Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[PostBradMalone]

Well, that depends on your opinion of the 2018 investigation by the London police.

Based on what has been reported of it so far, this is my impression of how it went down:

 

[not a troll]

So after 8 guys run a train on the girl they make her record a quick video saying she consented to the whole thing?

Yikes

 

[Steve Kournianos]

She gave consent before and after, and it’s on video.

Also, when she’s sober on Sunday, she texted “…told them…it was a mistake”, meaning she told her parents a different story twice in one day. That can kill an accuser’s credibility (from a legal standpoint) because it confirms dishonesty, and all a defense lawyer has to do is ask her “why did you lie to your parents?”

And there is no proof of coercion, just her own accusation, and video reveals consent. I’m sure the police tried to verify any coercion but found zilch. That’s likely why no charges were filed.

The only thing she has going for her is — “I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of”.

That could mean the player initiated the desire for a gang-bang against her wishes, and that there may have been moments where she wanted it to stop and it continued. But again, she’s on video before and after saying she enjoyed it, and even the player says he was under the impression she enjoyed it.

How drunk she was is the key for the consent argument, because she claimed in her filing to be intoxicated and in the texts said she was “really drunk”, but again, is on video claiming otherwise.

The main player involved in this is a major f***ing idiot, but those two videos are what probably kept him out of jail. In retrospect, an out-of-court settlement was the right way to go because both parties f***ed up royally, but Westhead’s going to Westhead, I guess.

 

[trick9]

I don't think that's sufficient. Cleared of wrongdoing is why they opened this case back up. It actually makes him look more guilty not less.

Honestly, that statement makes it sound like he was involved. If he wasn’t involved at all, then his agent didn’t word it very well.

My thoughts exactly.

If he is not involved in the incident at all, then that is a pretty poor statement to put forward.

 

[Statto]

Consent can withdrawn and coerced. It's a very thin line but recording a video after the fact isn't enough.

Especially when some of the words seem almost scripted to me - yes I could be very wrong - but If it was someone confessing a crime to the police I’d be wanting to see that they make sure it isn’t coerced. The was it’s worded just doesn’t seem natural.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Thanks Jackie for showing us the way! Our gang-banging youth is in grave danger because of evil predatory, litigious girls!

If seven guys can't sneak up in a room and have their way with a stranger without her having a say in it, where are we going as a society?

I would never condone any kind of violence whatsoever and if these guys in fact r*ped the girl then they deserve jail time.

However right now this case is nothing like Harvey Weinstein. There's one complainant that we know of who has an unknown history. It's not unprecedented for regret to translate into withdrawal of consent long after the act.

Sometimes settlements are made based on allegations simply to avoid a smear campaign or more expensive lengthy trial. It doesn't necessarily mean guilty in a court of law.

According to the police they found insufficient evidence to lay charges. Can they be biased? Absolutely but that's the only official word right now.

Obviously something happened but more evidence needs to emerge here before conclusions can be drawn.

 

[I am toxic]

My thoughts exactly.

If he is not involved in the incident at all, then that is a pretty poor statement to put forward.

The key element to any statement must be that the player in question was not present in that room at all during the time the events took place that night.

You will note many of them have stated exactly that - either they were not at the gala/in the country at all, or they were elsewhere in the hotel for the entire time the events took place.

Any statement simply denying wrongdoing isn't worth the paper it's written on, and is mealy-mouthed lawyer-legalese intended to deliberately deceive people into initially believing the person wasn't involved in the events. The only reason I can think of making such a deliberately deceitful statement is if in fact the person: absolutely was involved in the events, knows the events were wrong, and is is trying to weasel their way out of any culpability.

But maybe there is another reason to deliberately deceive others about one's involvement. If there is, then clarifying statements can be made subsequently and promptly to: clear up the matter, apologize for deliberately deceiving people, and begin to take ownership of and accountability for their involvement in the events that took place that night.

 

[howkie]

She gave consent before and after, and it’s on video.

Also, when she’s sober on Sunday, she texted “…told them…it was a mistake”, meaning she told her parents a different story twice in one day. That can kill an accuser’s credibility (from a legal standpoint) because it confirms dishonesty, and all a defense lawyer has to do is ask her “why did you lie to your parents?”

And there is no proof of coercion, just her own accusation, and video reveals consent. I’m sure the police tried to verify any coercion but found zilch. That’s likely why no charges were filed.

The only thing she has going for her is — “I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of”.

That could mean the player initiated the desire for a gang-bang against her wishes, and that there may have been moments where she wanted it to stop and it continued. But again, she’s on video before and after saying she enjoyed it, and even the player says he was under the impression she enjoyed it.

How drunk she was is the key for the consent argument, because she claimed in her filing to be intoxicated and in the texts said she was “really drunk”, but again, is on video claiming otherwise.

The main player involved in this is a major f***ing idiot, but those two videos are what probably kept him out of jail. In retrospect, an out-of-court settlement was the right way to go because both parties f***ed up royally, but Westhead’s going to Westhead, I guess.

My question in this case, if it is 8 vs 1 and you wanna get out, I promise you will say anything. I bet they could make her say it was she who killed JFK.
I mean do you trust videos of hostages saying everything is fine.....

 

[The Joker]

The "nothing is proven" and "how do we know it was not consensual" people will be nowhere to be found when this goes far enough.

Instead, they're too busy being mad that people care about this case. As if because they don't care, they don't understand why others do. Instead of doing any sort of self-analysis and personal growth, they accuse people of having "moral superiority". I can't even begin to understand the mental gymnastics, the erroneous world view to reach that conclusion.

The erroneous world view "innocent until proven guilty", yeah how dare someone actually wants to see some PROOF before labelling someone as a rapist.

I've not seen one post actually defending the players here if the claims are true. It's a horrible act that should be punished.

It's just that at least some people don't want to go back to the dark age and judge someone based on an accusation without further proof. But feel free to continue, I don't want to disturb your outrageousness.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

She gave consent before and after, and it’s on video.

Also, when she’s sober on Sunday, she texted “…told them…it was a mistake”, meaning she told her parents a different story twice in one day. That can kill an accuser’s credibility (from a legal standpoint) because it confirms dishonesty, and all a defense lawyer has to do is ask her “why did you lie to your parents?”

And there is no proof of coercion, just her own accusation, and video reveals consent. I’m sure the police tried to verify any coercion but found zilch. That’s likely why no charges were filed.

The only thing she has going for her is — “I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of”.

That could mean the player initiated the desire for a gang-bang against her wishes, and that there may have been moments where she wanted it to stop and it continued. But again, she’s on video before and after saying she enjoyed it, and even the player says he was under the impression she enjoyed it.

How drunk she was is the key for the consent argument, because she claimed in her filing to be intoxicated and in the texts said she was “really drunk”, but again, is on video claiming otherwise.

The main player involved in this is a major f***ing idiot, but those two videos are what probably kept him out of jail. In retrospect, an out-of-court settlement was the right way to go because both parties f***ed up royally, but Westhead’s going to Westhead, I guess.

The guys would know if the girl was drunk or not if they spent that much time with her, regardless if you think she gave consent or not, if you showed up in a room and there were 7 other guys and a drunk girl you'd walk back out if you were even half smart. Would be interesting to know the details of the invite from the main player to the others as that likely captures the intent.

 

[H3ckt1k]

She gave consent before and after, and it’s on video.

Also, when she’s sober on Sunday, she texted “…told them…it was a mistake”, meaning she told her parents a different story twice in one day. That can kill an accuser’s credibility (from a legal standpoint) because it confirms dishonesty, and all a defense lawyer has to do is ask her “why did you lie to your parents?”

And there is no proof of coercion, just her own accusation, and video reveals consent. I’m sure the police tried to verify any coercion but found zilch. That’s likely why no charges were filed.

The only thing she has going for her is — “I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of”.

That could mean the player initiated the desire for a gang-bang against her wishes, and that there may have been moments where she wanted it to stop and it continued. But again, she’s on video before and after saying she enjoyed it, and even the player says he was under the impression she enjoyed it.

How drunk she was is the key for the consent argument, because she claimed in her filing to be intoxicated and in the texts said she was “really drunk”, but again, is on video claiming otherwise.

The main player involved in this is a major f***ing idiot, but those two videos are what probably kept him out of jail. In retrospect, an out-of-court settlement was the right way to go because both parties f***ed up royally, but Westhead’s going to Westhead, I guess.

This thread really missed your takes

 

[Alicat]

The first video is six seconds and was filmed at 3:25 a.m. during the incident, Kaleigh Davidson, a lawyer working for the players, said in an interview with TSN on Sunday.

The exchange is as follows:

“You’re okay with this?” an unidentified man asks the woman, who is shown from her neck up in the video.

“I’m okay with this,” she responds.

The second video is 12 seconds and was filmed at 4:26 a.m., after the incident, Davidson said. The woman stands with a towel covering her chest.

“Are you recording me?” the woman said on the video. “Okay, good. It was all consensual. You are so paranoid. Holy. I enjoyed it. It was fine. It was all consensual. I am so sober, that’s why I can’t do this right now.”

What do you guys make of this? hard to get a read on it.


“Did u go to the police after Sunday?” the player wrote at 11:26 a.m.

“I talked to my mom about it and she called I think but I told her not to. I don’t want anything bad to come of it so I told her to stop,” the woman wrote at 11:53 a.m.

“You said you were having fun??” the player wrote at 11:55 a.m.

“I was really drunk, didn’t feel good about it at all after. But I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble, I know I was in the wrong too,” the woman wrote at 11:58 a.m.

“I was ok with going home with you, it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn’t expecting. I just felt like I was being made fun of and taken advantage of,” the woman wrote at 12:04 p.m.

“I understand that you are embarrassed about what happened. But you need to talk to your mother right now and straighten things out with the police before this goes to [sic] far. This is a serious matter that she is mis [sic] representing and could have significant implications for a lot of people including you,” the player wrote at 12:06 p.m.

“What can you do to make this go away?” he wrote at 12:06 p.m.

“Ya I understand that, I’m not trying to push this any farther,” she responded at 12:07 p.m.

“I’m sorry for any trouble it might have already caused,” she wrote at 12:07 p.m.

“Ok so can you please figure out how to make this go away and contact the police,” the player wrote at 12:09 p.m.

After several messages asking if she had gone to police, the player texted again at 2:14 p.m.: “I appreciate that your [sic] going to put an end to this I know this must not be easy for you to have to call the police and say this was a mistake. have you thought about what you are going to say to them?”

“Told them I’m not going to pursue it any father and that it was a mistake. You should be good now so hopefully nothing more comes of it. Sorry again,” the woman wrote at 7:14 p.m.

“I appreciate you telling the truth. Thank you all the best,” the player wrote in his final text message at 7:40 p.m.


This text thread is pretty gross. Having a hard time understanding why they would release it to press when it makes them look even worse then they already do.

They’re trying to establish that she gave consent and they’ll say that the player showed remorse.

It’s a common but sickening practice aimed at discrediting the victim.

A video that is 20 seconds long is not enough to establish consent hell it isn’t even enough to give a clear picture about what happened and what and whom she gave consent to.

 

[Arbsy]

The text messages released are pretty f***ed up. I’m talking about the ones where the player is asking the girl If she’s called the police and then basically telling her things could go bad if she didn’t stop the investigation. Also the situation in itself is just wrong. He hooks up with her and then let’s 7 of his buddies, that she was not expecting, into the room to all engage in sex with her. Bro, that’s just wrong.

I’ve never hooked up with a girl and then thought the next day “damn, I should really make sure that girl doesn’t call the cops on me”.

Those texts prove to me that these guys knew what they did was not only wrong but potentially illegal.

 

[NotProkofievian]

They’re trying to establish that she gave consent and they’ll say that the player showed remorse.

It’s a common but sickening practice aimed at discrediting the victim.

A video that is 20 seconds long is not enough to establish consent hell it isn’t even enough to give a clear picture about what happened and what and whom she gave consent to.

Trying to establish consent isn't ''discrediting the victim,'' it's just a defence. Discrediting the victim would be trying to paint her as a disreputable, promiscuous woman whose word couldn't be trusted, or something like that.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

The text messages released are pretty f***ed up. I’m talking about the ones where the player is asking the girl If she’s called the police and then basically telling her things could go bad if she didn’t stop the investigation. Also the situation in itself is just wrong. He hooks up with her and then let’s 7 of his buddies, that she was not expecting, into the room to all engage in sex with her. Bro, that’s just wrong.

I’ve never hooked up with a girl and then thought the next day “damn, I should really make sure that girl doesn’t call the cops on me”.

Those texts prove to me that these guys knew what they did was not only wrong but potentially illegal.

I don’t think the text about the cops was out of the blue, would almost guarantee he was tipped off by someone. London is a relatively small city with deep hockey roots, I’m sure calls were made - he’s texting her within 7 hrs

 

[ozzie]

They’re trying to establish that she gave consent and they’ll say that the player showed remorse.

It’s a common but sickening practice aimed at discrediting the victim.

A video that is 20 seconds long is not enough to establish consent hell it isn’t even enough to give a clear picture about what happened and what and whom she gave consent to.

Wow, I haven't seen any of this until now. But it would be really hard for a parent to accept any of this. Even if she was okay with any of this, Which is possible I guess? So maybe the parent are pushing and not the victim willingly. This is all so foreign to me, even the idea that anyone outside of movies would consent or engage in this stuff. This young generation is whacked. Also, how would the players fully know if she consented outside the texts, if they were possibly as blind drunk? Not a defense I know, I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, I'm just not sure what to make of these texts.

 

[Arbsy]

I don’t think the text about the cops was out of the blue, would almost guarantee he was tipped off by someone. London is a relatively small city with deep hockey roots, I’m sure calls were made - he’s texting her within 7 hrs

According the the source these texts were from the morning after the encounter took place and it was her mom that had called the police. No one outside of the family, except for the police, knew at the time. Highly unlikely he was tipped off.

That’s just my opinion though. These guys are greasy as f***.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

According the the source these texts were from the morning after the encounter took place and it was her mom that had called the police. No one outside of the family, except for the police, knew at the time. Highly unlikely he was tipped off.

That’s just my opinion though. These guys are greasy as f***.

An accusation of that level would’ve reached someone in the hockey world very quick. He’s not guessing if the cops have been contacted he knows and is in damage control.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

A young man or woman who willingly and consensually agreed to take part in an eight on one gang bang is not going to go home and tell his/her mother.

 

[Voight]

Boy am I ever glad to have made choices in my life where this wasn't an issue for me.

Truly mind blowing stuff how this happens. 1 dude goes and has sex with consent with a gal and it turns into 7 of his friends also having sex with her and none of them were like "bruh... maybe this isn't a good idea"

Personally, even if this was all 1000% consensual, I wouldn't do it. Like I want to share a girl with 7 of my friends. No thanks.

 

[Arbsy]

An accusation of that level would’ve reached someone in the hockey world very quick. He’s not guessing if the cops have been contacted he knows and is in damage control.

Yeah, he’s in damage control control because he just gang raped a girl in a hotel room and is having an “oh f***, am I going to jail” moment.

 

[rielledup]

According the the source these texts were from the morning after the encounter took place and it was her mom that had called the police. No one outside of the family, except for the police, knew at the time. Highly unlikely he was tipped off.

That’s just my opinion though. These guys are greasy as f***.

4 am of the 19th to 11 am on the 20th is 31 hours. Does the fact that he says "after sunday" not tip anyone off that it wasnt the same morning? Otherwise he would've said after last night.

 

[Alicat]

Trying to establish consent isn't ''discrediting the victim,'' it's just a defence. Discrediting the victim would be trying to paint her as a disreputable, promiscuous woman whose word couldn't be trusted, or something like that.

My comments about consent were about the videos that were released.

They’ll use the text exchange to absolutely discredit her by painting her as untruthful and deceptive. They’ll point out that she recanted her claims to law enforcement.

They will also paint her as promiscuous as you said.

Her lawyer can refute it by saying she was pressured and gaslit by the player.

Bottom line is that it’s going to get ugly.

 

[Voight]

I’m not even gonna chime in on this specific incident. I have my opinions but this threads turning in to a war so I’ll leave them.

That said … what’s very very scary is that I read today from the victims lawyer “consent can be withdrawn after the fact”.

That is a slippery slope. So a woman or man can consent before , and during multiple times thruout and it’s all good. Then the next morning they can “withdraw” their previously given consent, leaving the other partner criminally / civilly responsible. That isn’t withdrawn consent, that’s remorse / regret.


Again ALL this is speaking generically and not about this incident cuz i personally think the act was disgusting regardless if courts say they were allowed to have done whatever they did to her.

It is quite scary. Back in the day I knew girls who regretted sleeping with a guy the next day because of whatever reasons, I can only imagine how bad things would be for the guy if they decided the next day they would be talking to the police.

So next time they should sign a contract beforehand? Might not be enough though because they could have made her sign it.

I don't even want to let them off the hook. I just find it crazy how some guys here call these players rapists with confidence when that is not clear right now at all.

Hence what happened in the Duke lacrosse case. The kids were called rapists and a lot of other bad things and their lives were ruined.

That's not how withdrawn consent works.

Withdrawn consent is when consent is given, then one party decides during sex that actually they don't want to do it, thereby withdrawing consent.

In some places (because I'm too lazy to look it up), if the other party continues, that's rape, despite consent having been previously given.

That seems tough to prove, its basically he said she said at that point no?

So again...do you think Hockey Canada paid a quick settlement without going through insurance because they were simply feeling cheery and generous? Why would Hockey Canada do this if everything was done in good faith and there was legitimate consent?

It doesn't matter how you'd handle it as a parent. You're not living in that nightmare. Besides, I'm sure the family of the female want this nightmare to go away (it likely never will). Also a lawsuit doesn't go to criminal court.

I think regardless they would have wanted to settle this quickly, most corporations/companies/organizations of that size and prestige would rather clear something like this up ASAP.

 

[Arbsy]

Before I leave this thread, I’m mainly curious as to why, with the information we currently have, are there so many already trying to invalidate her story in order to minimize what these clowns did.

I have a daughter and I’d go scorched earth if that happened to her. An 18 year old girl, likes a guy so she consents to sex with him. He then lets in 7 more guys, without her prior knowledge, who go at her for hours and she says she was “crying” and “attempted to leave multiple times”. All of this sounds okay to you guys? These guys sound like dudes worth standing up for?