Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault) PART 2

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Bocephus86

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This depends on the reasoning for the employer being unwilling to hire you.

For example, although your surname is not a protected circumstance for employment, if you were told that you were ineligible to be hired for a company because your last name is Hitler, or Putin, or BinLaden, then you would have a slam-dunk case against that company in a Charter violation claim.

Similarly, not being hired because you were employed by Enron in the past and some of your colleagues were accused of and convicted of crimes, would itself be a breach of your Charter rights.
Let's say I'm looking to hire an accountant. I get a great resume from someone, but then when doing due-diligence I find out they worked at an accouting firm that was accused of serious financial crimes, and that they refused to cooperate with the investigation. In this case ultimately there was no legal finding.

Do I have to hire this person?
 

pcruz

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Let's say I'm looking to hire an accountant. I get a great resume from someone, but then when doing due-diligence I find out they worked at an accouting firm that was accused of serious financial crimes, and that they refused to cooperate with the investigation. In this case ultimately there was no legal finding.

Do I have to hire this person?
No.

If you make it clear to anyone else that the reason you're not hiring this person is because of this finding, then you're breaking the law.

Of course, you'll only get punished for it if you were dumb enough to explain it to the applicant.
 

pcruz

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I had a friend who played for a WHL team.

One of the hazing rituals was to see how far they could stick an anal sex toy. My friend could not walk properly for a week, the entire team laughed at him when he walked. It was brutal. The coach was complicit in it. The one person you should trust
Sounds to me, like those people should have, let me copy and paste the post I made, that you quoted:

Hazing where the safety of others is put into question should be punished the same way that same action would be punished if it were not in a hazing environment.

Why did your friend go along with this though? Was the toy inserted into him by the others, or was it self-inflicted?
Why did he not report this to the authorities?
Seems like some sort of sexual abuse, this does.
 

Angry Little Elf

My wife came back
Apr 9, 2012
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Sounds to me, like those people should have, let me copy and paste the post I made, that you quoted:

Hazing where the safety of others is put into question should be punished the same way that same action would be punished if it were not in a hazing environment.

Why did your friend go along with this though? Was the toy inserted into him by the others, or was it self-inflicted?
Why did he not report this to the authorities?
Seems like some sort of sexual abuse, this does.
Teenagers are desperate to fit in with their peer group. I remember doing stupid stuff to fit in with my group. Somethings I regret. The world is not as cut and dry as you think it is. Peer pressure is huge
 
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pcruz

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Prejudice is when you pre-judge someone without cause to do so.

If your entire decision to not hire someone is because of a circumstance that the person has no control over, and nothing that he/she has done wrong, then you're acting in a prejudiced manner.

That person may or may not have done anything wrong, but your decision to not hire him/her was determined solely by your conviction that there was wrongdoing without confirmation.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
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Where in the f*** did you read this?

Please show me.

Of course hazing happens.

It's a human thing where people will introduce new members into a group with some sort of special treatment.

Pro players introduce rookie call-ups by making them skate around in warm-ups alone.

Hazing where the safety of others is put into question should be punished the same way that same action would be punished if it were not in a hazing environment. For example, forcing someone to go for a hike naked in the winter, dive to the bottom of the deep end of a pool fully clothed, cross a freeway at night, etc.

Hazing where rookies are made to pay for luxurious dinners for the older players is just as despicable.


Hazing in itself is not a bad thing, as it can be a quirky and funny way to break the ice with new members of a social group.
There should be some sort of leadership group in place to not allow hazing incidents to get out of hand or to put the targets in any sort of trouble or danger.
Right there.
 

PostBradMalone

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Mar 19, 2022
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No.

If you make it clear to anyone else that the reason you're not hiring this person is because of this finding, then you're breaking the law.

Of course, you'll only get punished for it if you were dumb enough to explain it to the applicant.

What law is being broken here?

Prejudice is when you pre-judge someone without cause to do so.

If your entire decision to not hire someone is because of a circumstance that the person has no control over, and nothing that he/she has done wrong, then you're acting in a prejudiced manner.

That person may or may not have done anything wrong, but your decision to not hire him/her was determined solely by your conviction that there was wrongdoing without confirmation.

This is absolutely not a protected class under the Charter or CHRA.
 

canucksfan

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Teenagers are desperate to fit in with their peer group. I remember doing stupid stuff to fit in with my group. Somethings I regret. The world is not as cut and dry as you think it is. Peer pressure is huge

Let's not forget the pressure a lot of these kids face to succeed in hockey. Many families spend a fortune on their children playing hockey. Many leave home at a young age and the only 'parent' they have is their coach. Many coaches let incidents like you described, happen. The victims of hazing have few options to turn to.

The whole system is f***ed!
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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Sounds to me, like those people should have, let me copy and paste the post I made, that you quoted:

Hazing where the safety of others is put into question should be punished the same way that same action would be punished if it were not in a hazing environment.

Why did your friend go along with this though? Was the toy inserted into him by the others, or was it self-inflicted?
Why did he not report this to the authorities?

Seems like some sort of sexual abuse, this does.
Why are you blaming the victim?

In many instances, players who do not participate in a hazing ritual or "rat" them out to higher-ups are considered to be "troublemakers" with "attitude issues" because they are not "fer da boyz". So now they are at the risk of retaliation and having their own hockey playing future.

Even if they do report it, will the adults in charge punish the accusers? What is the ones perpetrating the hazing are the best players on the team? Will a coach, whose future depends on wins and losses, suspend those players or will they come after you for "making their life more difficult"? Maybe they'll think back to their own experiences in the 1980s and think that this is nothing compared to what they went through when things were totally unregulated and you should just "toughen up" and deal... thus the cycle continuing on.
 

Bocephus86

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Mar 2, 2011
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Prejudice is when you pre-judge someone without cause to do so.

If your entire decision to not hire someone is because of a circumstance that the person has no control over, and nothing that he/she has done wrong, then you're acting in a prejudiced manner.

That person may or may not have done anything wrong, but your decision to not hire him/her was determined solely by your conviction that there was wrongdoing without confirmation.
If an organization opts to not hire you because of your sex, sexual orientation, marriage status, race, ethnicity, religion, health, etc - you have all the ammunition available to sue the organization for denying you the opportunity to be hired based on a violation of your Charter Rights.

Where is suspected unethical behavior listed here?
 

pcruz

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Teenagers are desperate to fit in with their peer group. I remember doing stupid stuff to fit in with my group. Somethings I regret. The world is not as cut and dry as you think it is. Peer pressure is huge

Good Lord, what world did I grow up in?

I was never asked to shove something up my ass, or to rape anyone, or commit any crimes while growing up in a large city.

I never pressured anyone to do anything of the sort either.

Maybe because I was taught to have respect for myself and to fear being punished for any possible criminal activity, I didn't do it.
Hell, multiple times I either stayed the night or called my parents to pick me up when it was obvious I was past the point where I shouldn't be driving.

How much fun is it when you have a car, and your parents have to come pick you up and then bring you back to pick up the car the next day, with your friends around to witness it all?
 

I am toxic

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No, "trauma is trauma" is not accurate. There are absolutely varying types and levels of trauma based on the cause and how they affect individuals. There is a reason why sexual trauma is not treated in the same way as trauma from something like an accident.

Yet again, you latched onto the least meaningful part of the comment and proceeded to disregard everything else. You're basically saying 'if I'm courageous enough to go through court trials as a result from an accident that happened to me, then women who have possibly been raped should be able to do the same".


uhhh WHAT??? By definition, Hazing is in itself a bad thing. It is literally a crime with many states having anti-hazing laws. For someone who was so intent on telling me earlier "those words have meanings" you don't seem to be paying much attention to the ones you're using in almost any of your comments.

After trying to admonish me, you go on saying hazing isn't a bad thing and that a rookie having to foot the bill for dinner is 'just as despicable' as kids being sexually assaulted or forced into situations where it's reasonably likely they could die...

This is why I refer to the victim/survivor going through the legal process as being re-raped, rather than re-traumatized.

One hockey game, I took a shot to the foot and it really hurt. Then later in the game I got slashed there. Hurt even more. My foot was re-traumatized. In both instances, there was no intent to injure me, it was purely accidental.

In my view, a rape is a deliberate and malevolent violation of a person by another person or persons.

Also in my view, the legal process as it currently stands demands a deliberate and malevolent violation (character assassination) of a person (victim/survivor) by another person or persons (defense lawyers; also prosecution or plaintiff lawyers are forced to do the same to the victim/survivor, to coach the witness to be prepared to be deliberately and malignly violated all over again by supposed "honourable" people - one can imagine the joy a victim/survivor experiences, of being re-raped by the people who are supposedly on the victim/survivor's side, just to prepare them to get re-re-raped by defense counsel). I know, the prosecution is not doing it malevolently. I just wanted to get re-re-rape on record. My point stands, as the victim is not going to be splitting hairs as to malevolency at this stage of the multiple deliberate violations.

"Re-traumatized" implies that the violation of the victim/survivor by the legal process as it currently stands is an unavoidable byproduct of our legal system without malice - nay, it is benign - and hides the fact that it is another deliberate and malign violation of their person, their emotional well-being.

As a wise poster wrote, those words have meaning.
 
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pcruz

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Why are you blaming the victim?

In many instances, players who do not participate in a hazing ritual or "rat" them out to higher-ups are considered to be "troublemakers" with "attitude issues" because they are not "fer da boyz". So now they are at the risk of retaliation and having their own hockey playing future.

Even if they do report it, will the adults in charge punish the accusers? What is the ones perpetrating the hazing are the best players on the team? Will a coach, whose future depends on wins and losses, suspend those players or will they come after you for "making their life more difficult"? Maybe they'll think back to their own experiences in the 1980s and think that this is nothing compared to what they went through when things were totally unregulated and you should just "toughen up" and deal... thus the cycle continuing on.

Victim blaming is not what you think it is:

Victim blaming is when you claim that a woman was asking to be raped because of the clothes she wore.

Asking why someone would sexually degrade themselves in front of others, not forcibly, and then not report that act to the authorities is not blaming.
The answer to that kind of peer pressure is "Go f*** yourselves, I'm not shoving anything up anywhere".
 

DaveMatthew

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Interesting quote considering the prevailing narrative is that Hockey Canada was using this fund to settle lawsuits in which male players were accused of assaulting young women.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
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So, which of those 3 examples is:

Sexual Assault
Reasonably likely to die
Making someone strip naked, especially in front of others, is sexual assault. Making them do so in winter increases the danger immensely, especially in areas with extremely cold winters (such as a country like Canada, where these things are taking place.)

Making someone swim to the bottom of a deep pool with their cloths on could reasonably result in death.

Making someone cross a freeway at night time also could reasonably result in death. An NFL player literally just died a few months ago walking on a highway at night.
 

pcruz

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Making someone strip naked, especially in front of others, is sexual assault. Making them do so in winter increases the danger immensely, especially in areas with extremely cold winters (such as a country like Canada, where these things are taking place.)

Making someone swim to the bottom of a deep pool with their cloths on could reasonably result in death.

Making someone cross a freeway at night time also could reasonably result in death. An NFL player literally just died a few months ago walking on a highway at night.

I have a solution for this type of hazing:

Don't f***ing Do It
Go to the cops and report it, and then don't do it.

You make it seem like there is no alternative to blindly following these kinds of requests.

"They're going to make fun of me if I don't do this stupid and potentially criminal act where I may hurt myself, or end up in jail"....yes that is a strong reason for doing such a thing.
 

Zippity

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Feb 3, 2013
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Hockey Canada says there have been 12 uninsured abuse claims settled worth a collective $1.3M. One perpetrator was connected to four of those claims and accounts for $1M in settlements, HC said.

Am I reading this correctly? One person is connect to 4 different claims. WOW
but nothing criminal?
 

DaveMatthew

Bring in Peter
Apr 13, 2005
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"They're going to make fun of me if I don't do this stupid and potentially criminal act where I may hurt myself, or end up in jail"....yes that is a strong reason for doing such a thing.

You forget that the kids involved in these incidents are often 15 or 16 years old. Applying logic to the situation doesn't happen.

Hockey Canada says there have been 12 uninsured abuse claims settled worth a collective $1.3M. One perpetrator was connected to four of those claims and accounts for $1M in settlements, HC said.

Am I reading this correctly? One person is connect to 4 different claims. WOW
but nothing criminal?

There's not enough information to know.

It could have, for example, been 4 players who filed civil suits alleging that their coach abused them. That coach could have been criminally prosecuted as well.

The narrative is that these settlements are for players assaulting women. But that doesn't seem to be the case, most of the time. It was mentioned today that 90% of sexual abuse claims that Hockey Canada receives are ones in which a player is a victim.
 
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AzHawk

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Dec 20, 2015
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I have a solution for this type of hazing:

Don't f***ing Do It
Go to the cops and report it, and then don't do it.

You make it seem like there is no alternative to blindly following these kinds of requests.

"They're going to make fun of me if I don't do this stupid and potentially criminal act where I may hurt myself, or end up in jail"....yes that is a strong reason for doing such a thing.

wow why didn't anyone think of that until now?
 

Uncle Rotter

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May 11, 2010
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Interesting quote considering the prevailing narrative is that Hockey Canada was using this fund to settle lawsuits in which male players were accused of assaulting young women.

The only times Hockey Canada would have liability for players would be at Hockey Canada events. Opportunities for liability for coaches and administrators would be greater.
 
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