their counsel - that leaves 7 players on a 22-man roster.. plantiff said she was assaulted by 8 players.

Something doesn't add up .. there seems to be some merit to your suspicion.

There is a massive disparity in some of the statements. Some said they were not there at the gala or even in London Ontario at all (e.g. Mete, Kyrou) which is so easily provable/disprovable that they are almost 100% innocent of being involved; some have denied any involvement in the incident at all (e.g. Makar, Thomas); and many others have simply said they deny wrongdoing, which is a very different statement altogether considering that the legal counsel for the players has freely acknowledged that on the night/early morning in question something involving a woman and eight guys did happen. They're just arguing it was all consensual. The statements simply denying wrongdoing but not denying any knowledge/involvement in the incident are therefore essentially meaningless.

 

[inthe6ix]

No, they weren’t. All were CHL players, not all were members of the World Junior Team

There were 8 in the civil suit, not all 8 were on the World Junior team

Isn't this the roster?

Rosters

Rosters for the 2018 IIHF World Junior Championship in Buffalo, N.Y. at the Key Bank Center and HarborCenter. Get player details for Team Canada and other competing teams. Find names, heights, weights, birthdates, draft status, hometown and club teams, as well as player bios for all Canadian...

www.hockeycanada.ca

 

[PostBradMalone]

When was the last time someone who was accused of something had their representative put out a false statement? Pretty much always.

There's a difference between "I was not there and never saw anything", and "I was cleared of all wrongdoing". Given the London police interviewed the eight players, the former can be very easily disproved.

 

[Craigo85]

Just a sincere question, what is the mechanism that will force disclosure of the alleged perpetrators if there is a NDA and no criminal charges will be pursued.?

The thread has been helpful in understanding the situation, but I haven't seen anything related to this.

A new HC investigation or the NHL investigation ... or leaks. This isn't going anywhere in the criminal system unless some new info comes out, and in the civil system ... well she already settled.

The problem with the HC/NHL investigation is that releasing names when there's been no court cases to validate anything would presumably open them up to litigation too.

 

[BondraTime]

Isn't this the roster?

Rosters

Rosters for the 2018 IIHF World Junior Championship in Buffalo, N.Y. at the Key Bank Center and HarborCenter. Get player details for Team Canada and other competing teams. Find names, heights, weights, birthdates, draft status, hometown and club teams, as well as player bios for all Canadian...

www.hockeycanada.ca

Yes, that’s the roster.

The 8 CHL players that were accused were not all members of that roster.

 

[Avs44]

Isn't this the roster?

Rosters

Rosters for the 2018 IIHF World Junior Championship in Buffalo, N.Y. at the Key Bank Center and HarborCenter. Get player details for Team Canada and other competing teams. Find names, heights, weights, birthdates, draft status, hometown and club teams, as well as player bios for all Canadian...

www.hockeycanada.ca

That's the WJC roster, yes. But reporting from Westhead has indicated that while all eight guys involved were in the CHL at the time, only some of them were also on the WJC roster. So apparently there were some non-WJC guys involved...

The Westhead article is here from three days ago. This is the relevant quote:

In a lawsuit that was filed in April and settled weeks later, a woman referred to as “E.M.” in court documents alleged that eight Canadian Hockey League players, including at least some who were members of Canada’s 2018 World Juniors hockey team, assaulted her for hours in a London, Ont., hotel room following a Hockey Canada event in June 2018.

If it's indeed true that they were all in the CHL then we can also write some other names off, e.g. Makar, since he was not in the CHL at the time but rather the NCAA.

 

[Deuce22]

There's a difference between "I was not there and never saw anything", and "I was cleared of all wrongdoing". Given the London police interviewed the eight players, the former can be very easily disproved.

No doubt, what I'm questioning is why the players who have put out ANY KIND of statement are being absolved by the internet sleuths.

 

[DaveMatthew]

A new HC investigation or the NHL investigation ... or leaks. This isn't going anywhere in the criminal system unless some new info comes out, and in the civil system ... well she already settled.

The problem with the HC/NHL investigation is that releasing names when there's been no court cases to validate anything would presumably open them up to litigation too.

Honestly, the NHLs investigation will hinge on the victim's willingness to participate and the degree to which she wants to delve into what occurred.

She could very well say, "I've moved on and don't want to relive it" - at which point, there's not much the NHL would have to go on.

No doubt, what I'm questioning is why the players who have put out ANY KIND of statement are being absolved by the internet sleuths.

Probably because internet sleuths are usually terrible sleuths who type before they think.

 

[Deuce22]

Honestly, the NHLs investigation will hinge on the victim's willingness to participate and the degree to which she wants to delve into what occurred.

She could very well say, "I've moved on and don't want to relive it" - at which point, there's not much the NHL would have to go on.



Probably because internet sleuths are usually terrible sleuths who type before they think.

Was the accuser/victim so drunk that she could actually positively identify the players? Perhaps part of the reason she didn't want to move forward with criminal complaint was that she wasn't actually sure of who they were. If this was the case it would take one of the 8 throwing the rest under the bus.

 

[I am toxic]

I don't disagree with you but this is literally every professional sport. Its not just hockey. Its actually probably much worse in football and basketball

Let me reiterate. Bolded mine. In fact, the entire quote is mine.

This is not open for debate with me in this thread, Hockey Canada themselves has very publicly acknowledged the toxic culture, and anyone who denies or deflects with whataboutisms is simply contributing to the enabling of rape-culture within hockey. Nothing more and nothing less. And doing so consciously, at this point.

If you want to address football or basketball, I will look forward to the debate on FFBoards and BFBoards.

 

[Avs44]

Was the accuser/victim so drunk that she could actually positively identify the players? Perhaps part of the reason she didn't want to move forward with criminal complaint was that she wasn't actually sure of who they were. If this was the case it would take one of the 8 throwing the rest under the bus.

Well 7/8 are now all represented by one law firm so it’s safe to say that the identity of the guys is known…

 

[red devil]

Honestly, the NHLs investigation will hinge on the victim's willingness to participate and the degree to which she wants to delve into what occurred.

She could very well say, "I've moved on and don't want to relive it" - at which point, there's not much the NHL would have to go on.

The last report is that she has agreed to cooperate with the new Hockey Canada investigation but there isn't anything as of yet for the NHL investigation as I don't believe it has started.

 

[Quinning]

That text message exchange (if true) is alarming to say the least.

That reeks of a desperate, panicked young man that knows he f***ed up, trying to gaslight a victim into bailing he and his buddies out of trouble. Probably saw his career flash before his eyes.

That's not someone who doesn't know what they did was wrong.

 

[red devil]

 

[slamigo]

How on earth can Hockey Canada be trusted to investigate itself?

 

[DaveMatthew]

How on earth can Hockey Canada be trusted to investigate itself?

Their statement says the review will be overseen by an independent 3rd party.