Confirmed with Link: Campbell/Clifford to the leafs

[Herby]

The "should have gotten more" crowd which pops up on every single messageboard in every single sport once again fails to realize that, no they couldn't have gotten more, it's not as if Blake took a lesser offer, unfortunately this combo just isn't as valued around the league as they are on this board. Rob Blake told the entire league what he was offering and this was the best offer. You can say they should have held onto them, rather than get this return, that is a more viable comment to make but at the end of the day it's another player from the cup years moving on, nothing against Clifford (and hopefully soon to be Lewis, Martinez, TT, Carter) but this was a page that needed to be turned awhile ago, if only for the optics that yes, the Kings are turning the page on that era of the team's history.

Both players are going to help Toronto alot more than they are going to help a rebuilding Kings team.

 

[bland]

Yeah, Villalta will be the starter in ONT and Kehler will be recalled to be the back up unless something else breaks. I have to say, after a bit of a shaky start in relief, Villalta has shown he has game. I've been pleasantly surprised, but it's gonna make it more difficult for the Reign pushing for that last playoff spot in the Pacific.

Hopefully the Toffoli and possibly Martinez deals bring in prospects, and not just picks. If not, both teams will suffer as Blake will have no option other than the Willsie route in the summer.

I am fairly certain that Anderson-Dolan would have been in LA all year had Lizotte not been so impressive. No other forward is pushing for a NHL role now or next year, and it would be completely counterproductive to take Frk away from the Reign and Vilardi now.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Okay, but who?

There is nobody in Ontario ready to step in, and nobody at all with that particular skill set. Not a soul.

Some things are worth keeping regardless of fair value. It has absolutely nothing to do with sentimentality. This is a team with so little presence to it, so little fortitude and discipline. There were only two wingers in the entire pro organization that have any kind of ability along the wall, and once Toffoli is dealt in the next week or so, this will be the weakest board play Kings team in memory.

That doesn't just affect this year's results, you need those guys to practice with and against. It helps young defensemen to have to drill against that kind of player. It's one thing to lose due to a lack of talent, but this weak bunch is going through a full on wussification that isn't just a lack of fights or big hits, but grit and accountability as well. That's been a big loss since the real leaders left, and the last bastion of that era left today. One guy can't do it alone, but having nobody who can do it at all can be catastrophic.

Hopefully they sign him again the summer.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but Kyle Clifford has lost quite a bit of an edge in his game. It’s not just him either, and I guess to some degree I can’t fault him given that he’s playing for one of the worst teams in the league for the past two years.

It’s not worth getting yourself killed on such a team, and it showed. Clifford no longer plays with the same intensity or snarl. Maybe he’ll find that again in Toronto. Either way, he’s a UFA to be and 11th in average ice time on this decrepit team.

 

[bland]

I think the return is more than fair. You essentially traded a 4th line winger who has 60 days left on his contract for a 4th line winger that is 5 years younger, has speed and is an excellent fore checker who is under contract for two seasons then the Kings have RFA control and our back up goalie for two guaranteed 3rd round picks, the 2021 pick with a fair chance to become a 2nd round pick. Face it, Blake had zero leverage with 3 NHL goalies who are not waiver exempt going into next season. There is no market for Quick. Campbell was going to be moved, whether it was now or the off-season.

Some additional thoughts:

(1) Kings and Reign must have felt Villalta proved himself enough the Kings could finally promote Petersen. I have to say he's exceeded my expectations so far, but it will make the Reign's playoff push a bit more difficult.
(2) Kings are weak at LW in the organization, likely why they targeted one in return, especially since they lost one in the trade.
(3) This gives the Kings the Columbus 3rd round pick and Calgary 4th round pick in the upcoming draft. Could we see another bundle deal to move up to a late 2nd or another early 3rd round pick this year?
(4) Hextall was brought in to be counsel (another voice in the room) in these situations. This was likely run by him also.

Blake is the one who signed Campbell to that extension prematurely, creating the waiver logjam and limiting his value in trade. Backup goalies with extended contracts are never going to provide much in return. No doubt he was extended so he could have been expansion draft fodder 15 months from now, but its not like Quick is in danger of going to Seattle if Petersen proves himself.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm gonna miss the hell out of Clifford. So is the team. That one's gonna hit them hard in the room. Maybe they need that, too, but we just traded two of the only dudes on the roster anyone can comfortably root for this year. And that also means any night MacD isn't dressed, this is one gigantic wet toilet paper of a roster. I'm 100% with @bland on this one. Yeah we mock 'intangibles' but going against a guy like that at practice, your big brother who is going to beat the piss out of you but take care of you off the ice and against any other team, is gonna be missed by the young guys, and the old guys are likely taking it for granted.

Even with the team failing around him, Clifford stepped up and had his best year last year, and was on pace for at least his second best this year. Heart and soul. Guy is gonna be a legend in Toronto the first time he wrecks someone. I'll be rooting for it. Might even buy that jersey.

This one stings more than any of the others to me. Almost as bad as when Williams left for me.

hell, if he sticks long enough to become even just a meme, i think we win

Thousand Oaks Trevor is going to be that f***ing Brian Willsie asshole isn't he

Fair value but it kinda hurts. They're both really easy to root for

Yep, this team is running out of cheerable dudes. I was already at like as minimal interest as I could be. Ugh.


But as far as the return? Honestly Blake and Dubas have really nailed these trades imo. Both of them are just about perfect returns for team needs, the players' opportunities, and pick/asset value.

 

[saffronleaf]

Trash return

Moore is pretty decent.

 

[ZJames]

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but according to capfriendly, the 2021 3rd will upgrade to a 2nd in 2021 if the Leafs make the playoffs AND Campbell wins 6 games for them, OR if Clifford re-signs with Toronto. So if they can turn this into a 2nd and 3rd for Clifford and Campbell, then I feel like that's a really good return.

I must say though, I am sad to see Clifford leave.

 

[mr2padstack]

i hardly call 18.5% "in the bag"

Yea, we all know the NHL will give NYR and CHI picks 1 and 2, leaving DET and LA to make do with 3 and 4. It is the way.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Moore’s a shifty skater; similar to Lizotte, he’s a tenacious player.



Trevor Moore Finds Kasperi Kapanen For Maple Leafs Shorthanded Goal

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

To add to the above post, it also appears he has a bit of a winning pedigree in his past.

 

[Tables of Stats]

A question for you from an outside fan; why didn't Campbell get more starts this season? Is it a case where the stats are lying to me, the team's loyalty to Quick, or just a case of a coach not doing the right thing?

 

[bert]

Ugly trade for L.A when they held all the cards.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Moore, very likely, was part of the deal simply for roster purposes. The Leafs needed to open a spot, Moore was expendable. Exactly like when they got Lundmark in the Conroy trade. If he does anything, it's a bonus, but he's a cheap warm body through next season. If someone else beats him out for a spot, he's easily waived/sent to Ontario. The picks are obviously the part of the deal that matters. To think Clifford and Campbell are worth all that much more than a 3rd and conditional 2nd/3rd, is unrealistic. Who are we talking about?

Hopefully the Toffoli and possibly Martinez deals bring in prospects, and not just picks. If not, both teams will suffer as Blake will have no option other than the Willsie route in the summer.

That could also be a reason they just keep Martinez until the 2021 deadline. Sine he's not as good as Muzzin, they're not getting a similar return. If they need a space filler, they don't have to go out and find one, they have one in ol' Jazzy. Toffoli is gone, but they can stick Luff, Wagner, Prokhorkin, whoever, in his place, who cares. If they need to fill the spot from the outside, sign someone cheap, it's not a big deal. The Willsie route is what rebuilding teams do.

Blake is the one who signed Campbell to that extension prematurely, creating the waiver logjam and limiting his value in trade. Backup goalies with extended contracts are never going to provide much in return. No doubt he was extended so he could have been expansion draft fodder 15 months from now, but its not like Quick is in danger of going to Seattle if Petersen proves himself.

Goalies don't tend to provide much in return. If they do, it's rare. Had Campbell still been a UFA this year, does that increase his value? No. He's Jack Campbell. The Kings brought him back from the dead, and got more potential back than they gave up for him. If he leads the Leafs to a Cup, you tip your hat to a hot goalie. It won't mean that the Kings messed up. Although, should that scenario happen, it will be the only topic of discussion for the next 8 years.

A question for you from an outside fan; why didn't Campbell get more starts this season? Is it a case where the stats are lying to me, the team's loyalty to Quick, or just a case of a coach not doing the right thing?

Quick is still making $7m this year.

Ugly trade for L.A when they held all the cards.

Which cards would that be?

 

[bert]

Moore, very likely, was part of the deal simply for roster purposes. The Leafs needed to open a spot, Moore was expendable. Exactly like when they got Lundmark in the Conroy trade. If he does anything, it's a bonus, but he's a cheap warm body through next season. If someone else beats him out for a spot, he's easily waived/sent to Ontario. The picks are obviously the part of the deal that matters. To think Clifford and Campbell are worth all that much more than a 3rd and conditional 2nd/3rd, is unrealistic. Who are we talking about?



That could also be a reason they just keep Martinez until the 2021 deadline. Sine he's not as good as Muzzin, they're not getting a similar return. If they need a space filler, they don't have to go out and find one, they have one in ol' Jazzy. Toffoli is gone, but they can stick Luff, Wagner, Prokhorkin, whoever, in his place, who cares. If they need to fill the spot from the outside, sign someone cheap, it's not a big deal. The Willsie route is what rebuilding teams do.



Goalies don't tend to provide much in return. If they do, it's rare. Had Campbell still been a UFA this year, does that increase his value? No. He's Jack Campbell. The Kings brought him back from the dead, and got more potential back than they gave up for him. If he leads the Leafs to a Cup, you tip your hat to a hot goalie. It won't mean that the Kings messed up. Although, should that scenario happen, it will be the only topic of discussion for the next 8 years.



Quick is still making $7m this year.



Which cards would that be?

The one where the team they are trading with needed a goalie desperately.

 

[smitty10]

You guys will like Moore. He's a Cali guy, skates like the wind, works hard and plays physically. He also has some skill and could end up a lower-end middle 6 guy if given the opportunity. Most Leafs fans really like Moore and didn't expect him to be as good as he's been since entering the lineup last year.

Can anyone give me a run down on how Clifford and Campbell have played this year? I'd ask on the main board, but it's a toxic cesspool.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Couple of follow up thoughts this morning on the deal.

Campbell would have been an expensive back up. Being upped to 1.65M made him expendable. A much more proven back up Curtis McElhinney makes 1.3M. Clifford had to be dealt for an asset, this is what rebuilding teams do. So when you add up the potetnial assets, a potential 2nd, 2 guaranteed 3rds, for the LA Kings scouts who have been hitting it out of the park of late. This is a great trade for Blake. Moore I have seen play. His play since coming back from injury has not been as good, but at the beginning of the year he was a spark plug. He can move up and down the line up and he signals a change in the LA Kings philosophy of just heavy players, to more skill and speed. He is small but he does not mind playing in the gritty areas. Kings pro scouting probably identified team speed needs to improved. Moore fits the bill.

Basically as a NHL fan what I am saying is I like the Kings direction here. Just another positive step in the rebuild process.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Finding reasons to watch Kings games is only getting harder. I can only imagine how much of a mess our locker room will be after the deadline when Clifford, Campbell, Martinez, and Toffoli are all gone. This trade is gonna sting for quite some time for me.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I'm actually really happy with the return. A back-up goalie (they had to move a goalie) a rental bottom six forward for at least two thirds with a chance for one of those to turn into a second, and a throw in young player seems pretty good to me. Did anyone seriously think either Campbell or Clifford were returning a second themselves? So best case scenario was each of their values was a third, well the Kings got that with a chance for the return to be even better! Not exactly sure what the problem here is

 

[KingsFan7824]

The one where the team they are trading with needed a goalie desperately.

Yeah, but it's Jack Campbell. He may or may not be an answer of any kind. Hardly a slam dunk. And look at the general value of goalies. I don't know exactly what his value was in this deal, since the condition on the one pick involves either Clifford or Campbell meeting certain criteria, but the Kings had some level of need to get rid of a goalie as well. 3 goalies were set to be on 1 way contracts next year. Petersen is already 25, and wasting time in the AHL.

Is it the greatest trade of all time? No. Is it an ugly trade? No. It's a respectable trade for a 28 year old goalie that hasn't played 60 NHL games yet.

Finding reasons to watch Kings games is only getting harder. I can only imagine how much of a mess our locker room will be after the deadline when Clifford, Campbell, Martinez, and Toffoli are all gone. This trade is gonna sting for quite some time for me.

Too many Dean Lombardi's around here. The Kings need to purge the past. It's all we've been talking about for half a decade. No, wait, not that guy though. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, not, no, not that guy either. An emotional connection to Clifford made the Kings watchable in some way? Blake finally gets rid of another Cup holdover, but no, they should keep him for the culture? The culture we're all sick of at this point?

If anyone doesn't get why or how DL was suckered by Richards, or just looked at him and cried up at the cottage in Canada, here you go. All the players who went over to DL's house to cry with him when he was fired, even though they all screwed DL in both 14-15 and 15-16? Gave up/revolted on DL's friend who stood behind the bench and led them to championships? Yeah, here you go.

The time for crying is over.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Yeah, but it's Jack Campbell. He may or may not be an answer of any kind. Hardly a slam dunk. And look at the general value of goalies. I don't know exactly what his value was in this deal, since the condition on the one pick involves either Clifford or Campbell meeting certain criteria, but the Kings had some level of need to get rid of a goalie as well. 3 goalies were set to be on 1 way contracts next year. Petersen is already 25, and wasting time in the AHL.

Is it the greatest trade of all time? No. Is it an ugly trade? No. It's a respectable trade for a 28 year old goalie that hasn't played 60 NHL games yet.



Too many Dean Lombardi's around here. The Kings need to purge the past. It's all we've been talking about for half a decade. No, wait, not that guy though. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, not, no, not that guy either. An emotional connection to Clifford made the Kings watchable in some way? Blake finally gets rid of another Cup holdover, but no, they should keep him for the culture? The culture we're all sick of at this point?

If anyone doesn't get why or how DL was suckered by Richards, or just looked at him and cried up at the cottage in Canada, here you go. All the players who went over to DL's house to cry with him when he was fired, even though they all screwed DL in both 14-15 and 15-16? Gave up/revolted on DL's friend who stood behind the bench and led them to championships? Yeah, here you go.

The time for crying is over.

Seeing Kovalchuk and Muzzin have so much success leaving LA makes you realize what a shit hole were in.

Looking forward to watching Wagner miss the net on breakaways the rest of the season.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Go win six games Campbell

 

[funky]

I love the trade.

Clifford is not a player he used to be as can be said with more kings. Love what he is done but we have to stop holding on to sentiment. Two minutes before the trade most Kings fans would’ve been happy to get a third or fourth rounder for Clifford and at high-end a second rounder for Campbell.

We basically grabbed a third rounder for Clifford who can be signed again July 1. We also rewarded him with a shot at the playoffs, If anyone on a roster deserves that it would be him.

I believe on the trade board a lot of the fans between both teams thought of third round pick for Campbell would be fair. There was a couple people that would like to hold out for a second. We basically got a serviceable younger NHL forward similar to a Lizotte, but bigger and at minimum, a third round pick.

One of the best things I saw was that Grundstrom was recalled.He might not be quite as tough as Clifford but he too plays with some snarl and brings a lot more skill. The other is we get to see if Petersen is ready while we have a healthy Quick to ease him in. This is a much better scenario then calling him up if Quick was injured.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Seeing Kovalchuk and Muzzin have so much success leaving LA makes you realize what a **** hole were in.

Looking forward to watching Wagner miss the net on breakaways the rest of the season.

Didn't those two contribute to the downfall of the Kings though? Not that Montreal as a team is doing great, and Toronto was already on the upswing prior to Muzzin.

Wagner sucks, this is true.

I'm having some fun with it, but I'm saying all most people have talked about, endlessly, post after post after post, for the last few years, is how the past needs to die. The Cups were great, but the best thing is to never think of them again. Then when they do start getting rid of the past, it's oh, they didn't get enough, or they should've kept that one guy, etc.

In this dead season, there isn't a single rational reason not to trade Clifford for any asset they could get. Could've been a conditional 7th rd pick, and it's better than keeping him. The players will feel bad because he's not there? These are grown men being paid anywhere from 6 to 8 figures? Trade Forbort for a 21 year old Forbort who hasn't proved that he's as good as the actual Forbort yet. That's better than keeping Forbort.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Didn't those two contribute to the downfall of the Kings though? Not that Montreal as a team is doing great, and Toronto was already on the upswing prior to Muzzin.

Wagner sucks, this is true.

I'm having some fun with it, but I'm saying all most people have talked about, endlessly, post after post after post, for the last few years, is how the past needs to die. The Cups were great, but the best thing is to never think of them again. Then when they do start getting rid of the past, it's oh, they didn't get enough, or they should've kept that one guy, etc.

In this dead season, there isn't a single rational reason not to trade Clifford for any asset they could get. Could've been a conditional 7th rd pick, and it's better than keeping him. The players will feel bad because he's not there? These are grown men being paid anywhere from 6 to 8 figures? Trade Forbort for a 21 year old Forbort who hasn't proved that he's as good as the actual Forbort yet. That's better than keeping Forbort.

Not sure tbh.

Coaches kept Muzzin/Martinez together which didn't work out but I wouldn't really call that Muzzin's fault opposed to poor coaching.

Kovalchuk was considered a defensive liability though when given proper ice time he produced really well. Another coaching decision?

Both players are in great spots at the moment.

 

[Scottkmlps]

I like it. Moore & a conditional 3rd for a pending UFA (who could still sign back with the Kings) & a 3rd for a backup goalie, who was blocking Cal, is fair value. So this could turn out to be a deal of Moore, a 2nd (if Campbell wins 6 games & the Leafs make the playoffs), and a 3rd for Campbell, if Clifford signs back with the Kings? You take that and run.