Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[LeHab]

C'mon now, a private corporation can't offer immunity from Criminal accusations, nor from a Civil lawsuit introduced by a third party...

(They could say something like : if you cooperate willingly to our investigation, your contract won't be terminated by the league, but the NHL absolutely cannot strong arm a team to not terminate a player)

I meant immunity from league/team sanctions. Similar to how Astros players got immunity in signs cheating scandal.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Question for a legal expert in Canada:

Does the NDA signed also cover the players and thus prevent the police from investigating and the courts from prosecuting them?

Nda doesnt stop police from investigating or courts from prosecuting. It(probably depending on the wording but they usually bar all comments) does stop the woman (the victim) from testifying or answering questions aout incident or else she will forfeit the money in her agreement(althougj its not a crime for her to break the nda, she just forfeits the money)

It wkuld be hard for police to investigate or courts to prosecute tbough without the victims testimony.

 

[MXD]

Question for a legal expert in Canada:

Does the NDA signed also cover the players and thus prevent the police from investigating and the courts from prosecuting them?

More importantly, Hockey Canada can simply waive the privilege.

 

[I am toxic]

//

“What is a code of conduct worth if you don’t (participate with an investigation) when there are alleged horrific sexual assaults?” asked NDP MP Peter Julian. “Shouldn’t that be a condition of being involved with Hockey Canada?”

Hockey Canada is in “talks with their partners” as to whether it can change its code of conduct to require players to take part in future investigations, Smith said. During the hearing, Smith also revealed that Hockey Canada has dealt with one to two sexual assault allegations per year over the past five or six years.

//

 

[Golden_Jet]

Just to provide clarity on a couple points that have been mis spoken in here
The statement of claim also says Hockey Canada failed to remove the players from the team and failed to notify police.

That’s odd since the gala was months after the wJC, plus there were CHL players involved.

 

[LeHab]

My concern here is how this will impact young players & youth hockey if it drags out for a while. Hockey Canada supports so many youth leagues & teams, and I don’t want to see talented young kids having their enjoyment of the game or potential hurt by this whole scandal.

Has to drag as long as necessary to understand what happened, any other shady stories and perform meaningful changes. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[MXD]

I meant immunity from league/team sanctions. Similar to how Astros players got immunity in signs cheating scandal.

Well this could happen, but the league can't exactly strong arm a team into keeping a player.

That’s odd since the gala was months after the wJC, plus there were CHL players involved.

Could've been for the year next.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

It'll be the World Juniors brought to you by some third-rate crypto currency at this rate.

Or whoever advertised during the Memorial Cup, since they have no problem with the CHL's actions.

Apparently it is.



Are you a teenager and is your boss also basically your primary influence over your life and development as a human being?

Also, yes, your employer can be held responsible for your actions off the clock, under certain circumstances (like business trips). That's always been true.

Hockey Canada wouldn't be their bosses in this analogy, their CHL teams would be.

I'm pretty sure the coaches, not HC, build the team, and that the coach wasn'T told something along the lines of "don't pick this guy he's a rapist".

But then again I may be wrong.

"Better get rid of these guys at the trade deadline, they may be rapists."

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Well this could happen, but the league can't exactly strong arm a team into keeping a player.


Could've been for the year next.

There were only two players eligible for 2019.

The NHL should really take action, as well. They should immediately suspend all players without pay who were on the 2018 team who are currently under contract with NHL teams until an investigation is concluded.

They would then also have to suspend every player who played in the CHL in the 2017-18 season.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Genuinely surprised by the radio silence. I thought HC would have something more to say or announce this week. They're getting roasted at that Committee next month. A group of people who hate each others guts and are on Cloud Nine being away from each other until September are coming back just to go after them, together.

 

[I am toxic]

Genuinely surprised by the radio silence. I thought HC would have something more to say or announce this week. They're getting roasted at that Committee next month. A group of people who hate each others guts and are on Cloud Nine being away from each other until September are coming back just to go after them, together.

Don't be.

"Hockey Canada values our relationship with Scotiabank, and we both respect and understand their decision regarding their sponsorship. As we said to the Members of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage last week, Hockey Canada is on a journey to change the culture of our sport and to make it safer and more inclusive, both at the rink and in our communities. We have been on this journey for some time, but we agree that more needs to be done, and more quickly. This is a priority for our organization’s leaders, and with the work we are doing, and the changes we are planning, our intention is to ensure that Hockey Canada meets the standards that our many stakeholders have for us. Canadians will be hearing more about our actions in this regard.”

Emphasis mine. Huh, who'da thunk? Remember those posts in that other thread, pretending that hockey doesn't have a culture problem? I do. Idiocy, it isn't just confined to reddit.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Don't be.

"Hockey Canada values our relationship with Scotiabank, and we both respect and understand their decision regarding their sponsorship. As we said to the Members of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage last week, Hockey Canada is on a journey to change the culture of our sport and to make it safer and more inclusive, both at the rink and in our communities. We have been on this journey for some time, but we agree that more needs to be done, and more quickly. This is a priority for our organization’s leaders, and with the work we are doing, and the changes we are planning, our intention is to ensure that Hockey Canada meets the standards that our many stakeholders have for us. Canadians will be hearing more about our actions in this regard.”

Emphasis mine. Huh, who'da thunk? Remember those posts in that other thread, pretending that hockey doesn't have a culture problem? I do. Idiocy, it isn't just confined to reddit.

I still can't believe they wrote that. It's amazing. It's 2022 and they want a slap on the back for discovering sexual assault is bad.

 

[I am toxic]

I still can't believe they wrote that. It's amazing. It's 2022 and they want a slap on the back for discovering sexual assault is bad.

They haven't realized sexual assault is bad. They just re-realized that getting caught covering up sexual assault is bad.

They will cover up the next one twice as hard.

Did I say will? I meant to say they no doubt already have.

 

[Quinton Byfield]

Why are the players not liable in this scenario? Most companies don't care and want things to go away. You lose a lot more money in PR and damages than you do paying something out, as evidenced by all the sponsors drying up. In this case they got hit with both sticks.

Hockey Canada is not a company, it is a non-profit organization. There's a difference. How they allocate their funds is important. Right now, there is an investigation into whether HC used public funding to settle the lawsuit, because again, non-profits operate differently.

There is no liability on Hockey Canada to settle or pay someone out because junior hockey players aren't in the employ of HC. In fact, Ontario made it a point that junior players are specifically not employed in any respect, that they play "for the love of the game." Which is a fancy way of denying them from any labor rights.

The point is, Hockey Canada settled the sexual assault lawsuit, not because they had vicarious liability to their hockey players under their programs, but to protect their own reputations. The analogy of 'I got wasted driving company equipment and of course my company settled' isn't the right one to make here.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

There is no liability on Hockey Canada to settle or pay someone out because junior hockey players aren't in the employ of HC.

But the assault happened at a Hockey Canada event. Therefore, liability. If it happened at the CHL Prospects game, no liability.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

So I am guessing the players involved are going to come out at some point right? Feels like a ticking time bomb? Or is there no legal way the names are released?

 

[Amadeus]

Some pretty solid players were on Team Canada's roster including Cale Makar, Drake Batherson, Alex Formenton and Robert Thomas.

 

[MXD]

So I am guessing the players involved are going to come out at some point right? Feels like a ticking time bomb? Or is there no legal way the names are released?

If Hockey Canada knows which players are involved, they can absolutely disclose it.

 

[BadgerBruce]

The more successful Hockey Canada and other governing bodies are at investigating alleged sexual assaults and maltreatment more broadly, the more they open themselves up to lawsuits. At the extreme end, we have the bankrupt USA Gymnastics: USA Gymnastics | Bankruptcy Timeline

This Catch-22 situation (do what’s right and become financially ruined) is precisely why Hockey Canada is trying so hard to change the narrative from “What the Hell did you do!” to “we commit to building a culture where maltreatment does not occur.”

Unfortunately (in my view), the various corporate sponsors withdrawing their financial support are buying into this strategically changed narrative, and they’re all saying in one way or another that they need to see Hockey Canada take concrete steps to “change the culture” before they’ll consider restoring their sponsorship dollars.

But an enhanced investment by Hockey Canada in educational programs isn’t, in my view, addressing the core issues of accountability and responsibility for an alleged gang rape in 2018. Enhanced player education in the future doesn’t mean Hockey Canada will cease to shield itself and its members (players) from the legal and financial consequences of their (alleged) actions. I want to be as clear as the bright blue sky here: modernizing player codes of conduct and creating mandatory educational programming for every kid coming up in the system today is NOT a remedy for the alleged atrocities that occurred in 2018.

I’m hearing loud and clear the posters in this thread who say that Hockey Canada called the police, hired a law firm to investigate, and ultimately paid out a financial settlement to the alleged victim, and that these three actions constitute taking full responsibility/ accountability. Case is closed, let’s all look to the future.

With respect, that’s the narrative Hockey Canada’s crisis management firm wants Canadians to embrace. So don’t be surprised to hear a well-timed Hockey Canada announcement about some new “best in class,” multi-million dollar investment in education and training. Again, that’s part of the strategy to convince everyone that the FUTURE is the real issue, and Hockey Canada’s got that covered.

Here’s the problem: the plaintiff filed suit in an Ontario court. The Statement of Claim named 10 defendants: Hockey Canada, the Canadian Hockey League, and 8 “John Doe” players. Clearly, the plaintiff was prepared to identify the 8 John Does at trial.

THIS is when Hockey Canada chose to step in.

THIS is when they chose to independently negotiate a settlement on behalf of all 10 defendants, and seal the whole thing up tightly with NDAs all around.

THAT’s the rotting fish we are all nauseated to smell. THAT’S what we want Hockey Canada to come clean about. The organization stands accused of spearheading and funding a legal settlement designed to forevermore shield the Canadian Hockey League and 8 players from any liability for their alleged misconduct.

New Hockey Canada codes of conduct and new age educational programming moving forward? Is that what the Canadian public wants at this very moment?

Classic misdirection reasonably intelligent people should be able to see right through.

 

[Blender]

The more successful Hockey Canada and other governing bodies are at investigating alleged sexual assaults and maltreatment more broadly, the more they open themselves up to lawsuits. At the extreme end, we have the bankrupt USA Gymnastics: USA Gymnastics | Bankruptcy Timeline

This Catch-22 situation (do what’s right and become financially ruined) is precisely why Hockey Canada is trying so hard to change the narrative from “What the Hell did you do!” to “we commit to building a culture where maltreatment does not occur.”

Unfortunately (in my view), the various corporate sponsors withdrawing their financial support are buying into this strategically changed narrative, and they’re all saying in one way or another that they need to see Hockey Canada take concrete steps to “change the culture” before they’ll consider restoring their sponsorship dollars.

But an enhanced investment by Hockey Canada in educational programs isn’t, in my view, addressing the core issues of accountability and responsibility for an alleged gang rape in 2018. Enhanced player education in the future doesn’t mean Hockey Canada will cease to shield itself and its members (players) from the legal and financial consequences of their (alleged) actions. I want to be as clear as the bright blue sky here: modernizing player codes of conduct and creating mandatory educational programming for every kid coming up in the system today is NOT a remedy for the alleged atrocities that occurred in 2018.

I’m hearing loud and clear the posters in this thread who say that Hockey Canada called the police, hired a law firm to investigate, and ultimately paid out a financial settlement to the alleged victim, and that these three actions constitute taking full responsibility/ accountability. Case is closed, let’s all look to the future.

With respect, that’s the narrative Hockey Canada’s crisis management firm wants Canadians to embrace. So don’t be surprised to hear a well-timed Hockey Canada announcement about some new “best in class,” multi-million dollar investment in education and training. Again, that’s part of the strategy to convince everyone that the FUTURE is the real issue, and Hockey Canada’s got that covered.

Here’s the problem: the plaintiff filed suit in an Ontario court. The Statement of Claim named 10 defendants: Hockey Canada, the Canadian Hockey League, and 8 “John Doe” players. Clearly, the plaintiff was prepared to identify the 8 John Does at trial.

THIS is when Hockey Canada chose to step in.

THIS is when they chose to independently negotiate a settlement on behalf of all 10 defendants, and seal the whole thing up tightly with NDAs all around.

THAT’s the rotting fish we are all nauseated to smell. THAT’S what we want Hockey Canada to come clean about. The organization stands accused of spearheading and funding a legal settlement designed to forevermore shield the Canadian Hockey League and 8 players from any liability for their alleged misconduct.

New Hockey Canada codes of conduct and new age educational programming moving forward? Is that what the Canadian public wants at this very moment?

Classic misdirection reasonably intelligent people should be able to see right through.

You have this pretty backwards. The liability of an organization like USA Gymnastics comes from them not having proper policies to deal with the sexual abuse, and doing about everything they could to cover it up and let the people accountable off the hook. An organization that acts properly and swiftly to address these situations based on having sound policies and protections in place will not open themselves up to liability, the issue is most of these sports organizations don't do any of this.

 

[Fulham]

Once the names are leaked/released which is inevitable at this point what should occur to the active players? Technically this is a settled legal matter, however what punishment should be suffice?

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Once the names are leaked/released which is inevitable at this point what should occur to the active players? Technically this is a settled legal matter, however what punishment should be suffice?

I think there is still a reasonable probability that the names will not be leaked. At least, not during these players' career. The 8 rapists benefit from immense backing, financial ressources, and connections everywhere. Not to mention many of them are probably extrenely profitable assets.

Notice that most of the debate, in the media and political arena, is surgically targetting Hockey Canada and conveniently points the finger at old guys who are nearing retirement, like Renney. It's almost as if a team Canada logo magically raped the victim instead of actual people.

 

[shaner82]

Once the names are leaked/released which is inevitable at this point what should occur to the active players? Technically this is a settled legal matter, however what punishment should be suffice?

It's not inevitable if the complainant never disclosed the names to anyone.
If they are released, what should happen is a formal investigation by the NHL. Hire a consulting company that specializes in this stuff if necessary. Compel them to participate.

Go from there.

I think there is still a reasonable probability that the names will not be leaked. At least, not during these players' career. The 8 rapists benefit from immense backing, financial ressources, and connections everywhere. Not to mention many of them are probably extrenely profitable assets.

Notice that most of the debate, in the media and political arena, is surgically targetting Hockey Canada and conveniently points the finger at old guys who are nearing retirement, like Renney. It's almost as if a team Canada logo magically raped the victim instead of actual people.

Serious question, do we know that she was raped? Has there ever been any details released about what happened?

 

[SaltNPeca]

...
Serious question, do we know that she was raped? Has there ever been any details released about what happened?

The woman’s statement outlined in her lawsuit are available as well as further statements in related court papers. Note: Allegations not proven in court, but recorded.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Serious question, do we know that she was raped? Has there ever been any details released about what happened?

Some of the reports (first coming from TSN) are pretty eloquent, and the victim's lawyer confirms the large settlement.

It's pretty obvious this girl was intimidated into not talking and then her silence was bought with several million dollars in the hope this would go away. Some of the details, like Renney pretending that HC does not know the identity of the 8 players, are very clearly lies. Something of this magnitude is well known by the team and by HC, and it has been known for years.

The only way to make sure we learn more about this is to keep talking about it and demand more information and concrete action. If there is enough pressure, if this story doesn't go away before the next season, there is a chance this is discussed more extensively, that we will learn more and that not only will these individuals be held accountavle but more importantly, that we will see changes in the ugly, toxic culture surrounding this otherwise beautiful sport.