Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault) PART 2

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ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
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You're constantly in here reading them so isn't that worse?

Some people consider this to be the most important story in the sport right now.
I'm not. When I do come here, to see if something is new, I end up skipping over post after post after post because it's the same posters being angry at the world. I guess that's why the thread has an "Ignore" button.

Oh well... Enjoy your thread. I'm done.
 
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Bocephus86

Registered User
Mar 2, 2011
6,381
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No, it's not. The 10 are self important posters who love to hear themselves talk and who need to go outside and swim or walk or make a friend or do some charitable work with their time.
Dude just walk away from this thread. It's ridiculous that you've posted multiple awful posts in this thread, ask for it to be closed, yet state the above.

Take your own advice and let other people discuss serious systemic matters.
 

Isles72

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
4,700
571
Canada
I'm not. When I do come here, to see if something is new, I end up skipping over post after post after post because it's the same posters being angry at the world. I guess that's why the thread has an "Ignore" button.

Oh well... Enjoy your thread. I'm done.
I followed Westhead on twitter a few days ago . Probably the best way to get any breaking news on the subject instead of here
 

I am toxic

. . . even in small doses
Oct 24, 2014
9,741
15,569
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IIHF to look into Hockey Canada cases


Now the IIHF is having an inquiry into it

IIFH has known about this for at least two months.

They deliberately made the announcement on a Friday afternoon knowing that is where announcements go to be buried.

Where is the announcement regarding the 2003 team, into which a police investigation has been launched in Halifax?

They indicate they will be conducting the investigation of the 2018 matter using the IIHF Abuse and Harassment Code, which completely lacks transparency (just take a look at section 4.4.1 and explain to me how we could reasonably expect to learn anything from the IIHF without the most intense public pressure, government pressure and sponsor pressure), and was designed primarily to go after abusers, not institutionalized protection of abuse.

Sure, there is likely a prima facie case that there was a "violation" as per section 3.1 (d) "Sexual harassment – means any unwanted and unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature, whether verbal, non-verbal or physical. Sexual harassment can take the form of sexual abuse" based on the text messages alone, without even getting into the specifics of sections 3.1 (a) and (e) relating to issues of confinement and sexual abuse. In that case it is clear that Hockey Canada would be committed a "violation" themselves as per section 6 (g) Complicity, i.e. authorizing, knowingly assisting, causing, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of intentional complicity causing a violation of this Code; and quite possible 6 (h) as well.

All this has been known for two months. That it took the IIHF this much bad publicity and the official opposition and many many others calling for the removal of the leadership of Hockey Canada shows how little that hockey people can be trusted to investigate hockey people. Did I say little? Wow, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. I meant to write so microsopically miniscule that one would need an electron microscope to detect it.

Remember the allegations of a videotape of gang rape involving the 2003 team? Where it was reported the people didn't come forward for almost two decades, that the copy of the alleged tape was destroyed? Does that look like it would fit the criteria mentioned above? Ya think? And yet nothing but silence from the IIHF.

The leadership at IIHF appears to be no different than the leadership at Hockey Canada - code of silence, do the barest of minimum when the spotlight is shone on their abhorrent behaviour, and hope the problem goes away the next news cycle.

No wonder we have a culture problem in hockey with its toxic code of silence, enabling, blacklisting, hazing, misogyny, racism, homophobia etc. decades after it should have been properly addressed.

And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never shared
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence

"Fools" said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
 
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I am toxic

. . . even in small doses
Oct 24, 2014
9,741
15,569
Vancouver

One month later, police laid more than 30 additional charges against Jones because more victims came forward to police after hearing about the first case in the media.

There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Unfortunately, the lesson that Hockey Canada learned was to cover things up twice as hard.
 

Zippity

Registered User
Feb 3, 2013
2,070
2,017
IIFH has known about this for at least two months.

They deliberately made the announcement on a Friday afternoon knowing that is where announcements go to be buried.

Where is the announcement regarding the 2003 team, into which a police investigation has been launched in Halifax?

They indicate they will be conducting the investigation of the 2018 matter using the IIHF Abuse and Harassment Code, which completely lacks transparency (just take a look at section 4.4.1 and explain to me how we could reasonably expect to learn anything from the IIHF without the most intense public pressure, government pressure and sponsor pressure), and was designed primarily to go after abusers, not institutionalized protection of abuse.

Sure, there is likely a prima facie case that there was a "violation" as per section 3.1 (d) "Sexual harassment – means any unwanted and unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature, whether verbal, non-verbal or physical. Sexual harassment can take the form of sexual abuse" based on the text messages alone, without even getting into the specifics of sections 3.1 (a) and (e) relating to issues of confinement and sexual abuse. In that case it is clear that Hockey Canada would be committed a "violation" themselves as per section 6 (g) Complicity, i.e. authorizing, knowingly assisting, causing, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of intentional complicity causing a violation of this Code; and quite possible 6 (h) as well.

All this has been known for two months. That it took the IIHF this much bad publicity and the official opposition and many many others calling for the removal of the leadership of Hockey Canada shows how little that hockey people can be trusted to investigate hockey people. Did I say little? Wow, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. I meant to write so microsopically miniscule that one would need an electron microscope to detect it.

Remember the allegations of a videotape of gang rape involving the 2003 team? Where it was reported the people didn't come forward for almost two decades, that the copy of the alleged tape was destroyed? Does that look like it would fit the criteria mentioned above? Ya think? And yet nothing but silence from the IIHF.

The leadership at IIHF appears to be no different than the leadership at Hockey Canada - code of silence, do the barest of minimum when the spotlight is shone on their abhorrent behaviour, and hope the problem goes away the next news cycle.

No wonder we have a culture problem in hockey with its toxic code of silence, enabling, blacklisting, hazing, misogyny, racism, homophobia etc. decades after it should have been properly addressed.

And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never shared
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence

"Fools" said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
Bob Nicholson doing the investigation?
 
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Silky Johnson

I wish you all the bad things in life.
Mar 9, 2015
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Pranking is one thing, hazing is another. Thing I’ve noticed about hazing in my personal life is the people who get hazed never really become part of the group that did the hazing. The hazing group is a closed group.
Not a proponent of Hazing but I have to disagree. I got hazed a couple times in my life but fought back as hard as I could. In both cases I lost but gained the respect of those hazing me as I f#%ked up a couple of them. Was instantly higher status than other rookies despite the beating I took.

That said, I didn't like it and didn't do it to others.
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
56,412
94,295
Vancouver, BC
The unnamed person who had 4 sexual assault settlements totally over a $ 1 million is former coach Kelly Jones. He is either out of prison right now or will later this year.




Reading between the lines, when you total these settlements and the Graham James settlements from 1998, that's pretty much the total that has been paid out by Hockey Canada.

The 2018 settlement would thus have been the first involving players.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
21,863
8,434
San Francisco
Vancouver sports radio had an author named Laura Robinson whose been writing about these issues for a while. She brought up a few things that resonated with me:

1 - The similarities between the egregious rookie hazings and the sexual assaults (gang-rapey, several-on-one, usually filmed with intent to humiliate, etc) as evidence of its pervasiveness throughout hockey culture.
2 - Part of the reason of the power imbalance is due to the fact that they get to play in purpose-build arenas, frequently the most impressive buildings their community, and typically for exclusive use by a single gender.

Beyond tearing down Hockey Canada, the entire national system of junior hockey is f***ed IMO. Let's replace it with school-based teams like the US does, where we can Title IX it for gender equity and keep a closer eye on things.
 

Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
7,678
1,953
I do think the CHL system is the core of this problem and likely needs to be abolished if this problem is ever going to be fixed.

Taking young boys out of their home at 15/16, sending them to live in usually a small town away from their families and living 24/7 at the rink with barely any contact with the normal social situations teenagers go through likely is a serious issue with their socialisation. It reminds me of Goffman’s total institution. Hazing, abuse, and misogyny become normalised and the cycle repeats itself.

I think the entire junior system needs to be abolished in its current form.
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
32,812
6,537
Edmonton
I do think the CHL system is the core of this problem and likely needs to be abolished if this problem is ever going to be fixed.

Taking young boys out of their home at 15/16, sending them to live in usually a small town away from their families and living 24/7 at the rink with barely any contact with the normal social situations teenagers go through likely is a serious issue with their socialisation. It reminds me of Goffman’s total institution. Hazing, abuse, and misogyny become normalised and the cycle repeats itself.

I think the entire junior system needs to be abolished in its current form.

What social situations are they removed from? They go to school.

It's the social situation they're put in that's the problem. Way too many like-minded boys in the same room and the only adults around WERE them 20 years ago.

I don't see how the billet system changes in Junior. The only way a league can work is with the distribution of talent. Constant oversight is probably the answer. Hockey Canada should have non-hockey people looking over their shoulders forever.
 

Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
7,678
1,953
What social situations are they removed from? They go to school.

It's the social situation they're put in that's the problem. Way too many like-minded boys in the same room and the only adults around WERE them 20 years ago.

I don't see how the billet system changes in Junior. The only way a league can work is with the distribution of talent. Constant oversight is probably the answer. Hockey Canada should have non-hockey people looking over their shoulders forever.
They’re also on the road for most of the school year and many of them opt out to do home schooling.

Being away from their parents and families at that age and replacing it with the “team” is a significant social change.
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
32,812
6,537
Edmonton
They’re also on the road for most of the school year and many of them opt out to do home schooling.

Being away from their parents and families at that age and replacing it with the “team” is a significant social change.

I guess. But I still think that having 23 same-ish boys in the same room together all of the time is likely the situation that leads to sexual assault, hazing, bullying, etc. Not so much that Mom and Dad are being replaced as primary caregivers by a different Mom and Dad.
 
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Walkingthroughforest

I got the worst ******* attorneys
Aug 19, 2007
7,678
1,953
I guess. But I still think that having 23 same-ish boys in the same room together all of the time is likely the situation that leads to sexual assault, hazing, bullying, etc. Not so much that Mom and Dad are being replaced as primary caregivers by a different Mom and Dad.
I think that’s the core of the problem. You take them away from home and suddenly they're in a situation where it’s not safe the speak up or the behaviour is normalised. I think a billet family would be more likely to be compliant with hazing and toxic behaviours, as they’ve dealt with hockey boys for years, as opposed to their actual families.

I also think having them on the road at all and missing that much school shouldn’t be allowed. We get great hockey players that way but we are now starting to understand the cost.
 
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