Can Connor McDavid break up the "big 4"?

[JackSlater]

Because Messier didn’t have stacked teams behind him or anything for a majority of his career…

Your standards are beyond ridiculous


Because over an internet screen without tone, body language, and what not….its just so easy to determine


I guess the jokes on me. Must have not been a very good joke

Maybe Stax. Players on Messier's team simply wouldn't get injured with him leading the way. Draisaitl wouldn't pull that crap for instance. When did Gretzky get injured by Suter? Once he no longer had Messier leading the way in Edmonton, and even then only Messier decided that he was done winning Cups in Edmonton.

Which flavour of Messier?

View attachment 887717

All dressed Mess, no question. Unfortunately McDavid was all mess, no Mess, hence the no Cup.

 

[MadLuke]

Nice trivia, but does anyone ever told you that even Mark Messier won 0 Messier ? That make it really impressive to win it.

 

[daver]

Pittsburgh 2009 was not very good, neither is Edmonton 2024 since we're talking Stanley Cup teams, and if the health situation of the two teams in 2024 had mirrored what Crosby found in 2009 Edmonton wins the Stanley Cup in five games. If McDavid had been more of a leader Draisaitl/Kane would have been healthy and Barkov/Forsling/random Panthers would have gotten hurt. Is it a blight on McDavid's record as a leader? I say yes! I see zero Messiers in his future!

Ah, the tried and true "what if" game.

What if Bouchard was clearly hobbled after a knee-on-knee hit from Miller in Round 2? Do the Oilers even get past the Canucks?

What if the Panthers were not a disappointing SC finalist the previous year but the clear best Cup winner since the 2005 lockout and as close to a dynastic franchise in the modern era as you can get? Do the Oilers even sniff a Game 5 let alone a Game 7?

But closer to reality, what if McDavid produced earlier in the SCF and not until it was effectively too late? Who cares that he "cemented" his legacy with what are now meaningless points? To quote Ricky Bobby, "If You Ain't First, You're Last"

The original comment was about "leadership" and "winning". It was rightly pointed out that Crosby in 2009 notably scored the first goal in 6 games, two of which opened the series. He took care of business early. And also took care of business early in his career.

McDavid may be destined to be rated higher than Crosby when it is all said and done given he has been more fortunate with injuries after his first nine seasons and that his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in which allows for gaudy numbers to impress fans. He is like Hull and Jagr, IMO, where his playoff resume, despite being lacking vs. their all-time peers, reflects his regular season level of dominance.

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

 

[daver]

He went from dominating the scoring race to being just among the best offensive players every year with a couple more smaller lead Art Rosses. Still great but I think even if McDavid’s best 4 years don’t end up quite as good, if they’re close, which I think at least ‘21 and ‘23 are, he has the chance to beat him in their next best 6-7 years or whatever, and then it becomes more of a conversation. Tons of runway to go obviously, but I think there’s an opening if he stays healthy.

Let's get the narratives straight.

From 1954/55 to 1962/63, talking offense only, Howe was arguably the best player, or, at worst, co-best with peak/prime Beliveau. He matched Beliveau in the regular season and bettered him in the playoffs in PPG. If you want to throw Cups into the mix, then that brings Crosby into this discussion.

He went from being "ungettable" in the RS from '51 to '54 to being "gettable". McDavid has only been "ungettable" in two seasons and we just saw a player almost match his peak; closer than anyone got to Howe's 52/53 season. If you want to throw McDavid's 2023 Rocket into the comparison with Kucherov's 2024 season, then that should bring McDavid's 2024 assist accomplishments records down a notch.

McDavid did hit his prime/peak earlier in age but that usually gets ignored when discussing O6 players. Of course that also brings Crosby's 19 seasons of elite play into the mix.

So Howe, IMO, has 12/13 years of playing at a level that, at worst, is equal to McDavid's past 8 season.

And of course Howe's all around game places him in the Big 4 with the better offensive players. McDavid brings nothing but offense.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Let's get the narratives straight.

From 1954/55 to 1962/63, talking offense only, Howe was arguably the best player, or, at worst, co-best with peak/prime Beliveau. He matched Beliveau in the regular season and bettered him in the playoffs in PPG. If you want to throw Cups into the mix, then that brings Crosby into this discussion.

He went from being "ungettable" in the RS from '51 to '54 to being "gettable". McDavid has only been "ungettable" in two seasons and we just saw a player almost match his peak; closer than anyone got to Howe's 52/53 season. If you want to throw McDavid's 2023 Rocket into the comparison with Kucherov's 2024 season, then that should bring McDavid's 2024 assist accomplishments records down a notch.

McDavid did hit his prime/peak earlier in age but that usually gets ignored when discussing O6 players. Of course that also brings Crosby's 19 seasons of elite play into the mix.

So Howe, IMO, has 12/13 years of playing at a level that, at worst, is equal to McDavid's past 8 season.

And of course Howe's all around game places him in the Big 4 with the better offensive players. McDavid brings nothing but offense.

Agreed.

When Gordie Howe was 27 (the same age as McDavid) in 1955, the Red Wings won the Cup, beating their arch rivals from Montreal in 7 games.

Howe put up 20 points in 11 games. A record, at the time. In the team’s 8 wins, he either scored or assisted on 7 game winners. Jeezus. In the finals against Montreal, he scored 2 game winners (including game 7) and assisted on the other 2. In that 1955 playoff run, the only game where he was not in on the winning goal was in a 3-0 triumph over Toronto in the semi-finals. Howe scored the second goal of that game.

This is what we want from our “Big 4” mega-stars. Rightly or wrongly, we want our legends to be the best player on teams that win multiple Cups. We want iconic moments, like Howe’s 1955 performance or Orr’s “flying goal” in overtime.

Sure, it’s damn hard and luck plays a part. But the Big 4 isn’t the Big 1000 for a reason.

 

[bobholly39]

Ah, the tried and true "what if" game.

What if Bouchard was clearly hobbled after a knee-on-knee hit from Miller in Round 2? Do the Oilers even get past the Canucks?

What if the Panthers were not a disappointing SC finalist the previous year but the clear best Cup winner since the 2005 lockout and as close to a dynastic franchise in the modern era as you can get? Do the Oilers even sniff a Game 5 let alone a Game 7?

But closer to reality, what if McDavid produced earlier in the SCF and not until it was effectively too late? Who cares that he "cemented" his legacy with what are now meaningless points? To quote Ricky Bobby, "If You Ain't First, You're Last"

The original comment was about "leadership" and "winning". It was rightly pointed out that Crosby in 2009 notably scored the first goal in 6 games, two of which opened the series. He took care of business early. And also took care of business early in his career.

McDavid may be destined to be rated higher than Crosby when it is all said and done given he has been more fortunate with injuries after his first nine seasons and that his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in which allows for gaudy numbers to impress fans. He is like Hull and Jagr, IMO, where his playoff resume, despite being lacking vs. their all-time peers, reflects his regular season level of dominance.

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

I'm a huge Crosby supporter as you know from my post history. And I'm also one of those posters who loves to dive into hypothetical scenarios, "what-if's?", and have done so often with Crosby and a potential no major injury career.

The problem is:

Give Crosby no major injury
Project his missing time towards up end of potential (so don't be conservative, but do the opposite)

Do all that - and I still think he falls behind McDavid.

Not yet maybe for career - McDavid needs more longevity. And yes a cup or a couple will be nice. But best 9 seasons to 9, and best individual playoff runs (no cup yet, I get it) I think McDavid already has the edge.

You keep trying to equate McDavid to hull or Jagr but his peak is beyond them. I think it's really close to Howe.

 

[bobholly39]

Let's get the narratives straight.

From 1954/55 to 1962/63, talking offense only, Howe was arguably the best player, or, at worst, co-best with peak/prime Beliveau. He matched Beliveau in the regular season and bettered him in the playoffs in PPG. If you want to throw Cups into the mix, then that brings Crosby into this discussion.

He went from being "ungettable" in the RS from '51 to '54 to being "gettable". McDavid has only been "ungettable" in two seasons and we just saw a player almost match his peak; closer than anyone got to Howe's 52/53 season. If you want to throw McDavid's 2023 Rocket into the comparison with Kucherov's 2024 season, then that should bring McDavid's 2024 assist accomplishments records down a notch.

McDavid did hit his prime/peak earlier in age but that usually gets ignored when discussing O6 players. Of course that also brings Crosby's 19 seasons of elite play into the mix.

So Howe, IMO, has 12/13 years of playing at a level that, at worst, is equal to McDavid's past 8 season.

And of course Howe's all around game places him in the Big 4 with the better offensive players. McDavid brings nothing but offense.

Summarizing Howe as "ungettable" during 4 seasons vs 2 for McDavid is waaay too simple.

Howe faced some of the absolute weakest top end competition ever in his big 4 years. That definitely makes his 4 years shine a bit brighter. In contrast - I think the past few years have been some of the toughest top end competition in league history for ross/hart.

What if Beliveau had peaked one year earlier? What if Howe had been up against last year's Kucherov/MacKinnon? How does Howe's best 2 seasons compare to McDavid's best 2?

I think this is pretty close and worthy of a more in-depth analysis at some point.

 

[Midnight Judges]

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

Except, again, that is utterly false.

During Crosby's career the Pens have a massively winning record with Crosby sitting in the press box - typically between .620 and .720 in terms of points percentage.

 

[Midnight Judges]

McDavid may be destined to be rated higher than Crosby when it is all said and done given he has been more fortunate with injuries after his first nine seasons and that his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in which allows for gaudy numbers to impress fans. He is like Hull and Jagr, IMO, where his playoff resume, despite being lacking vs. their all-time peers, reflects his regular season level of dominance.

Also wildly false.

McDavid's career playoff PPG is 1.58. Crosby's is 1.12. That is a complete arse kicking. McDavid's playoff GPG is also 20% higher than Crosby's.

 

[Beljavskij]

Also wildly false.

McDavid's career playoff PPG is 1.58. Crosby's is 1.12. That is a complete arse kicking. McDavid's playoff GPG is also 20% higher than Crosby's.

Well let's see and factor in when McD declines.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

This narrative seriously needs to die considering Crosby didnt drag anything to a Cup. In 09 Malkin did the dragging, 16 was Kessel doing the work and frankly he should've had the Smythe that year if not for the media rushing to "give Crosby his". If they knew the Pens were going to repeat it's almost a given he doesn't win the 16 Smythe over Kessel and Letang. Even in '17 his strongest playoff, the carrying work was equally shouldered by Malkin.

Lets not forget that Crosby lost his first Cup Final.

As for the rest of your post, there is an unbelievable level of irony with a Crosby supporter speaking out against hypotheticals and what ifs. Half of Crosby's argument for #5 is built on the "what if"

 

[Beljavskij]

Also wildly false.

McDavid's career playoff PPG is 1.58. Crosby's is 1.12. That is a complete arse kicking. McDavid's playoff GPG is also 20% higher than Crosby's.

You make it sound like Crosby is some sort of washed up bum in the playoff.

You do realize that Crosby is the only other player outside of the Oilers-dynasty and Jagr in the top-5 all time playoff points. Jagr and Crosby has the same amount of points but Jagr did so in 28 more games than Crosby.

He's scored more points in the playoffs than any of the other playoff behemoths Lemieux, Yzerman, Sakic, Hull etc.

McDavid is at nr.73 in the list. He's gonna climb surely, so let's see where he end up. But after next season there might be drastic changes for him so who knows how much playoff success his teams will have.

in 3-4 years maybe McDavid will be up there. But until then Crosby is the golden standard for playoffs outside of the oilers.

 

[Felidae]

I don't think it's likely unless he finds another gear or has Howe-like elite longevity.

However, I can see him solidifying himself as the 5th best player ever with a noticeable gap over everyone else that used to contend for that spot.

 

[Beljavskij]

This narrative seriously needs to die considering Crosby didnt drag anything to a Cup. In 09 Malkin did the dragging, 16 was Kessel doing the work and frankly he should've had the Smythe that year if not for the media rushing to "give Crosby his". If they knew the Pens were going to repeat it's almost a given he doesn't win the 16 Smythe over Kessel and Letang. Even in '17 his strongest playoff, the carrying work was equally shouldered by Malkin.

Lets not forget that Crosby lost his first Cup Final.

As for the rest of your post, there is an unbelievable level of irony with a Crosby supporter speaking out against hypotheticals and what ifs. Half of Crosby's argument for #5 is built on the "what if"

Pens doesn't win any of the cups without Crosby. Also funny how in '09 Crosby scores 31 points and but the team is dragged to the win by Malkin. Not saying that Malkin wasn't the better player that year, but it's not like Crosby didn't pull his weight.

"Lets not forget that Crosby lost his first Cup Final."

How is this relevant? Again Crosby scored 27 points (he was 20 y at the time in his third season), same amount of points as Zetterberg who won the smythe.

 

[bobholly39]

Except, again, that is utterly false.

During Crosby's career the Pens have a massively winning record with Crosby sitting in the press box - typically between .620 and .720 in terms of points percentage.

That's because Crosby is such a strong leader that he wills his teammates to step up for him and keep the fort down when injured

 

[WalterLundy]

Well let's see and factor in when McD declines.

Respective playoff stats through first 9 seasons in the league (16-24 vs 06-14)

McDavid: 117 in 74 (1.58)
Crosby: 114 in 95 (1.20)

That’s a 130 per 82 guy vs a 98 per 82 guy. Crosby’s statistical prime ended in 2014 as well so it makes it way fairer/even still just isn’t close at all.

 

[JackSlater]

Ah, the tried and true "what if" game.

What if Bouchard was clearly hobbled after a knee-on-knee hit from Miller in Round 2? Do the Oilers even get past the Canucks?

What if the Panthers were not a disappointing SC finalist the previous year but the clear best Cup winner since the 2005 lockout and as close to a dynastic franchise in the modern era as you can get? Do the Oilers even sniff a Game 5 let alone a Game 7?

But closer to reality, what if McDavid produced earlier in the SCF and not until it was effectively too late? Who cares that he "cemented" his legacy with what are now meaningless points? To quote Ricky Bobby, "If You Ain't First, You're Last"

The original comment was about "leadership" and "winning". It was rightly pointed out that Crosby in 2009 notably scored the first goal in 6 games, two of which opened the series. He took care of business early. And also took care of business early in his career.

McDavid may be destined to be rated higher than Crosby when it is all said and done given he has been more fortunate with injuries after his first nine seasons and that his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in which allows for gaudy numbers to impress fans. He is like Hull and Jagr, IMO, where his playoff resume, despite being lacking vs. their all-time peers, reflects his regular season level of dominance.

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

It's not really about Crosby and how fortunate he was that year, it's about McDavid and how winning a championship is impacted significantly by factors outside of any one player's control. Howe won his first Stanley Cup without even playing in the finals. Gretzky was on a team that won without him after he left. No player can just lead a team to a championship, they can provide some leadership I guess but mainly just play well. McDavid played very, very well in the playoffs but hasn't won yet.

 

[WalterLundy]

Pens doesn't win any of the cups without Crosby. Also funny how in '09 Crosby scores 31 points and but the team is dragged to the win by Malkin. Not saying that Malkin wasn't the better player that year, but it's not like Crosby didn't pull his weight.

"Lets not forget that Crosby lost his first Cup Final."

How is this relevant? Again Crosby scored 27 points (he was 20 y at the time in his third season), same amount of points as Zetterberg who won the smythe.

Crosby played well in the three cup runs and while I agree they don’t win a cup without him, they certainly didn’t win because of him. In 2009 he had a great series against Washington but that was the only series in which he was our best player. In 2016 it was the opposite for him against Washington. The only times in which Crosby was the team leader in points in our three cup runs was 09 against Washington, 16 against New York, and 17 against Nashville. 3 of the 12 total series.

We won a cup in 2009 with him being pointless in games 5, 6 and 7. He was pointless in games 3, 4 and 5 against San Jose in 2016 and didn’t have a goal in the series. The only year he even was deserving of the Conn Smythe was 2017 and even then there were others that were just as worthy. 2016 was a gift and I said it to fellow friends/fans then. Was he good in the playoffs? Yes he did play well but if we are comparing his overall performances to say McDavid then there is a significant difference and yet Crosby was rewarded with cups. The point I’d make is that Crosby would also be cupless in a first 9 season player swap to McDavid’s oilers and I’d say McDavid would have at least 3 cups on the penguins. As a pens fan I’d rather have him than Crosby without much thought.

 

[blogofmike]

Ah, the tried and true "what if" game.

What if Bouchard was clearly hobbled after a knee-on-knee hit from Miller in Round 2? Do the Oilers even get past the Canucks?

What if the Panthers were not a disappointing SC finalist the previous year but the clear best Cup winner since the 2005 lockout and as close to a dynastic franchise in the modern era as you can get? Do the Oilers even sniff a Game 5 let alone a Game 7?

But closer to reality, what if McDavid produced earlier in the SCF and not until it was effectively too late? Who cares that he "cemented" his legacy with what are now meaningless points? To quote Ricky Bobby, "If You Ain't First, You're Last"

The original comment was about "leadership" and "winning". It was rightly pointed out that Crosby in 2009 notably scored the first goal in 6 games, two of which opened the series. He took care of business early. And also took care of business early in his career.

McDavid may be destined to be rated higher than Crosby when it is all said and done given he has been more fortunate with injuries after his first nine seasons and that his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in which allows for gaudy numbers to impress fans. He is like Hull and Jagr, IMO, where his playoff resume, despite being lacking vs. their all-time peers, reflects his regular season level of dominance.

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

Is this one of those sarcastic posts designed to confuse @GreatGonzo ?

Crosby's best run was 2008. Is that now meaningless? Then Sid's 100% below Messier on the all-time list.

Crosby established himself as a winner by taking care of business early with 0 points in Games 1 and 2. He then pulled through in the clutch, with 0 points in Games 5, 6, and 7.

When McDavid was on the ice, his team was a +5, one of the best on the team. When he was off, the team was worse, coming in at a -2. Largely, the series was lost when he was off the ice.

In the 2009 Finals, Crosby was a -3, one of the worst on the team. When he was off the ice, his team was better, and they were Even. Largely (in Game 7, literally), the series was won when he was off the ice.

 

[MadLuke]

But closer to reality, what if McDavid produced earlier in the SCF and not until it was effectively too late? Who cares that he "cemented" his legacy with what are now meaningless points? To quote Ricky Bobby, "If You Ain't First, You're Last"

We speak like that and it is fine, loosing overtime in game 7 or not making the playoff all the same you did not win.

But turning a 3-0 final to a game 7 is not meaningless, it is sport entertainment and it created entertainment (it is not like the cup is an actual achievement or anything).

When Halak reached the conference final, it was not meaningless and nothing, we made a movie about it years later and still something people talk about, when Price did beat the Leafs he did cement his legacy, there are nice non-cup achievement there and there, turning a 3-0 to a game 7 in a 42 point playoff run is writing his name in history, like Lemieux did in 1993 when that 160 pts in 60 game cancer season ended up all for nothing's.. When Richard potted 50 in 50 just to lose to the Leafs in the first round.

When McDavid was on the ice, his team was a +5, one of the best on the team. When he was off, the team was worse, coming in at a -2. Largely, the series was lost when he was off the ice.

During the whole playoff run the Oilers at 5v5 were -13 when McDavid was on the bench, I have no grasp on it but for a team playing in a game 7 that won 15 games of the final that sound something quite special. It is a bit like Karlsson big run with the Senators in terms of carrying a team, but Karlsson was a D playing more minutes.

In the 2009 Finals, Crosby was a -3, one of the worst on the team. When he was off the ice, his team was better

One other way to say it could be when Lidstrom-Rafalski-Zetterberg where on the ice the RedWings were better than when they were not (for the sentence above to be different we would be saying right now when Lidstrom was on the ice the red wings were worst in those finals, what would it say about him...).

The Penguins when Lidstrom was on the ice and Crosby was not either were not really good and Crosby when he was on the ice while Lidstrom was not has perfectly fine number (if I do not get mixed-up by the nomenclature). That still a think (like Lindros before) that Lidstrom-Rafalski-Zetterberg was able to stop you when you played with a perfectly fine Kunitz-old Guerin-Gonchar, etc... but Lidstrom-Zetterberg could be in the conversation for the best ever at it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Ah, the tried and true "what if" game.

What if Bouchard was clearly hobbled after a knee-on-knee hit from Miller in Round 2? Do the Oilers even get past the Canucks?

What if the Panthers were not a disappointing SC finalist the previous year but the clear best Cup winner since the 2005 lockout and as close to a dynastic franchise in the modern era as you can get? Do the Oilers even sniff a Game 5 let alone a Game 7?

But closer to reality, what if McDavid produced earlier in the SCF and not until it was effectively too late? Who cares that he "cemented" his legacy with what are now meaningless points? To quote Ricky Bobby, "If You Ain't First, You're Last"

The original comment was about "leadership" and "winning". It was rightly pointed out that Crosby in 2009 notably scored the first goal in 6 games, two of which opened the series. He took care of business early. And also took care of business early in his career.

McDavid may be destined to be rated higher than Crosby when it is all said and done given he has been more fortunate with injuries after his first nine seasons and that his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in which allows for gaudy numbers to impress fans. He is like Hull and Jagr, IMO, where his playoff resume, despite being lacking vs. their all-time peers, reflects his regular season level of dominance.

But this should not change the fact that Crosby is a winner in every sense of the word and won while dragging some mediocre teams and, more notably, mediocre linemates.

The team had only 4 goals in the first 3 games, McDavid assisted on 3 of them. Try again..

Only to disappear when it mattered the most, the finals. Funny how McDavid gets flack for “not showing up” when Crosby didn’t….im sure you can figure out what the main differences were between the two teams.

McDavid is like Hull and Jagr? Does that mean Crosby is more like Sakic and Yzerman?…

Tell me, when did Crosby drag a “mediocre” team to glory. I’ll wait

 

[VanIslander]

9 and 99 are a tier nowhere yet seen.

 

[MadLuke]

Only to disappear when it mattered the most, the finals. Funny how McDavid gets flack for “not showing up” when Crosby didn’t….im sure you can figure out what the main differences were between the two teams.

The idea that Crosby did not get flack for being stopped in the 2009 final seem quite farfetch, his legacy with him scoring in the final and winning the Smythe instead of Malkin would be significantly different. It is something that always pointed out, that, obviously missing game and bad leadership young with how much he complained to ref are the big 3 things that will be brought up as negative.

his game is completely suited to the higher scoring environment he plays in

The guy won an Art Ross when you needed only 90 pts to do so, we can assume that skating extremely fast and being extremely good would have worked well in the lower scoring era.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The idea that Crosby did not get flack for being stopped in the 2009 final seem quite farfetch, his legacy with him scoring in the final and winning the Smythe instead of Malkin would be significantly different. It is something that always pointed out, that, obviously missing game and bad leadership young with how much he complained to ref are the big 3 things that will be brought up as negative.


The guy won an Art Ross when you needed only 90 pts to do so, we can assume that skating extremely fast and being extremely good would have worked well in the lower scoring.

It just baffles me how many pen fans/Crosby lovers I see pick apart and negatively dissect his post seaosn and finals play…”oh well look at that, he didn’t do anything the first 3 games.”….”he picked up garbage points in MEANINGLESS games while not showing up to the important ones!”…..”he’s a bad leader, definitely not as good as Crosby. Crosby got his team to a game 7 victory!”

All being said while ignoring the major context and basically ignoring/trying to downplay McDavids play. Crosby is no longer getting flack because he won so all is forgiven.

Funny thing is Crosby won his first scoring title, Hart, and Lindsay in one of the biggest scoring environments of that time. And he did it while racking up PP points too. Crazy how that keeps getting tossed aside all while I see McDavid be called a “PP merchant.”

 

[DitchMarner]

It just baffles me how many pen fans/Crosby lovers I see pick apart and negatively dissect his post seaosn and finals play…”oh well look at that, he didn’t do anything the first 3 games.”….”he picked up garbage points in MEANINGLESS games while not showing up to the important ones!”…..”he’s a bad leader, definitely not as good as Crosby. Crosby got his team to a game 7 victory!”

All being said while ignoring the major context and basically ignoring/trying to downplay McDavids play. Crosby is no longer getting flack because he won so all is forgiven.

Funny thing is Crosby won his first scoring title, Hart, and Lindsay in one of the biggest scoring environments of that time. And he did it while racking up PP points too. Crazy how that keeps getting tossed aside all while I see McDavid be called a “PP merchant.”

I don't think I could ever, with a straight face, convince myself that a showing of one goal, three points and a minus three rating in six and a half games is significantly superior to a performance of three goals, 11 points and a plus five rating in seven games because Maxime Talbot turned into a hero for one night.

The mental gymnastics are pretty comical... in a sad, twisted sort of way.