Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[bert]

I touched a nerve, didn't I?

You keep on insisting that I have self-serving purpose... what is it? Ya think I'm going to run for office so I've launched a PR campaign with my ridiculous and ironic username? Or I'm going to get donations? Like, what's my angle here?

And if I have an angle, what's your angle? That one is a lot more interesting, I think.


And back when society at large insisted on "trusting the professionals", nothing was getting done and we had rapists like Polanski roaming free and getting standing ovations.

Things are changing now. There are professionals, yes. But there's also the acknowledgement that many of us, as citizens, find that we can't just rely on a broken system.

Curiously, ever since we've started doing that, things have gotten better and many of the professionals are changing their ways. Several countries are now working on projects to reform/upgrade the system as it pertains to sexual crimes. And this is certainly in part to public outrage by what you would call assholes with a desire to feel morally superior" like the many posters who are speaking up here.

This will be a better world for women and children. Including those in your life.

You're welcome.

You lied.... You claimed I said something I didn't. Why did you feel a need to do that? It was self serving.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I’m not even gonna chime in on this specific incident. I have my opinions but this threads turning in to a war so I’ll leave them.

That said … what’s very very scary is that I read today from the victims lawyer “consent can be withdrawn after the fact”.

That is a slippery slope. So a woman or man can consent before , and during multiple times thruout and it’s all good. Then the next morning they can “withdraw” their previously given consent, leaving the other partner criminally / civilly responsible. That isn’t withdrawn consent, that’s remorse / regret.


Again ALL this is speaking generically and not about this incident cuz i personally think the act was disgusting regardless if courts say they were allowed to have done whatever they did to her.

 

[The Joker]

I’m going to stop you right here: no. Go read a book or something.

So next time they should sign a contract beforehand? Might not be enough though because they could have made her sign it.

I don't even want to let them off the hook. I just find it crazy how some guys here call these players rapists with confidence when that is not clear right now at all.

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

8...

 

[The Joker]

It's common knowledge in Canada that consent can not be given when intoxicated. Period. The film showing her consenting is completely irrelevant.

Common knowledge? Ah I see.

 

[Korpse]

I’m not even gonna chime in on this specific incident. I have my opinions but this threads turning in to a war so I’ll leave them.

That said … what’s very very scary is that I read today from the victims lawyer “consent can be withdrawn after the fact”.

That is a slippery slope. So a woman or man can consent before , and during multiple times thruout and it’s all good. Then the next morning they can “withdraw” their previously given consent, leaving the other partner criminally / civilly responsible. That isn’t withdrawn consent, that’s remorse / regret.


Again ALL this is speaking generically and not about this incident cuz i personally think the act was disgusting regardless if courts say they were allowed to have done whatever they did to her.

I haven't seen that specific quote but to me, what that means is that it can be consensual at first but during the encounter one of the parties is no longer interested participating.

 

[snowkiddin]

It's common knowledge in Canada that consent can not be given when intoxicated. Period. The film showing her consenting is completely irrelevant.

Not to mention possible coercion.

I’m trying to be cautious with any accusations as this is still an ongoing process and we don’t know the facts, but I would just suggest that this video isn’t ultimate proof that clears any wrongdoing.

 

[Cloned]

I’m not even gonna chime in on this specific incident. I have my opinions but this threads turning in to a war so I’ll leave them.

That said … what’s very very scary is that I read today from the victims lawyer “consent can be withdrawn after the fact”.

That is a slippery slope. So a woman or man can consent before , and during multiple times thruout and it’s all good. Then the next morning they can “withdraw” their previously given consent, leaving the other partner criminally / civilly responsible. That isn’t withdrawn consent, that’s remorse / regret.


Again ALL this is speaking generically and not about this incident cuz i personally think the act was disgusting regardless if courts say they were allowed to have done whatever they did to her.

It’s moreso that consent can be withdrawn during the act and that should compel the act to stop.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

All the people saying “I have a daughter and ….”

What if you have a son? You have a son who’s a great respectful kid. He does everything right and is a gentleman and has sex with a willing , sober , consensual partner and the next morning she “withdraws consent” (as it can be withdrawn after the fact). She sues your son, charges him criminally , he does jail time , has a record , loses his job, his friends, his scholarship etc. and is labeled as a rapist.


Withdrawn consent after the fact is f***ing scary. Parents of good sons / daughters should be very worried now.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

That is a slippery slope. So a woman or man can consent before , and during multiple times thruout and it’s all good. Then the next morning they can “withdraw” their previously given consent, leaving the other partner criminally / civilly responsible. That isn’t withdrawn consent, that’s remorse / regret.

That's not how withdrawn consent works.

Withdrawn consent is when consent is given, then one party decides during sex that actually they don't want to do it, thereby withdrawing consent.

In some places (because I'm too lazy to look it up), if the other party continues, that's rape, despite consent having been previously given.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

It’s moreso that consent can be withdrawn during the act and that should compel the act to stop.

For sure it should be. A girl (or guy) says “you know what …. Stop. I don’t wanna do this anymore” I expect my kid, anyones kid to immediately stop and listen to their partner. 100%.

Unfortunately I’ve read many times today that withdrawn consent can literally be the next day as well. To me that’s nuts.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Sorry but consent is consent. If you don't agree to it you should say no. She agreed to it and stated so in two videos, one after the incident.

Survival is survival.

I'm a moderately strong guy and mature enough to have confidence. But if I'm isolated in a room with 7-9 athletes in their prime and ready to f*** me up, I'd be willing to be recorded and say I'm Napoleon Bonaparte or Lady Gaga, if this allows me to get away or put an end to the nightmare I'm living. I would say anything, and so would anyone who is intimidated. Including this girl.

It's certainly gross but this right now is the only real evidence we have and by that, this can't be considered rape.

This isn't evidence of consent at all. This will never hold in court because she is still in the room, in danger when this is filmed. This was just a PR stunt by lawyers who are trying to intimidate this girl by swaying a few people like you who don't know any better.

 

[bert]

Except no, you said they were “falsely accused”. Try again.



Apparently the professionals in this case saw enough in the victim’s story to pay out a not-insignificant sum that required liquidating assets. What do you think about that?



If you want to grandstand on behalf of several individuals accused of rape, I don’t really know how you expect to be perceived.

I didn't do any of that..... You two just keep saying it, then suggesting it, then insinuating it. A poster came to the conclusion they are all guilty. Until proven guilty that's falsely accused. If you don't understand how the judicial system works. Or you believe your opinion should trump the charter of rights then so be it. But suggesting because someone doesn't agree with your position over the law means they are rape sympathizer.... Well again that says alot more about you than me. There are several posts that go back in this thread where I clearly state I don't condone it on any level and say if the crime was indeed committed they should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Education on legal matters and precedent.

It's not victim blaming or shaming to wait until a case is resolved by conviction before claiming that the accusation was truthful.

Until then, there is only conjecture and unsubstantiated claims.

I can come here and accuse Trudeau of having fondled me inappropriately 6 years ago, provide no supporting evidence and some would take my accusation as verified fact.

It's not how the legal world works.
It's not how society should work.

Our Charter claims equal treatment under the law for all. It does not have a sub clause for inherent belief in a group over another with regards to any matter.

Our Charter also offers robust protection for individuals from false accusation and or false testimony. It's the basis for perjury.

Charter also lays out that we are all assumed not guilty of an action until proven guilty.
There are varying degrees if guilt needed to satisfy this clause depending on the allegation.

Beyond a reasonable doubt - for most civil cases.
Beyond all doubt - for serious criminal offenses.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Do you really think Hockey Canada paid the female a huge hush settlement and tried to hide this just because they were feeling the Christmas spirit generosity in May?

You cut a (modest) check and 'expect' to walk away from the issue with non-disclosure statements set in place - saves money in the long run.

It's disgusting, immoral and an affront to God; but it is an established part of our society. Unfortunately man is made to live in the hell he creates. Like a nightmare. Namaste

 

[The Joker]

Survival is survival.

I'm a moderately strong guy and mature enough to have confidence. But if I'm isolated in a room with 7-9 athletes in their prime and ready to f*** me up, I'd be willing to be recorded and say I'm Napoleon Bonaparte or Lady Gaga, if this allows me to get away or put an end to the nightmare I'm living. I would say anything, and so would anyone who is intimidated. Including this girl.



This isn't evidence of consent at all. This will never hold in court because she is still in the room, in danger when this is filmed. This was just a PR stunt by lawyers who are trying to intimidate this girl by swaying a few people like you who don't know any better.

So you know better?

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

8 hockey players thought it was ok to have a gang bang with a drunk girl and posters are defending that?

Rest of the story is just window dressing

If it was one player and she had morning after regrets sure lets talk about consent but he went and got his friends

 

[The Joker]

8 hockey players thought it was ok to have a gang bang with a drunk girl and posters are defending that?

Rest of the story is just window dressing

If it was one player and she had morning after regrets sure lets talk about consent but he went and got his friends

Well a gangbang never happened before.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

8 hockey players thought it was ok to have a gang bang with a drunk girl and posters are defending that?

Rest of the story is just window dressing

If it was one player and she had morning after regrets sure lets talk about consent but he went and got his friends

There is a war being waged against women

 

[Maplebeasts]

All the people saying “I have a daughter and ….”

What if you have a son? You have a son who’s a great respectful kid. He does everything right and is a gentleman and has sex with a willing , sober , consensual partner and the next morning she “withdraws consent” (as it can be withdrawn after the fact). She sues your son, charges him criminally , he does jail time , has a record , loses his job, his friends, his scholarship etc. and is labeled as a rapist.


Withdrawn consent after the fact is f***ing scary. Parents of good sons / daughters should be very worried now.

If she was drunk and co-erced which seeing Hockey Canada investigated and settled instead of fighting the allegations in court is probably true, she was never in a place to give consent in a moral or legal sense. The players had a responsibility to not engage her sexually while she was intoxicated and failed. If they had waited until she was sober and did not co-erce or intimidate her at all there would be proper consent and thus no wrongdoing.

 

[PB37]

Sorry but consent is consent. If you don't agree to it you should say no. She agreed to it and stated so in two videos, one after the incident.

It's certainly gross but this right now is the only real evidence we have and by that, this can't be considered rape. So at least until there is further evidence you should stay away from calling these guys rapists.

Giving consent depends on the person's ability to make informed decisions free from coercion or pressure.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's disgusting, immoral and an affront to God;

The Bible recommends rapists be stoned to death.

These boys got off lightly.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

There is a war being waged against women

Feels like it’s one step forward, two steps back.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Feels like it’s one step forward, two steps back.

At least two

 

[Schooner Guy]

I have daughters.

If i were the parent of this girl, I would spit in the face of anyone offering us money to settle the case.

Either the kids get outed and suitabily punished, or we determine she wasn't being honest.

Either way, my only goal would be the truth.

As a detached party to this case, I'm not emotionally connected and it's easier to digest a settlement.

I just completely disagree with there being a settlement in this type of accusation.

So again...do you think Hockey Canada paid a quick settlement without going through insurance because they were simply feeling cheery and generous? Why would Hockey Canada do this if everything was done in good faith and there was legitimate consent?

It doesn't matter how you'd handle it as a parent. You're not living in that nightmare. Besides, I'm sure the family of the female want this nightmare to go away (it likely never will). Also a lawsuit doesn't go to criminal court.

 

[Devonator]

There is a war being waged against women

Hilarious.....just a wee over the top methinks!