Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault) PART 2

[Bileur]

Hazing is a part of sports, specifically higher levels. Sometimes kids go too far with it, but its part of the initiation process and gets rookies/new guys accepted into the group.

The best way to accept someone into a group is to simply to accept them into a group. Hazing or teasing them accomplishes nothing towards building a stronger team.

Why the Bruins don’t haze the ‘first-year players’

Captain Zdeno Chara was hazed when he was a young player. He has since resolved to change the way new arrivals like Cam Hughes are treated.

theathletic.com

 

[MXD]

Hazing is a part of sports, specifically higher levels. Sometimes kids go too far with it, but its part of the initiation process and gets rookies/new guys accepted into the group.

One milimeter up in there is one milimeter too far.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Depends on the job, high security clearance yeah, most cases no. But that's a terrible comparison.

What they'd be denied is either
- a high publicity job denied because due to their association with a major scandal they are not publicly viable
-a high sensitivity job involving including positions of power over vulnerable populations denied due to reasonable suspicion that they cannot be trusted with said power
-a job with an organization that they were previously members of, that does not trust them to follow either/both of the organizational code of conduct or transparency guidelines due to their unwillingness to co-operate in internal investigations into wrongdoing

Any 1 would be reasonable, all potentially apply.

- It's not a terrible comparison. I would prefer to have my cell phone searched than be forced to testify before a parliamentary committee. Dunno about you.

- All potentially apply only if there's proof the person is involved or tainted. Currently, there's none. It's just people not wanting to be dragged before a committee.

Well since its federal why not have a public hearing that isnt done by lawyers hired to protect HC. Then the 9 players have no choice and they don’t have to worry about not being able to coach or ref later in life. Everybody gets what they want right?

Personally, if there's proof or suspicion about any of these 9 holdouts, I would prefer it was handled by the police, not by a lawyer hired by HC.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about telling someone they cannot play for TC or in an HC-sanctioned event lol.

I mean you took every bit of context out.

 

[I am toxic]

I believe this is from the editorial board of the Toronto Sun, meaning the consensus of the editors, as opposed to a single individual's opinion, correct me if I am wrong:

Yet with all of the discussion and revelations about an organization besieged by sexual assault and sexual harassment allegations, a lot of players and parents are probably wondering whether the organization and its leadership really has any moral authority remaining.

We believe they do not. They need a major shake-up, either by replacing the top individuals or even going beyond that and completely changing the organization.

As we can see from St-Onge's comments and members of the House committee, it is crystal clear that Hockey Canada will not be receiving a dime of federal money as long as this management team - and quite likely the Board as well - remain in place.

Smith's decision to stay on, and the Board not removing him, will cost millions annually towards developing hockey for kids. In addition of course to the millions that was diverted from kids' mandatory registration fees to fund a hush money account.

Decades of protecting the code of silence that enables rapists, hazing and all sorts of despicable behaviour, homophobia, misogyny, racism, etc.

Disgusting cover-up of the one case we currently have details on thanks to Westhead and some other journalists like Strang, public pressure, a parliamentary probe, and sponsorship withdrawal.

A failure to properly document supposed Board approval of settlement of a claim of gang rape. Without consulting other parties involved.

Does Hockey Canada and its leadership really have any moral authority remaining?

The Sun editorial "believes" they do not.

I know they do not.

Hockey Canada. 2018 Canadian World Junior team. Code of Silence. Allegations of gang rape. Cover-up. Hush money. Kids' fees. Slush fund. Scott Smith. Glen McCurdie. Brian Cairo. Tom Renney. Henein Hutchison. Danielle Robitaille. Michael Brind'Amour. Terry Engen. Kirk Lamb. John Neville. Barry Reynard. Bobby Sahni. Andrea Skinner. Mary Ann Veroba. Goops Wooldridge. Clair Sudsbury. Legacy. Own it.

 

[Voight]

One milimeter up in there is one milimeter too far.

Agreed.

 

[DuklaNation]

Its virtually impossible for Lorenzetti not to know AIG's exposure (given his insurance experience especially. He would have asked these questions back then. Not sure their policy included 3D but this was on player's own time during a multi day event as I understood it. The coverage would likely only be during actual games, practices, etc but it depends on the policy. We don't even know if AIG had ultimate risk here anyways. Should really ask someone other than Lorenzetti, he has a possible conflict of interest (depending on how this was underwritten and which party held the risk).

Really should HC be taking on liability of players personal time? Seems questionable. Players won't participate unless they have coverage from the organization?

 

[4thline]

- It's not a terrible comparison. I would prefer to have my cell phone searched than be forced to testify before a parliamentary committee. Dunno about you.

- All potentially apply only if there's proof the person is involved or tainted. Currently, there's none. It's just people not wanting to be dragged before a committee.

They're not being forced to testify before a parliamentary committee. They've had future involvement with an organization made conditional upon cooperating with an internal investigation of a situation that happened in connection with an event held by the organization, in a premises paid for by the organization. Said cooperation requires being interview by legal council for the organization.

They all apply today. Employment law isn't a criminal court, and the charter/human rights code don't protect you from the consequences of your actions, inactions, or associations. They protect you from being discriminated against on protected grounds. Anyone that knowingly hired those players into a position of power over vulnerable populations could be exposing themselves to massive liability and said populations to threat of harm. Morally and legally you can't compel someone to do that.

 

[IslesNorway]

Hazing is a part of sports, specifically higher levels. Sometimes kids go too far with it, but its part of the initiation process and gets rookies/new guys accepted into the group.

And that makes it alright? If you can't have a group of people or a team cooperate and play together without having to haze newcomers, then you're seriously f***ed up.

That sort of attitude is the exact thing that has lead to all this crap.

 

[EpochLink]

Hazing is a part of sports, specifically higher levels. Sometimes kids go too far with it, but its part of the initiation process and gets rookies/new guys accepted into the group.

Which doesn’t make it right, hazing is bullying and it f***s up people in the mental state for years.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Hazing is a part of sports, specifically higher levels. Sometimes kids go too far with it, but its part of the initiation process and gets rookies/new guys accepted into the group.

This is so wildly archaic and myopic.

 

[theVladiator]

If you read through these pages, you'll learn that peer pressure is so strong and unbreakable that people are perfectly willing to perform illegal activities and even self-mutilation in order to fit in.

Apparently, there is a whole generation whose parents never accosted their kids with:
"If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?"

The concepts of self-preservation, self-respect, self-confidence, legality, morality, decency, self-judgement don't exist for 14-20 year olds apparently, either.

I honestly don't know what world I lived in as a teenager because I was never put in a place where I had to forego all sense of respect and decency for myself or others, or where I felt like I was forced into performing criminal activities for fear of being ridiculed. All while being too afraid of going to any authorities.

To be fair, most of the time the proverbial bridge jumping is whipped out in despair after the fact.

Also, why are you so surprised that the teenagers, still developing their moral compass and independence, are particularly vulnerable to complying to cues from authority figures and pressure from their peers? I am actually surprised you haven't known of those simple things until you have read "these pages". I mean, I am happy for you having avoided such toxic environment while growing up. But how you could avoid learning about such things existing until today (your tone implies at least middle age) is kinda mind boggling.

At the same time, the fact that those authority figures that are supposed to guide those teenagers (often separated from their families) have done nothing to stop the abuses, is somehow ok? Those who oversaw these toxic cesspools that went on ruining the kids over the course of decades, not single one of those grown ass men stood up and asked the room "guys, wtf are we doing"? That doesn't move the needle on your surprise-o-meter at all?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

They're not being forced to testify before a parliamentary committee. They've had future involvement with an organization made conditional upon cooperating with an internal investigation of a situation that happened in connection with an event held by the organization, in a premises paid for by the organization. Said cooperation requires being interview by legal council for the organization.

They all apply today. Employment law isn't a criminal court, and the charter/human rights code don't protect you from the consequences of your actions, inactions, or associations. They protect you from being discriminated against on protected grounds. Anyone that knowingly hired those players into a position of power over vulnerable populations could be exposing themselves to massive liability and said populations to threat of harm. Morally and legally you can't compel someone to do that.

- So much context missing. You guys are all doing this. It's not a vacuum and it's not like other situations. It's not "any organization", it's an organization that has a monopoly on sanctioned hockey events and employment in Canada and receives out tax dollars. Entirely different than just "an organization". And they *are* being forced...if they want to continue their career in this monopoly that you and I partially pay for.

- Employment law is almost as favourable to the individual as criminal law. You should follow it like I do as a business owner. I'd put money down any of these guys would win a huge settlement if they were denied participation in HC sanctioned employment or events. Assuming they're innocent of course.

I have no idea why these guys are refusing to testify but it's pretty clear that many in here don't like due process. I hope at least one of them was just refusing on principle so there's a giant lawsuit.

 

[jellybeans]

I think the focus on a new group and cleaning house is misguided as the new CEO wants to be held accountable and I think most of us would and should be more concerned about what happens going forward instead of being so focused on the past and the mistakes and 20/20 hindsight.

I'll be watching the WJHC as I'm a fan of hockey and believe in moving forward but others can do what they want.

I won't watch until the boys club is cleaned right out, nothing will change if these dinosaurs don't get removed it sucks for all that aren't involve but nothing will change without major changes believe me world juniors is my fav hockey but something has to change by doing nothing you support the problem and the only thing i can do is not giving them a view not buying anything related to hockey canada.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Hazing is a part of sports, specifically higher levels. Sometimes kids go too far with it, but its part of the initiation process and gets rookies/new guys accepted into the group.

True. The team veterans were made to suffer the appalling indignities we've all read about, so believe that new players have to "earn" their way onto the team in the same way, and the cycle continues.

This is the toxic hockey "culture" that needs to be eliminated from the sport. Nobody said it would be easy.

 

[PostBradMalone]

- Employment law is almost as favourable to the individual as criminal law. You should follow it like I do as a business owner. I'd put money down any of these guys would win a huge settlement if they were denied participation in HC sanctioned employment or events. Assuming they're innocent of course.

Do it, please!

 

[Fixxer]

I'm happy about what is happening to Hockey Canada. I think this country's thought they were so above everything. Better goalies emerge in other countries. Canada is slowly becoming more bland in temrs of talent, where Eutopean countries are moving forward. A real needed reality check for Team Canada. Sorry about the girl, very sorry, but if there was less p0rn and such online, teens wouldn't have such ideas. In fact, p0rn is not censored fro mthe web because it profits some people. A sad society, but Hockey Canada did need a reality check and got it the hard way. Great!

 

[Colezuki]

Which doesn’t make it right, hazing is bullying and it f***s up people in the mental state for years.

Not that I disagree on a broad level, but it depends on the extent. I played university rugby, the extent of our "hazing" was we asked rookies to show up to our first party of the year with a piece of fruit. The rookies would overthink the shit out of it, then once they arrived we made sangria and all would laugh about what they'd bring. This is harmless and becomes a fine story for years, the shit of making people drink to much, wear diapers or any of that is where it gets out of hand.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'm happy about what is happening to Hockey Canada. I think this country's thought they were so above everything. Better goalies emerge in other countries. Canada is slowly becoming more bland in temrs of talent, where Eutopean countries are moving forward. A real needed reality check for Team Canada. Sorry about the girl, very sorry, but if there was less p0rn and such online, teens wouldn't have such ideas. In fact, p0rn is not censored fro mthe web because it profits some people. A sad society, but Hockey Canada did need a reality check and got it the hard way. Great!

I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Many normal healthy adults watch porn and they don’t think about committing any sexual assaults.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I'm happy about what is happening to Hockey Canada. I think this country's thought they were so above everything. Better goalies emerge in other countries. Canada is slowly becoming more bland in temrs of talent, where Eutopean countries are moving forward. A real needed reality check for Team Canada. Sorry about the girl, very sorry, but if there was less p0rn and such online, teens wouldn't have such ideas. In fact, p0rn is not censored fro mthe web because it profits some people. A sad society, but Hockey Canada did need a reality check and got it the hard way. Great!

I disagree with that wholeheartedly. Many normal healthy adults watch porn and they don’t think about committing any sexual assaults.

A good point, but I think the real issue here is that better goalies are emerging in other countries.
Sorry about the girl seems to be an afterthought.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

This is so wildly archaic and myopic.

When a user with the name: "I am toxic" is liking your non-toxic posts, you know you're right.

 

[inthewings]

I'm happy about what is happening to Hockey Canada. I think this country's thought they were so above everything. Better goalies emerge in other countries. Canada is slowly becoming more bland in temrs of talent, where Eutopean countries are moving forward. A real needed reality check for Team Canada. Sorry about the girl, very sorry, but if there was less p0rn and such online, teens wouldn't have such ideas. In fact, p0rn is not censored fro mthe web because it profits some people. A sad society, but Hockey Canada did need a reality check and got it the hard way. Great!

I'm surprised this needs to be said, but sexual assault predates internet porn.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Its virtually impossible for Lorenzetti not to know AIG's exposure (given his insurance experience especially. He would have asked these questions back then. Not sure their policy included 3D but this was on player's own time during a multi day event as I understood it. The coverage would likely only be during actual games, practices, etc but it depends on the policy. We don't even know if AIG had ultimate risk here anyways. Should really ask someone other than Lorenzetti, he has a possible conflict of interest (depending on how this was underwritten and which party held the risk).

Really should HC be taking on liability of players personal time? Seems questionable. Players won't participate unless they have coverage from the organization?

I’m thinking their liability rests with providing the alcohol ‘irresponsibly’ at the gala more than anything, personal time is not a thing if the company gets you hammered

 

[king89]

Nothing is going to happen to the players that did these horrendoes things, at least not to the guys that are now playing in the NHL. It would be a massive blow to the league and the guys at the top can't have that. Money talks.

 

[I am toxic]

From the Globe and Mail, Kirsty Duncan MP:

As a former minister of sport, I have zero confidence in Hockey Canada's leadership

I, on the other hand, have 100% confidence in Hockey Canada's current leadership.

I believe and am confident they will do the bare minimum to change the culture and its toxic code of silence etc that enables rape, and hazing, and homophobia, and misogyny and racism.

I believe and am confident they will continue to do their utmost to control how such complaints are handled, so that they can continue to hide as much as they can with regards to these incidents, and better yet discourage people from coming forward in the first place, knowing how they will be treated and blacklisted.

I believe and am confident that if we want to be having this same discussion two decades from now about hockey culture and its toxic code of silence etc, these are exactly the people you want leading Hockey Canada.

I have 100% confidence in them. To do the absolute bare minimum.

As an aside, has the Globe and Mail editorial board commented on whether the leadership of Hockey Canada should resign? If not, they are gutless cowards or worse.

Think about that, a national newspaper too gutless to opine on a matter of national importance involving innocent children getting raped.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Do it, please!

a) Do you live in Canada? Curious. That's where I'm talking about. Employment law is so in favour of employees/individuals is beyond belief. May be different where you are.

b) Well, I can't put any money down yet because they may be guilty. And you know, I kinda said "assuming they're not guilty". Lemme know when you know and we can talk. Are you good for a bet by the way?

People are weirdly emotional about this subject for some reason.