Can Connor McDavid break up the "big 4"?

[MadLuke]

I see McDavid be called a “PP merchant.”

An big issue with this would be
1) He was breaking modern era even strength record before the power play production racked up
2) McDavid Oilers have the best power play in the nhl

Oilers PP%
16: 18.1%
17: 22.9%
18: 14.8%
19: 21.2%
20: 29.5%
21: 27.6%
22: 26.0%
23: 32.4%
24: 26.3%

Since McDavid started to score a lot of point on the oilers PP, they are in the own special tier alone with a 28.5% power play, no one above 25% in that period. And in the playoff 31.3% during that time frame, that power play marchant are not empty calories.

There an element that playing a lot of minutes on first unit of PP you will get points and many time a goal would have occured regardless of which top 2D or Top 6 forward in the nhl was in that position anyway (or later on the same powerplay), but the Oilers big PP guns that rack a lot of points are adding a lot of nets goals to their teams (like Lemieux did)

 

[daver]

The guy won an Art Ross when you needed only 90 pts to do so, we can assume that skating extremely fast and being extremely good would have worked well in the lower scoring era.

Sure, but some posters are apt to throw out point totals and PPGs with no context for relative dominance.

And a higher scoring environment makes for higher scoring by the elite scorers. Some posters point to the Art Ross winning totals in the late '50s as evidence that Howe simply faced inferior competition at his peak.

Crosby and McDavid are almost equal in PPG dominance from Season #2 to Season #9:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Here is Mario:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

More dominant while having more seasons clearly affected by injuries.

 

[daver]

Summarizing Howe as "ungettable" during 4 seasons vs 2 for McDavid is waaay too simple.

Howe faced some of the absolute weakest top end competition ever in his big 4 years. That definitely makes his 4 years shine a bit brighter. In contrast - I think the past few years have been some of the toughest top end competition in league history for ross/hart.

What if Beliveau had peaked one year earlier? What if Howe had been up against last year's Kucherov/MacKinnon? How does Howe's best 2 seasons compare to McDavid's best 2?

I think this is pretty close and worthy of a more in-depth analysis at some point.

If you are willing to accept relative domination as the metric for comparison and not raw point totals, then go ahead with your analysis.

To be fair, you make no mention that Howe's peak needs context in your OP.

- Howe - his 4 year peak in the 50s is fantastic (I have it at a level below other 3, but still #4 all time). And then you add his insane prime on top of it...

 

[jigglysquishy]

I think it's a fair point that the PPG dominance 2006-2014/2016-2014 or 2011-2014/2021-2024 between Crosby and McDavid are similar.

It's also fair to point out that over that long stretch McDavid played an extra 131 games over 8 seasons (16 extra games/season). Or that over that four season stretch McDavid played an extra 114 games (28 extra games/season).

When you are maintaining the PPG dominance over a longer stretch it's obviously more impressive.

We will see how it goes in 2024-25. It's the first year Crosby drops back down to the pack, where his PPG is 0.05 within Seguin, Benn, Kane, and Tavares.

If McDavid puts up ~115-120 points, it would be a similar scale to Crosby 2014-15. But if he puts up 130-145 points, it would start to put a real gap in their PPG dominance.

 

[MadLuke]

PPG dominance over a longer stretch it's obviously more impressive.

And match with playoff scoring dominance at the same time, regular seasons 2011-2014 points per game and on-ice even strength domination of Crosby is probably among the best peak of all-time great level.

During that time during the playoff, 32 pts in 33 playoff games was certainly elite, that what peak Getzlaf-Datsyuk would do, but nothing all-time special and the Pens got out of the second round once.

21-24 McDavid 1.74 ppg, 99 points in 57 playoffs game (Kucherov-Mack are around 1.25, and are putting great playoff run together and winnings cups on great offensive teams, that like scoring 140 pts in the regular season in an era where no one really go over 100, but he is doing that in the playoff.... ) in that stretch, that 2 big plus for him.

 

[tabness]

Funny thing is Crosby won his first scoring title, Hart, and Lindsay in one of the biggest scoring environments of that time. And he did it while racking up PP points too. Crazy how that keeps getting tossed aside all while I see McDavid be called a “PP merchant.”

Crosby was mocked a lot about "secondary Sid" and criticized on powerplay points as well throughout a good part of his career. Only seems to have died down recently.

If I may offer some advice, grow a thicker skin about (real or perceived) criticisms of your favorite players on HF.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Crosby was mocked a lot about "secondary Sid" and criticized on powerplay points as well throughout a good part of his career. Only seems to have died down recently.

If I may offer some advice, grow a thicker skin about (real or perceived) criticisms of your favorite players on HF.

It seems more like many Pen fans/Crosby lovers let their hate/jealousy for McDavid tend to have different ways of telling the story of the dominance of the great Sidney Crosby. The same things they criticize McDavid for and the standards they hold him to, Crosby either never did or didn’t do to a level that McDavid did it.

Like I said, compare their ‘09 and ‘24 playoffs. It’s clear there is an agenda against McDavid.

 

[MadLuke]

Crosby was mocked a lot about "secondary Sid" and criticized on powerplay points as well throughout a good part of his career. Only seems to have died down recently.

This, both the notions that Crosby performance in stanley cup finals or 70 powerplay point in 2007 were never pointed out for Crosby seem complete revisionist history. He is obviously one of the most scrutinized and criticized hockey player in the history of the sport, maybe the most.

I think we can be safe to say that ever and specially in the internet era, no athlete that people made them wear the best player in the world crown in team sport where it is almost always a bit fuzzy did not go through giant scrutiny, all possible nick-pick and all criticism you can imagine and not imagine.

Lebron James, Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid now, the Messi vs Ronaldo must have turned all the leave to look for some not do well in afternoon on synthetic grass issue with the other, I am sure it exists even some Mahomes is not really the best somewhere talk.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, this is a classic case of people living the day to day of something now and not remembering the day to day details of something that happened almost 20 years ago...

 

[jigglysquishy]

I think the last hockey superstar to get big without a band of haters was Orr.

Lafleur, Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Lindros, Yzerman, Ovechkin, Crosby. They all had a group of vocal doubters. You're even seeing it now with Bedard where he's getting chastised for his defensive play despite being 18 on an awful team.

The higher you climb the more people hate you.

That guys like Crosby, Lebron, Curry, or McDavid still have haters is just how sports is now.

 

[WalterLundy]

I think it's a fair point that the PPG dominance 2006-2014/2016-2014 or 2011-2014/2021-2024 between Crosby and McDavid are similar.

It's also fair to point out that over that long stretch McDavid played an extra 131 games over 8 seasons (16 extra games/season). Or that over that four season stretch McDavid played an extra 114 games (28 extra games/season).

When you are maintaining the PPG dominance over a longer stretch it's obviously more impressive.

We will see how it goes in 2024-25. It's the first year Crosby drops back down to the pack, where his PPG is 0.05 within Seguin, Benn, Kane, and Tavares.

If McDavid puts up ~115-120 points, it would be a similar scale to Crosby 2014-15. But if he puts up 130-145 points, it would start to put a real gap in their PPG dominance.

2.75 G/GP (07-14)
2.99 G/GP (17-24)

Crosby’s competition adjusted to 17-24
Kucherov: 1.41
Malkin: 1.33
MacKinnon: 1.30
Draisaitl: 1.30
Ovechkin: 1.28
Panarin: 1.19
Pastrnak: 1.17
(17-24) Crosby: 1.16
St. Louis: 1.16
Matthews: 1.15

McDavid’s 2-4 comp average: 1.34
Crosby’s 2-4 comp average adjusted to 2017-2024: 1.25


McDavid’s competition adjusted to 07-14
Kucherov: 1.30
Malkin: 1.22
MacKinnon: 1.20
Draisaitl: 1.20
Ovechkin: 1.18
Panarin: 1.09
Pastrnak: 1.08
17-24 Crosby: 1.07
St. Louis: 1.07
Matthews: 1.06

Crosby’s 2-4 comp average: 1.16
McDavid’s 2-4 comp average adjusted to 2007-2014: 1.23

Even with a crude and basic G/Gp adjustment we can see that dominance should be contextually viewed. McDavid’s peers are clearly harder to dominate than Crosby’s and yet McDavid dominates Crosby’s to a larger degree than he did while playing a much longer sample. This isn’t to say Crosby wasn’t impressive in his stat prime but it’s already in favor of McDavid and will probably become a non discussion as the 17-24 McDavid “prime” will probably shift to a start date between 2020 and 2027 in time.

 

[MadLuke]

2.75 G/GP (07-14)
2.99 G/GP (17-24)

This was not claim I think.
2006-14 vs 2017-2024 and it was about ppg dominance.

Min 250 games
Crosby: 1.4

Evgeni Malkin	1.22​	0.87​
Alex Ovechkin	1.2​	0.86​
Joe Thornton	1.11​	0.79​
Jason Spezza	1.06​	0.76​
Pavel Datsyuk	1.06​	0.76​
Marc Savard	1.04​	0.74​
Steven Stamkos	1.04​	0.74​
Martin St. Louis	1.04​	0.74​
Average	1.09625​	0.78​

Crosby ppg was 27.7% higher than the average top 10 (excluding him)

17-24
McDavid: 1.56

Kucherov	1.41​	0.90​
Mack	1.3​	0.83​
Drai	1.3​	0.83​
Panarin	1.19​	0.76​
Kaprizov	1.19​	0.76​
Pastrnak	1.17​	0.75​
Crosby	1.16​	0.74​
Matthews	1.15​	0.74​
Stamkos	1.12​	0.72​
Average	1.22​	0.78​

McDavid ppg was ridiculously in a way also 27.7% higher (27.8%if we round up) than the average top 10 (excluding him), they often ppg career wise appear to be so close to each other that it is freaky.

Was Crosby group weaker, post lock-out era seeing an transition moment were the older top guy like Forsberg did not play in it much and newer a la Kane yet to establish themselve, maybe at least outside the very strong top of Malkin-Ovechkin-Thornton that was all time good competition, but looking at older post peak Stamkos-Crosby performance in the second one it would not be clear that it is the case.

11-14 crosby and 21-24 McDavid in ppg dominance I would imagine are also about the same, but here I think the McDavid competition being better could hold more weight.

 

[MadLuke]

At least 150 games played:
11-14

Sidney Crosby	1.47​	1.413​
Evgeni Malkin	1.2​	0.82​
Steven Stamkos	1.14​	0.78​
Martin St. Louis	1.05​	0.71​
Claude Giroux	1.05​	0.71​
Alex Ovechkin	1.01​	0.69​
Ryan Getzlaf	1​	0.68​
John Tavares	0.97​	0.66​
Pavel Datsyuk	0.97​	0.66​
Patrick Kane	0.97​	0.66​
Average	1.04​	0.71​

21-24

Connor McDavid	1.74​	1.299​
Nikita Kucherov	1.55​	0.89​
Nathan MacKinnon	1.52​	0.87​
Leon Draisaitl	1.44​	0.83​
Artemi Panarin	1.3​	0.75​
Auston Matthews	1.3​	0.75​
Mikko Rantanen	1.27​	0.73​
Mitch Marner	1.26​	0.72​
David Pastrnak	1.23​	0.71​
Kirill Kaprizov	1.19​	0.68​
Average	1.34​	0.77​

Crosby was scoring at a 41% higher rate than the average top 10 of that stretch but.... the * is really big here vs 30% for McDavid, Ovechkin-Giroux played 100 more games than him in those 4 seasons, that a lot.

And Kucherov to Matthews in that top 10 could have been more in their prime and better points getters than Crosby competition, Getzlaf to Kane are not a weak bottom of a top 10 too, of it would be more about thee 2-5 or so that is particularly strong lately.

To put it in perspective Gretzky between 89-93 did not outscore the average top 10 player excluding him and Mario by 40%, Jagr from 96 to 99 did it by 27%, would Crosby actually did it and not just in theory, it would have been one of the great peak.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

At least 150 games played:
11-14

Sidney Crosby	1.47​	1.413462​
Evgeni Malkin	1.2​	0.82​
Steven Stamkos	1.14​	0.78​
Martin St. Louis	1.05​	0.71​
Claude Giroux	1.05​	0.71​
Alex Ovechkin	1.01​	0.69​
Ryan Getzlaf	1​	0.68​
John Tavares	0.97​	0.66​
Pavel Datsyuk	0.97​	0.66​
Patrick Kane	0.97​	0.66​
Average	1.04​	0.71​

21-24

Connor McDavid	1.74​	1.298507​
Nikita Kucherov	1.55​	0.89​
Nathan MacKinnon	1.52​	0.87​
Leon Draisaitl	1.44​	0.83​
Artemi Panarin	1.3​	0.75​
Auston Matthews	1.3​	0.75​
Mikko Rantanen	1.27​	0.73​
Mitch Marner	1.26​	0.72​
David Pastrnak	1.23​	0.71​
Kirill Kaprizov	1.19​	0.68​
Average	1.34​	0.77​

Crosby was scoring at a 41% higher rate than the average top 10 of that stretch but.... the * is really big here vs 30% for McDavid, Ovechkin-Giroux played 100 more games than him in that small stretch.

And Kucherov to Matthews could have been more in their prime and points getters than Crosby competition, Getzlaf to Kane are not a weak bottom of a top 10.

But to put it in perspective Gretzky between 89-93 did not outscore the average top 10 player excluding him and Mario by 40%, Jagr from 96 to 99 did it by 27%, would Crosby actually did it and not just in theory, it would have been one of the great peak.

For this comparison, I'd argue there's a fairly significant difference in strength of competition (in addition to the missed time from Crosby). Especially when considering the amount of time Malkin missed in this stretch

 

[MadLuke]

Especially when considering the amount of time Malkin missed in this stretch

Does that hurt Malkin ppg to have missed time (while helping Crosby ?), it could be depending on when it occurs if scoring change a lot from year to year, but 11-14 was pretty similar low scoring all along I think.

Maybe Drai-Kucherov-Mack is better enough than Stamkos-StLouis playing together and Malkin, Panarin than Giroux and so on to make it closer than that big cap, but give Crosby a 10% penalty for weaker comp, 20% for game missed on is 41% (41*.9*.8) and he is down to the same ppg dominance than McDavid. And I am not sure we are being unfair to Crosby to do so at all.

It was just to say that in terms of ppg dominance, the original statement that @jigglysquishy made that 07-14 vs 17-24 and their 11-14 and 21-24 is quite comparable was more than fair.

With the usual caviat, more game always better, obviously.
2014 Crosby was his first down year and was already post peak, McDavid just had arguably his best playoff and could easily have more Art Ross in him.
- 21-24 feature the very important playoff scoring dominance for McDavid that 11-14 Crosby does not have.

 

[daver]

For this comparison, I'd argue there's a fairly significant difference in strength of competition (in addition to the missed time from Crosby). Especially when considering the amount of time Malkin missed in this stretch

You can stretch it out to the #25 scorer or the #50, scorer, the % gap is about the same.

Are you claiming that there has been a wholesale increase in the level of competition? If so, Crosby's longevity looks even better.

 

[daver]

Does that hurt Malkin ppg to have missed time (while helping Crosby ?), it could be depending on when it occurs if scoring change a lot from year to year, but 11-14 was pretty similar low scoring all along I think.

Maybe Drai-Kucherov-Mack is better enough than Stamkos-StLouis playing together and Malkin, Panarin than Giroux and so on to make it closer than that big cap, but give Crosby a 10% penalty for weaker comp, 20% for game missed on is 41% (41*.9*.8) and he is down to the same ppg dominance than McDavid. And I am not sure we are being unfair to Crosby to do so at all.

It was just to say that in terms of ppg dominance, the original statement that @jigglysquishy made that 07-14 vs 17-24 and their 11-14 and 21-24 is quite comparable was more than fair.

With the usual caviat, more game always better, obviously.
2014 Crosby was his first down year and was already post peak, McDavid just had arguably his best playoff and could easily have more Art Ross in him.
- 21-24 feature the very important playoff scoring dominance for McDavid that 11-14 Crosby does not have.

This has all been played out before. McDavid simply is not clearly superior to peak Jagr or prime/peak Crosby.

That makes the McDavid vs. Mario angle very tricky, as we know how Mario vs. Jagr stacked up.

 

[Michael Farkas]

One potentially interesting to me, will be to evaluate - after the dust settles - the crowd that McDavid keeps versus the crowd that Crosby keeps. Crosby started at a time where a lot of guys had to make a big adjustment to their game. Not just guys that had been in the NHL, but development systems didn't foresee the game go from sand castle building in '04 to the no-touch autobahn in '06.

Crosby was going to work out any era, of course. But look at what he brought with him...he brought insane puck protection (relative to his size), he brought elite wall play. That was stuff he was gonna have to use if the league didn't sink itself for a year and change all the rules. It just so happened that he had a great rush game, a great inside game...but what's the best part about his skating? His edges. Not his straight line speed, because the anticipation was: "I'm not going anywhere in a hurry in this league."

McDavid grew up looking at a more wide open game. He developed under those circumstances. McDavid is one of the best players off the rush I've ever seen. What's his best skating asset? His speed. His explosiveness. He's not a poor player on the wall or a poor puck protector by any means (he's not poor at anything), but how often do we see him just kicking the puck up the wall and maintaining it for extended time? Not nearly as often as Sid. What is McDavid's protection move? It's that jab step shoulder fake, cut against the grain. It's not the same as Sid's because the development environment changed.

You can kind of see it in MadLuke's peers tables above too...

Malkin - horse. Not a speedster. More power forward-y than speedy finesse.
St. Louis - Fast, no question. But he burrows his way, master puck protector relative to size.
Giroux - Average skater, but unreal sense for drawing in checkers and darting around them at the last moment.
Ovechkin - Kills in any era because he's an ox man that can score from distance. But even he isn't really built for breakaways or anything.
Getzlaf - Throw back power center, below average wheels. Owns wall and anyone under 6'2".
Tavares - Another average skater, conditioned to work on the walls, work off pressure, create faux initial contact points to get defenders off balance and then exploit that space he creates a la Crosby.
Datsyuk - Again, not a speedster. But he made it work on the inside with feints and insane hands. But not assembled with a wide open game in mind. The open game helps him because he's not an amazing athlete...but it's not like his ES production suddenly ballooned beyond recognition. He just kept doing his thing, but with less hooking and holding.

The McDavid group is made differently to me...

MacKinnon - Is a complicated rush offense player who probably plays too fast for his own good. But he's not playing the same game as a Crosby type. He's playing more of a McDavid game. He owns the interior predominantly. He's like the beta test for the McDavid release in a way.

Marner, Rantanen, Kaprizov, even Matthews to a degree...they play on the rush really, really well. And they vary in terms of defensive acumen, sure, but they don't really have the same puck protection buffet of moves, they don't have the same walk off the wall moves...they're quick off the wall or they're not off the wall. They can problem solve in different parts of the rink than the "old" guard...

Obviously, guys like Draisaitl on this side, Kane on the other break the mold a bit...but that's just it, there's a mold. And we'll see how they adapt if the game changes once again...

 

[daver]

I think it's a fair point that the PPG dominance 2006-2014/2016-2014 or 2011-2014/2021-2024 between Crosby and McDavid are similar.

It's also fair to point out that over that long stretch McDavid played an extra 131 games over 8 seasons (16 extra games/season). Or that over that four season stretch McDavid played an extra 114 games (28 extra games/season).

When you are maintaining the PPG dominance over a longer stretch it's obviously more impressive.

Not sure I would say it's more impressive, it is certainly more valuable and appropriately places McDavid ahead of Crosby in regular season accomplishments through their 9th season.

But (you know there was always going to be a "but"), Crosby's PPG dominance could have been even better given how much of his peak level of play he missed out on.

Back to the OP, you can argue that McDavid is on his way to matching Howe's offensive resume (but still has a long way to go) but Howe's all around game cannot be matched.

Which brings us back to Mario. I don't think that majority feel that McDavid has reached Mario's level of play which makes it difficult to place him beside him, let alone above.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Talent evaluation leads to you weird shit like Mario being the best player in the world in '94-'95 or after he retired.

If you don't play, you're not a player that's there to be ranked.

Gtfo. Mario was easily the best player on earth in 94-95. Even if he took the season off.

 

[Crosby2010]

I don't think anyone ought to be too hung up on the power play points thing. Almost every single superstar since the internet started has been criticized for having too many PP points. And you know what, it all evens out. Although, to be fair there is pretty much not a single season in Gretzky's career where you would say he scored too many points on the power play in relation to even strength until after 1991. Once 1992 started then you saw a shift with him, but this is no longer a prime Gretzky. For whatever reason though, he loaded up on even strength points vs. power play points in 1997 and 1998. Strange.

I can remember 2007 and Crosby had 120 points as a 19 year old. At that time I don't remember anyone caring that he scored 61 on the power play and 59 even strength. This was a rare time Crosby did this, in fact his only time. Other than that he always had much more production at even strength. And yet in 2007 everyone thought he was the best player in the game, and he was.

Ditto Mario in, say, 1996. 79 PP points, 73 ES points, 9 SH points. Or Mario in 1988 with 80 PP, 74 ES, 14 SH. I am still taking Gretzky over him in 1988 as are most everyone, but these are really the only two seasons where this happened for Mario other than his final year in 2006. He was the best player in hockey in 1996, to me that was clear. And outside of Gretzky he was the best in 1988.

For all the marbles, there has never been a season in McDavid's career where he scored more points on the PP than at even strength. But yet McDavid has never reached Mario's peak level of play. He's been similar in the postseason but he's never matched Mario over a full season. None of it has to do with how anyone scored their points.

 

[GreatGonzo]

This has all been played out before. McDavid simply is not clearly superior to peak Jagr or prime/peak Crosby.

That makes the McDavid vs. Mario angle very tricky, as we know how Mario vs. Jagr stacked up.

McDavid is definitely above peak Crosby. Especially considering Crosby didn’t really have a peak, and his PPG is flawed due to the amount of games played. There’s no amount of “should have” or “could have” that you can use for Crosby, McDavid actually played the games and dominated in a way Crosby didn’t. It’s really that simple. I would even argue he’s passed Peak Jagr as well, especially when you factor in playoffs.

 

[WalterLundy]

McDavid is definitely above peak Crosby. Especially considering Crosby didn’t really have a peak, and his PPG is flawed due to the amount of games played. There’s no amount of “should have” or “could have” that you can use for Crosby, McDavid actually played the games and dominated in a way Crosby didn’t. It’s really that simple. I would even argue he’s passed Peak Jagr as well, especially when you factor in playoffs.

He is definitely above peak Crosby and Jagr and closer to Lemieux than he is to either.

Scoring environments for peak Lemieux, McDavid, Jagr and Crosby respectively:
2020-21: EVG: 2.25, PPG: 0.57, SHG: 0.07
2022-23: EVG: 2.39, PPG: 0.65, SHG: 0.10
1988-89: EVG: 2.53, PPG: 1.06, SHG: 0.15
1992-93: EVG: 2.44, PPG: 1.03, SHG: 0.15
2006-07: EVG: 1.92, PPG: 0.85, SHG: 0.11
2010-11: EVG: 2.01, PPG: 0.64, SHG: 0.08
1995-96: EVG: 2.10, PPG: 0.90, SHG: 0.14
1998-99: EVG: 1.84, PPG: 0.69, SHG: 0.10

Peak McDavid in Peak Crosby’s environments

10-11 Crosby:
66 in 41 (1.61)
06-07 Crosby:
120 in 79 (1.52)

20-21 McDavid (in 10-11):
103 in 56 (1.83)
22-23 McDavid (in 06-07)
161 in 82 (1.96)

Peak McDavid in Peak Jagr’s environments

98-99 Jagr:
127 in 81 (1.57)
95-96 Jagr:
149 in 82 (1.82)

20-21 McDavid (in 98-99)
101 in 56 (1.80)
22-23 McDavid (in 95-96)
174 in 82 (2.12)

Peak McDavid in Peak Lemieux’s environments

92-93 Lemieux:
160 in 60 (2.67)
88-89 Lemieux:
199 in 76 (2.62)

20-21 McDavid (in 92-93):
141 in 56 (2.52)
22-23 McDavid (in 88-89):
206 in 82 (2.51)

 

[Michael Farkas]

Re: Gonzo. Yeah...maybe...that argument holds in 2013 or something...but I think you're on the fringes if you fully discount Crosby as woulda-coulda-shoulda at this point.

He's played a zillion games. He immediately came back and completely trashed the league for three-quarters of it (see, I can get full season freight out of nothing too haha) - he had like a 30% lead in the scoring race when a puck ricocheted into his mouth.

He came back the next year and won the Art Ross by like 20% didn't he?

It's not like he's a mystery or a gimmick or anything...he was already punished for missing the games with the award voting. It took players a month to catch up in 2013 to just nudge him out for the Ross and the Hart, but (not to use an ad populum) everyone knows he was by far the best thing going.

Yes, he missed the games. Yes, the best ability is not getting hit the face by pucks and dirtbags. But I guess I don't get the double punishment. Sure, is 1.7 pts/gm in an era where guys were scraping their way to 1.1 or a monstrous 1.2 gonna necessarily hold? Maybe not. But 1.5, 1.4 whatever it falls to in the extra games, still laps the field. He clearly looked the part, his game clearly translates, he proved to be a balanced attacker no matter how many undrafted free agents were on his wings.

I don't know, I'm not in the business of taking down McDavid by any means...but I'm not ready to bury Crosby quite yet either.

 

[MadLuke]

20-21 McDavid (in 10-11):
103 in 56 (1.83)

Not sure how it goes but playing in that league:

1.	Connor McDavid • EDM	1.88
2.	Leon Draisaitl • EDM	1.50
3.	Artemi Panarin • NYR	1.38
4.	Nathan MacKinnon • COL	1.35
5.	Brad Marchand • BOS	1.30
6.	Auston Matthews • TOR	1.27
	Mikko Rantanen • COL	1.27
8.	Mitch Marner • TOR	1.22
9.	Patrick Kane • CHI	1.18
10.	Aleksander Barkov • FLA	1.16

vs

1.	Sidney Crosby • PIT	1.61
2.	Daniel Sedin* • VAN	1.27
3.	Martin St. Louis* • TBL	1.21
4.	Corey Perry • ANA	1.20
5.	Henrik Sedin* • VAN	1.15
6.	Ryan Getzlaf • ANA	1.13
7.	Steven Stamkos • TBL	1.11
8.	Teemu Selänne* • ANA	1.10
9.	Alex Ovechkin • WSH	1.08
10.	Brad Richards • DAL	1.07

That one, is less than a 2% drop ?

Top 20 ppg hoes from 0.92 to 1.02, more than a 10% jump, the average team went from 2.732 to 2.893 a 6% jump or 5.6% drop, how does this adjustment work ?

In 22-23 the average team scored 258 goals in 07 it was 236, 102 pts to make the top 10 in 23, it was 95 pts to make the top 10 in 07, how does the adjustment adds more points for having played your season in 2023 ? The way powerplay was so much higher or some maths ?