Prospect Info: Calgary Wranglers and Prospect Discussion Megathread

[Some Other Flame]

Sad that phillips will play out his last contract year ripping up the AHL, then will sign somewhere else. No way he comes back to Calgary, and with our record of prospects that dont get chances, my guess is he will thrive somewhere else and get NHL minutes

Edit: NVM I guess he will still be a RFA, but im sure he will do everything in his power to play somewhere else

He's a group 6 FA meaning he needs 79 NHL games to remain an RFA otherwise he becomes UFA

The 2023 potential Group 6 free agents​

Matthew Phillips is a pending restricted free agent this off-season. If he accepts his qualifying offer for a one year deal, he’ll be walking himself straight into Group 6 free agency. He’s played one NHL game and while there’s a ton of runway remaining to get him into 79 more NHL dates, it might be an uphill battle. Phillips has been an excellent AHL soldier for the Flames and it’s hard to imagine how he could’ve done more for the Heat during his tenure so far, but it’s also unclear where he would fit within Sutter’s system given the Flames coach’s preference for burly two-way checkers. (We recently included Phillips as a potential trade piece for this reason: the Flames might try to get some value out of him before he potentially walks next summer.)

Calgary Flames’ Group 6 free agency could soon erode their depth

If you take a quick look at the Calgary Flames' organizational depth c...

flamesnation.ca

He's gotta be done with this organization and his treatment will be a major red flag for another undersized forward in 5'10" Coronato at least as long as Sutter is still here

 

[23Monahan]

He's a group 6 FA meaning he needs 79 NHL games to remain an RFA otherwise he becomes UFA

Calgary Flames’ Group 6 free agency could soon erode their depth

If you take a quick look at the Calgary Flames' organizational depth c...

flamesnation.ca

He's gotta be done with this organization and his treatment will be a major red flag for another undersized forward in 5'10" Coronato at least as long as Sutter is still here

Makes sense, yeah he is gone forsure then!

 

[Nanuuk]

I'd like to see Phillips play up as well, but unless he can make it full time there is no point risking losing him on waivers.

Also, his scoring profiles is very similar to another player we once had, Austin Czarnik, who now is still a tweener almost 4 years later. He had a couple of great years in the AHL (2015-16 61 pts in 68 games and 2017-18 69 pts in 64 games).

Matty recorded 68 points in 65 games last year. That's it. He is on a roll this year for sure, but that doesn't mean it will translate to the NHL.

If the team is ready for the risk, verses offering him up as trade bait to acquire a proven NHL player, then fine.

 

[23Monahan]

I'd like to see Phillips play up as well, but unless he can make it full time there is no point risking losing him on waivers.

Also, his scoring profiles is very similar to another player we once had, Austin Czarnik, who now is still a tweener almost 4 years later. He had a couple of great years in the AHL (2015-16 61 pts in 68 games and 2017-18 69 pts in 64 games).

Matty recorded 68 points in 65 games last year. That's it. He is on a roll this year for sure, but that doesn't mean it will translate to the NHL.

If the team is ready for the risk, verses offering him up as trade bait to acquire a proven NHL player, then fine.

I dont see us getting much in a trade for him, unless we can show he can play in the NHL, and if we dont give him that chance he walks next season anyways.

 

[Nanuuk]

It depends who he might be packaged with. Rebuilding teams will take a chance on the leading scorer or someone who puts up great numbers in the AHL.

 

[Anglesmith]

I dont see us getting much in a trade for him, unless we can show he can play in the NHL, and if we dont give him that chance he walks next season anyways.

See this drives me nuts.

Flames fans: it couldn't be more obvious that Phillips would be able to solve our scoring problems.

Also Flames fans: no way other teams would be confident that Phillips is ready for the NHL.

 

[23Monahan]

See this drives me nuts.

Flames fans: it couldn't be more obvious that Phillips would be able to solve our scoring problems.

Also Flames fans: no way other teams would be confident that Phillips is ready for the NHL.

You are putting words into my mouth. I have no idea if phillips would be as successful at the nhl level, and definitely wouldn't solve all our scoring problems. Neither do other teams, and I don't think they would give up any real valuable assets for him without some proof.

What I am saying is it is worth it to try him somewhere in our top 9 for a few games, and sit some of our slower grinders that aren't helping at all. If it works we either prove to other teams he is worth something, or end up with a player that compliments our roster, with the worst case scenario being he gets claimed on waivers and we lose a really good ahl player now instead of in the offseason. With all the risks treliving has taken with this roster, I would put this one at low risk with possible high reward.

Or we could just leave him in the AHL this season and let him walk for nothing in the offseason, and let a team see if he can compliment their roster for free...

It depends who he might be packaged with. Rebuilding teams will take a chance on the leading scorer or someone who puts up great numbers in the AHL.

I could definitely see treliving packaging him with a 1st rounder for another slow older player that underachieves lolll

 

[super6646]

You are putting words into my mouth. I have no idea if phillips would be as successful at the nhl level, and definitely wouldn't solve all our scoring problems. Neither do other teams, and I don't think they would give up any real valuable assets for him without some proof.

What I am saying is it is worth it to try him somewhere in our top 9 for a few games, and sit some of our slower grinders that aren't helping at all. If it works we either prove to other teams he is worth something, or end up with a player that compliments our roster, with the worst case scenario being he gets claimed on waivers and we lose a really good ahl player now instead of in the offseason. With all the risks treliving has taken with this roster, I would be this one at low risk with possible high reward.

Or we could just leave him in the AHL this season and let him walk for nothing in the offseason, and let a team see if he can compliment their roster for free...


I could definitely see treliving packaging him with a 1st rounder for another slow older player that underachieves lolll

I’ve noticed a lot of straw man posts around here recently. No one is saying Phillips is Jesus Christ himself, just that he deserves a chance.

 

[23Monahan]

I’ve noticed a lot of straw man posts around here recently. No one is saying Phillips is Jesus Christ himself, just that he deserves a chance.

Forsure, another benefit of calling him up and giving him a chance (or Pelletier or zary) let's the prospects know if they get to work and produce, they will be rewarded with a chance, while the players doing nothing in the NHL will sit. This will motivate them (and future prospects) to compete, and let the shitty vets know that thier playing time needs to be earned aswell. Seems like a good standard to set IMO

 

[Yepthatsme]

I’ve noticed a lot of straw man posts around here recently. No one is saying Phillips is Jesus Christ himself, just that he deserves a chance.

It’s not whether or not he deserves a chance, it’s whether there’s a chance available. Phillips isn’t a 4th line player. That part really isn’t debatable, so the next question is who does he immediately provide better results than to replace? He would have to instantly be better than one of Coleman, Dube, Ruzicka or Mangiapane, because one of them is now on the 4th line for Phillips. If he isn’t immediately better (that means defensive assignments and “playing their role”, as well as points), he isn’t helping us win games and will not be played. Then your options are sit him as the 13th man or most likely lose him on waivers. Right now he is doing big things in the AHL that is helping us win games and especially helping with our younger prospects development, Calgary won’t want to lose that for nothing.

Calgary still isn’t fully gelling yet, but make no mistake the only goal is to win games right now. They won’t sacrifice playing worse players over better ones for development. Don’t look at it as Phillip’s should get a chance, because Calgary will only call him up if it’s not a chance, he just needs to already be better than someone in our top 9.

Contract status aside, I would love to see him take Dube’s spot with Mangiapane and Kadri, and have Dube play 4th line centre. Another player with creativity could really help that line right now.

 

[23Monahan]

It’s not whether or not he deserves a chance, it’s whether there’s a chance available. Phillips isn’t a 4th line player. That part really isn’t debatable, so the next question is who does he immediately provide better results than to replace? He would have to instantly be better than one of Coleman, Dube, Ruzicka or Mangiapane, because one of them is now on the 4th line for Phillips. If he isn’t immediately better (that means defensive assignments and “playing their role”, as well as points), he isn’t helping us win games and will not be played. Then your options are sit him as the 13th man or most likely lose him on waivers. Right now he is doing big things in the AHL that is helping us win games and especially helping with our younger prospects development, Calgary won’t want to lose that for nothing.

Calgary still isn’t fully gelling yet, but make no mistake the only goal is to win games right now. They won’t sacrifice playing worse players over better ones for development. Don’t look at it as Phillip’s should get a chance, because Calgary will only call him up if it’s not a chance, he just needs to already be better than someone in our top 9.

Contract status aside, I would love to see him take Dube’s spot with Mangiapane and Kadri, and have Dube play 4th line centre. Another player with creativity could really help that line right now.

I would put coleman as a 4th line winger for a bit as he hasnt show he deserves top 9 minutes, but am open to shuffling it around a bit if needed as dube hasnt really been earning top 6 minutes either. But Lucic and Lewis have played every game this season, ritchie has played 21 ( think he missed the others due to injury) and rooney has played 15. They are definitely not helping us win games now and there is definitely room to bring up a prospect and give them a try, I just dont see it happening with our current coaching staff.

 

[Yepthatsme]

I would put coleman as a 4th line winger for a bit as he hasnt show he deserves top 9 minutes, but am open to shuffling it around a bit if needed as dube hasnt really been earning top 6 minutes either. But Lucic and Lewis have played every game this season, ritchie has played 21 ( think he missed the others due to injury) and rooney has played 15. They are definitely not helping us win games now and there is definitely room to bring up a prospect and give them a try, I just dont see it happening with our current coaching staff.

I don’t get why a lot of people have just decided they don’t like Coleman this year, he has been an amazing Swiss Army knife so far with his biggest negative being bad penalties. He is 3rd amongst all our forwards in even strength points, and has thrown more hits than anyone in our top 9. He has pretty much thrived as the gritty forechecker on a matchup line. Does he just not skate with the the puck enough or throw enough stick handling in, because everything else has been overtly positive. Once again though, it’s all about playing the role. Do you honestly think Phillip’s is currently cut out for gritty matchup minutes against other team’s best defensive players? That’s the role he’d have to play, and he’d have to play it better than Coleman currently to keep that chance. Regardless, Dube’s spot is a lot more conducive for Phillip’s specific style, an offensively orientated role with skill players.

This “current coaching staff” argument has to stop. Sutter has started two season with us. His first he promoted Kylington then immediately gave him big top 4 minutes, and this one once injuries hit he promoted Ruzicka to top 6 minutes instead of his usual 4th line role. Two seasons in a row Sutter has promoted prospects and offered them large roles, but they don’t bring up every single prospect we want so they must be unwilling?

Also for all this talk of Phillips I’d low key rather call up Pelletier. He’s not eligible for waivers so less risk, he’s also on an absolute offensive tear but plays a style more suitable for multiple usages, and he’s 3 years younger with a lot more room to grow.

 

[23Monahan]

I don’t get why a lot of people have just decided they don’t like Coleman this year, he has been an amazing Swiss Army knife so far with his biggest negative being bad penalties. He is 3rd amongst all our forwards in even strength points, and has thrown more hits than anyone in our top 9. He has pretty much thrived as the gritty forechecker on a matchup line. Does he just not skate with the the puck enough or throw enough stick handling in, because everything else has been overtly positive. Once again though, it’s all about playing the role. Do you honestly think Phillip’s is currently cut out for gritty matchup minutes against other team’s best defensive players? That’s the role he’d have to play, and he’d have to play it better than Coleman currently to keep that chance. Regardless, Dube’s spot is a lot more conducive for Phillip’s specific style, an offensively orientated role with skill players.

This “current coaching staff” argument has to stop. Sutter has started two season with us. His first he promoted Kylington then immediately gave him big top 4 minutes, and this one once injuries hit he promoted Ruzicka to top 6 minutes instead of his usual 4th line role. Two seasons in a row Sutter has promoted prospects and offered them large roles, but they don’t bring up every single prospect we want so they must be unwilling?

Sutter did not play kylington right away, sat him first even though he was cleary ready for it. And didn't immediately give him top 4 minutes. Kylington made it because he is a great defenceman, but yes once he got in the lineup and it became even more obvious he got solid minutes.

Ruzicka was sat for the first 10 or so games for Kevin rooney lol... then was put on the first line when huberdeau got injured to not mess with the other lines. He was demoted to the 4th line last week because he had a couple bad shifts while lucic got put in the top 6, and now he is sitting on the third line. Again ruzicka was VERY obviously ready to play, yet had to sit behind our worst forward for multiple games until Sutter was forced to put him in the lineup.

And I would be totally fine with them going the Pelletier or zary route for a callup over phillips.

 

[Mazatt]

I'd like to see Phillips play up as well, but unless he can make it full time there is no point risking losing him on waivers.

Also, his scoring profiles is very similar to another player we once had, Austin Czarnik, who now is still a tweener almost 4 years later. He had a couple of great years in the AHL (2015-16 61 pts in 68 games and 2017-18 69 pts in 64 games).

Matty recorded 68 points in 65 games last year. That's it. He is on a roll this year for sure, but that doesn't mean it will translate to the NHL.

If the team is ready for the risk, verses offering him up as trade bait to acquire a proven NHL player, then fine.

There's no legitimate risk of Phillips on waivers though.

When Phillips is called up, he has 30 days before he can be placed back on waivers, until then he can pass freely through to the AHL. But even if that weren't the case, here are the scenarios from Phillips getting called up;

1. He is good (anywhere from saviour to roster player) enough to make the team and solidifies himself as a top 9 forward, there's no fear of losing him on waivers since there's no reason for him to be ON waivers.

2. He is bad/not good enough to solidify a spot so he is put on waivers. From here there are two options
a. He gets claimed and a player the Flames have no intent to play is no longer there to float a top line in the AHL, and he gets opportunity elsewhere, with the residual chance that he will be picked back up if another team puts him on waivers. Worst case: he gets picked up and he's gone now instead of when he hits UFA

b. He doesn't get claimed and we are in the same spot we are in now--with a short player tearing up the AHL but not getting a shot, with derision on whether or not he deserves it, but a clearer answer based upon his play. If he is sent back down, safe to say there is even less of a path forward visible for Phillips and he shoots to get a new look in a different organization.



Calling up Phillips is as close to a no risk bet as possible for a team--much like most callups. If he doesn't work out the runway is so unbelievable small already that the loss would barely be felt by the Flames who clearly don't seem him as a long-term option, or really an any-term option at the NHL level.

It's a hoarder type mentality to fear losing Phillips, but also never use Phillips. They aren't going to use him anyways, that's the least of their worries for whether or not to pick him up.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Sutter did not play kylington right away, sat him first even though he was cleary ready for it. And didn't immediately give him top 4 minutes. Kylington made it because he is a great defenceman, but yes once he got in the lineup and it became even more obvious he got solid minutes.

Ruzicka was sat for the first 10 or so games for Kevin rooney lol... then was put on the first line when huberdeau got injured to not mess with the other lines. He was demoted to the 4th line last week because he had a couple bad shifts while lucic got put in the top 6, and now he is sitting on the third line. Again ruzicka was VERY obviously ready to play, yet had to sit behind our worst forward for multiple games until Sutter was forced to put him in the lineup.

And I would be totally fine with them going the Pelletier or zary route for a callup over phillips.

Kylington got benched game 1 after a bad mistake, sat game 2, then game 3 played ~18 minutes, a career high in ice time at that point, and never looked back. People have exaggerated that story so much by this point. Game 3 getting top 4 minutes in an 82 game season is immediate.

We have blendered our lines this entire season. We have two forward lines that have played together more than 85 minutes, or roughly 6-7 games worth of time. Ruzicka’s first game on the top line was our 6th loss in a row, construe it how you want but Ruzicka was not put in that spot to keep status quo, it was because he earned it in our coaches eyes. Only reason he’s on the 3rd line now is our second line is weirdly the only one we have that’s untouchable. Sutter wasn’t forced to do anything, he easily could’ve bumped Lucic or Lewis up like he has multiple times this season and let Ruzicka play 4th line centre, like he did the entirety of Ruzicka’s career to that point. There’s more to playing than just getting points, look at Sutter’s comments on the first game of the season Ruzicka played. He straight up said he wanted to see better energy, emotion, puck possession, improved zone time, more shots, and physical play. Offense was always there for him, but him rounding out other areas was the difference in this opportunity.

We aren’t afraid to give chances to players ready for the role. What our organization has seriously improved on recently is we don’t shoe horn prospects into roles they won’t thrive at. People lost their marbles when Bennett was being used as a 3rd line wing/4th line centre. Why would we want to call up a prospect to try and play a grinding 4th line role, or call Phillips up then have him try to shutdown the Ovechkin, Mcdavid, Mackinnon’s of the world with Coleman and Backlund. Kylington was placed in our lineup as a top 4 defenseman with one of the best D-men in the game at covering defensively for players, and Ruzicka got a top 6 role when we had a spot open with 2 of our best offensive players. We are beginning to do a great job at putting players in positions to succeed, and 3/4 of our fan base hates them for it.

 

[23Monahan]

Kylington got benched game 1 after a bad mistake, sat game 2, then game 3 played ~18 minutes, a career high in ice time at that point, and never looked back. People have exaggerated that story so much by this point. Game 3 getting top 4 minutes in an 82 game season is immediate.

We have blendered our lines this entire season. We have two forward lines that have played together more than 85 minutes, or roughly 6-7 games worth of time. Ruzicka’s first game on the top line was our 6th loss in a row, construe it how you want but Ruzicka was not put in that spot to keep status quo, it was because he earned it in our coaches eyes. Only reason he’s on the 3rd line now is our second line is weirdly the only one we have that’s untouchable. Sutter wasn’t forced to do anything, he easily could’ve bumped Lucic or Lewis up like he has multiple times this season and let Ruzicka play 4th line centre, like he did the entirety of Ruzicka’s career to that point. There’s more to playing than just getting points, look at Sutter’s comments on the first game of the season Ruzicka played. He straight up said he wanted to see better energy, emotion, puck possession, improved zone time, more shots, and physical play. Offense was always there for him, but him rounding out other areas was the difference in this opportunity.

We aren’t afraid to give chances to players ready for the role. What our organization has seriously improved on recently is we don’t shoe horn prospects into roles they won’t thrive at. People lost their marbles when Bennett was being used as a 3rd line wing/4th line centre. Why would we want to call up a prospect to try and play a grinding 4th line role, or call Phillips up then have him try to shutdown Ovechkin/Mcdavid/Mackinnon’s of the world with Coleman and Backlund.

Are you not taking into account sutters first season when he coached 56 games, and kylington had 8 gp, which im pretty sure a couple were for ward?

And Ruzicka earned the 1st line spot after being sat for rooney for 10 games lol??? And you say he could have bumped f***ing lucic and lewis up to the top 6? He HAS done that this season, which is absurd considering how bad they are. And I have heard sutters commnets, he seems to have a verrry short leash for the young guys, were as the old vets who havent scored in a year and have horrible analytics get to play every game and have no leash at all. Phillps/pelltier/zary could get a chance on the second line aswell, its not like mang and dube are doing much to solidify their spots there. I have not once said I want phillips to play on the 4th line, not sure where you are getting that idea from.

We arent afraid? We are the ONLY team in the whole league to not graduate a prospect since 2017 lol, seems we are at the very least VERY hesitant. And when you talk about Sam Bennett, is that the same Sam Bennett who is a solid 2nd line center with more points than anyone on the Flames this season? A season where EVERY other team in the league has a player with more points than our leading scorer, yet we ARE too afraid to try a younger faster player that is showing signs that they might be able to score at this level. Lol I guess you think its in our best interest to let Phillips walk away this offseason?

 

[Mobiandi]

You know it's business as usual for the Calgary Flames when calling up a 24 year old AHL player of the month to a struggling .500 team is the subject of contentious debate

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Schwindt back in today after missing a couple. Petterson out though.

 

[Anglesmith]

You are putting words into my mouth. I have no idea if phillips would be as successful at the nhl level, and definitely wouldn't solve all our scoring problems. Neither do other teams, and I don't think they would give up any real valuable assets for him without some proof.

What I am saying is it is worth it to try him somewhere in our top 9 for a few games, and sit some of our slower grinders that aren't helping at all. If it works we either prove to other teams he is worth something, or end up with a player that compliments our roster, with the worst case scenario being he gets claimed on waivers and we lose a really good ahl player now instead of in the offseason. With all the risks treliving has taken with this roster, I would put this one at low risk with possible high reward.

Or we could just leave him in the AHL this season and let him walk for nothing in the offseason, and let a team see if he can compliment their roster for free...

I think more than likely they're thinking that either injuries or some other reason creates a more long-term availability, or they save him for the post-deadline callups. I think if things really start to slide and it looks like we can't make the playoffs without making a change, they'll call him up.

Likely they would have included him in a trade prior to this season if other teams were interested, but it takes a season like this to get teams interested and at this point teams know they wouldn't have control of him for long.

For the Flames, it makes sense to protect him until a point where they wouldn't need to risk losing him for free. If they really are destined to lose him after this season, you might as well try and make this season count as much as possible.

 

[Some Other Flame]

The skill, the speed, the finish. Oh but it doesn't count because he's small #Sutterlogic


If Phillips left only to became the the next Martin St. Louis, would it be worth it if it meant everyone on the Flames getting fired and Murray Edwards selling the team?

 

[oldwpgjet]

Have not watched flames lately but heard their goaltending hasn't been as stellar as of late. Been keeping an glancing eye on Dustin Wolf on their farm team and has looked pretty solid , in fact I would say his whole career to date has looked very impressive, junior included. Markstrom and Vlader are a pretty strong duo when they are on but still a little surprised the kid hasn't gotten a deserving start somewhere along the line and interested to hear other people's thoughts on him.

 

[Kranix]

Funny how people are frothing at the mouth for Phillips to be given a 2-3 game testdrive, as if his totals in those games, zeroes, or big numbers would be an indication of how he's going to be at the NHL level long term, or if he helps the team. He's still an injury call-up player. That's how the team is structured. You think any NHL person who has substantial experience in pro hockey gives a flying f*** about a cute breakaway goal, or a ppg in the AHL? That's all twitter fodder, and for the Wranglers play by play guy to fawn over.

 

[Kranix]

I’ve noticed a lot of straw man posts around here recently. No one is saying Phillips is Jesus Christ himself, just that he deserves a chance.

Explain why Phillips deserves a chance right now

 

[Kahvi]

Explain why Phillips deserves a chance right now

Because 15+15=30

 

[Kranix]

Because 15+15=30

What is the AHL, like the 10th best pro hockey league in the world? Roman Cervenka age 23, "the best player not playing in the NHL" put up 73 in 50 in the Czech league, a better league than the A.