Prospect Info: Calgary Wranglers and Prospect Discussion Megathread

[Kahvi]

What is the AHL, like the 10th best pro hockey league in the world? Roman Cervenka age 23, "the best player not playing in the NHL" put up 73 in 50 in the Czech league, a better league than the A.

The question you asked wasn't "why do you think he's gonna be a good NHL player?", it was "Explain why Phillips deserves a chance right now". He deserves a chance because he's been really good in the AHL this season, and almost PPG over the last 3 seasons.

I'll ask you, what does he need to do before you think he has deserved a chance in the NHL?

 

[Mobiandi]

I don't think Lucic or Lewis would put up even 0.5ppg in the A

Inb4 Phillips can't play on the 4th line as if Mangiapane-Ryan-Hathaway didn't exist

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I'll ask you, what does he need to do before you think he has deserved a chance in the NHL?

Didn't ask me but IMO he's got to show the speed, the hands, and the shot at the NHL level.

He needs to be better than one of the top nine players that will be demoted to the 4th line.

I'm honestly not sure that he's done that. No problem rolling the dice if there's an injury but he'd be better than who? Coleman? Nah. Dube? Nah.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

What is the AHL, like the 10th best pro hockey league in the world? Roman Cervenka age 23, "the best player not playing in the NHL" put up 73 in 50 in the Czech league, a better league than the A.

You think the Czech league is better than the AHL?

Lol it’s not even close to the AHL

 

[Ace Rimmer]

You think the Czech league is better than the AHL?

Lol it’s not even close to the AHL

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[Kranix]

You think the Czech league is better than the AHL?

Lol it’s not even close to the AHL

Not even close? Where are you getting that?

 

[Kahvi]

Didn't ask me but IMO he's got to show the speed, the hands, and the shot at the NHL level.

He needs to be better than one of the top nine players that will be demoted to the 4th line.

I'm honestly not sure that he's done that. No problem rolling the dice if there's an injury but he'd be better than who? Coleman? Nah. Dube? Nah.

Yeah, he needs to show that he can be effective top-9 in the NHL. But he needs to play some games in the NHL so that he show that he can (or can't).

Funny enough, Flames have had really few injured forwards in the last 2-3 years, almost makes me want to hope minor injury to couple middle 6 wingers to give AHL a chance

 

[Kranix]

You think the Czech league is better than the AHL?

Lol it’s not even close to the AHL

People are acting like the AHL is right on the cusp of the NHL, when it's not even close. That's why you these guys lighting it up all the time. Phillips, Brett Seney. Darren Raddysh, a defenceman who's not going to have an NHL career is 3rd in scoring.

 

[Kranix]

Yeah, he needs to show that he can be effective top-9 in the NHL. But he needs to play some games in the NHL so that he show that he can (or can't).

Funny enough, Flames have had really few injured forwards in the last 2-3 years, almost makes me want to hope minor injury to couple middle 6 wingers to give AHL a chance

If there's a significant injury to a top 9 player, Phillips will be called up.

 

[Kahvi]

If there's a significant injury to a top 9 player, Phillips will be called up.

I sure hope so.

But if we are looking at the AHL, all teams and all players, who do you think deserves a call-up more than Phillips, and why?

 

[Kranix]

I sure hope so.

But if we are looking at the AHL, all teams and all players, who do you think deserves a call-up more than Phillips, and why?

I don't think deserve enters into it. They've all turned pro. The NHL is an impossibly high caliber league to get into. People start talking about "deserve" when they see a guys point totals in AHL, and it looks so silly. Why has Martin Frk never stuck in the NHL? He's 6'1" and has a howitzer shot. PPG for years in the AHL, and still only 29. Where's he playing this year?
I could never know what all the NHL teams think of their players playing the AHL. All I can tell you is, they're not necessarily basing call-ups on who is piling up points.
Phillips looks great, only 24, and 1.5 ppg. Point per game last year at 23. Well, Cody Glass did the same thing last year at 22, but they made a big deal about how he earned a spot on the Preds this year in camp. Phillips didn't in the eyes of Darryl Sutter, whose opinon means strangely nothing to people now that the Flames aren't number 1 in the div all year anymore.

 

[Kahvi]

I don't think deserve enters into it. They've all turned pro. The NHL is an impossibly high caliber league to get into. People start talking about "deserve" when they see a guys point totals in AHL, and it looks so silly. Why has Martin Frk never stuck in the NHL? He's 6'1" and has a howitzer shot. PPG for years in the AHL, and still only 29. Where's he playing this year?
I could never know what all the NHL teams think of their players playing the AHL. All I can tell you is, they're not necessarily basing call-ups on who is piling up points.

Frk has 124 games in the NHL and he's had his chance, Phillips has 1 NHL games. You are the one who brought "deserve" in to the discussion, that's why I'm talking about it. For all I know Phillips could be a lot worse than Frk in the NHL, but we don't know because he's only played 1 game but he really deserves a chance.

 

[Kranix]

Frk has 124 games in the NHL and he's had his chance, Phillips has 1 NHL games. You are the one who brought "deserve" in to the discussion, that's why I'm talking about it. For all I know Phillips could be a lot worse than Frk in the NHL, but we don't know because he's only played 1 game but he really deserves a chance.

I didn't bring deserve into it. It's been thrown around in this thread the whole time. People are saying he deserves a chance. The burden's on them. Hockey's not that complicated. Darryl said the other day he's watched the Wranglers a ton live this year. So, is Phillips 15+15 in the AHL supposed to impress a hall of fame coach who scored 40 goals in the NHL himself? or is he looking for something else in Phillip's game? I don't know. Do you?

 

[Volica]

You think the Czech league is better than the AHL?

Lol it’s not even close to the AHL

I want everyone to know the Roman Horak, Flames Legend, Roman Horak, is leading Sparta Praha in points this year.

Dunno, I think the AHL is better but I don't think it's like a 'much, much' better league.

KHL/SHL are probably way ahead.
Swiss-A is probably ahead.

The AHL is probably better than SM-Liiga and the Czech league.

The AHL is hard to gauge, just because ages mean something, physical development means something... there are lots of things that 'mean something' in that league. Like, Garnet Hathaway or Ryan Lomberg can be 0.5 PPG players and carve out multi-year deals in the NHL as bottom line guys who have careers... guys like Morgan Klimchuk can produce more offensively and never see an NHL surface.

That step between being an AHL standout and being a regular NHL is a massive one. Like, beyond massive in many cases.

 

[Kahvi]

I didn't bring deserve into it. It's been thrown around in this thread the whole time. People are saying he deserves a chance. The burden's on them. Hockey's not that complicated. Darryl said the other day he's watched the Wranglers a ton live this year. So, is Phillips 15+15 in the AHL supposed to impress a hall of fame coach who scored 40 goals in the NHL himself? or is he looking for something else in Phillip's game? I don't know. Do you?

I dont know if Darryl is impressed or not, but Phillips surely has deserved a chance. Like I asked before, what more should he do to deserve it?

Just to clarify my opinion;
-Is Phillips gonna be the saviour that leads Flames to 2023 Stanley Cup? lol no
-Is Phillips gonna be a good top 6 winger for the Flames? who knows, probably not
-Is Phillips good enough to become an NHL player at some point in his career? maybe
-Is Phillips good enought at the moment to deserve a call-up to Flames top-9? absolutely

 

[Kranix]

I dont know if Darryl is impressed or not, but Phillips surely has deserved a chance. Like I asked before, what more should he do to deserve it?

Just to clarify my opinion;
-Is Phillips gonna be the saviour that leads Flames to 2023 Stanley Cup? lol no
-Is Phillips gonna be a good top 6 winger for the Flames? who knows, probably not
-Is Phillips good enough to become an NHL player at some point in his career? maybe
-Is Phillips good enought at the moment to deserve a call-up to Flames top-9? absolutely

You just keep saying he deserves a chance, based on nothing but lighting up the AHL. Who does he replace right now in the top 9? I've already said, if there's an injury he'll be called up. That's not the issue.
If he replaces Lewis on Line 4, people would be tearing at their clothes that he didn't get at least 5 games with Lindholm and Huberdeau.

 

[Kahvi]

You just keep saying he deserves a chance, based on nothing but lighting up the AHL. Who does he replace right now in the top 9? I've already said, if there's an injury he'll be called up. That's not the issue.
If he replaces Lewis on Line 4, people would be tearing at their clothes that he didn't get at least 5 games with Lindholm and Huberdeau.

Yes he deserves a chance, but I also understand why he might not get one at the moment. Doesn't change the fact that he deserves one.

 

[Kranix]

It really seems like people are seeking to punish Treliving based on Craig Button's handling of Martin St Louis 21 years ago.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Don’t know much about Thibauld Chatel’s system, but some pretty interesting stats he posted to Twitter. According to his numbers Pelletier is the best U22 forward in the AHL bar none. The real surprise is Poirier’s rankings in the top 10 for defense, and he does it as one of the youngest players eligible as well.

 

[Body Checker]

It really seems like people are seeking to punish Treliving based on Craig Button's handling of Martin St Louis 21 years ago.

I'd say moreso about watching a veteran laden team playing at a non-playoff pace while being relatively boring to watch. Everyone loves kids and inspired play. Team needs it.

 

[Yepthatsme]

I don't think Lucic or Lewis would put up even 0.5ppg in the A

Inb4 Phillips can't play on the 4th line as if Mangiapane-Ryan-Hathaway didn't exist

Fun fact, that group had a combined 32 goals in 201 games played that year. Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie’s pace for 26 in that same sample size, and that’s with Lucic providing zero. So the small offensive style 4th line had similar offense without everything else that our new 4th line brings to the table. But I’m sure Phillips would fit right in with Ritchie and Lewis’s crash and bang cycle style of play.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Have not watched flames lately but heard their goaltending hasn't been as stellar as of late. Been keeping an glancing eye on Dustin Wolf on their farm team and has looked pretty solid , in fact I would say his whole career to date has looked very impressive, junior included. Markstrom and Vlader are a pretty strong duo when they are on but still a little surprised the kid hasn't gotten a deserving start somewhere along the line and interested to hear other people's thoughts on him.

He's good. Very smart goalie, keeps his feet well, economical movement, great lateral push, anticipates the play and tracks the puck at a high level. The Flames I think are just going to be overly careful with him as we've had lots of promising young drafted goalies over the years and none of them have really amounted to anything. The last drafted and developed above average starter from this organization was Mike freaking Vernon. Wolf I think is easily the most promising they've had though.

I imagine he'll get a start or two near the end of the year if the playoff picture is decided and they want to give Markstrom or Vladar a rest. Right now the best place for him is the AHL as he continues to ply his trade and improve. Honestly with the way goalies have continually nose dived in performance with the big club the last 5+ years I'm in no rush to see him up here.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Fun fact, that group had a combined 32 goals in 201 games played that year. Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie’s pace for 26 in that same sample size, and that’s with Lucic providing zero. So the small offensive style 4th line had similar offense without everything else that our new 4th line brings to the table. But I’m sure Phillips would fit right in with Ritchie and Lewis’s crash and bang cycle style of play.

I actually think he'd do just fine on a 4th line like that. Him and Pelletier are both excellent forecheckers and their line w Zohorna has the best cycle game on the Wranglers.


That's why I find the Austin Czarnik comparisons so lazy. Czarnik was an undersized speedy winger who lived off the rush and had a great shot, while being mostly useless at every other facet of the game. Rarely went to the front of the net, rarely did anything in the dzone, rarely threw a hit or forechecked, the kind of perimeter player coaches rightly don't think much of.

Phillips is an undersized speedy winger who does good work on the rush, has great hands, drives the net like he's twice his size, draws penalties with his feet, more than adequate defensively, and is constantly stirring up shit with the other team. His motor does not quit and he makes the most out of every minute of ice time.

Is he MSL reincarnate? No probably not. But a hometown 6th round pick who led your farm team in production last year and is leading the entire AHL in points this year, don't you think it's worth investigating? Lewis, Lucic, Rooney, Ritchie these guys are known quantities. They play reasonable defense against bottom competition and would be lucky to chip in 20pts. If you have a player that could possibly give you more with the roster spot why wouldn't you at least give it a shot in December when the stakes aren't super high? Rooney and Ritchie will still be there if it doesn't work out, I promise.

 

[Mazatt]

It's a major cop-out to say Phillips couldn't do better than Coleman when Coleman (and Dube) were literally on the 4th line this very season. There's no reason the Flames can't get creative to justify their mantra of rolling 4 lines. Coming into last season I feel like you'd hear the same stuff about Kylington. "If management hasn't played him there's clearly a reason," "see, he passed through waivers," "clearly his game just works in the AHL and not the NHL" but lo and behold when he got a chance, he was great. Appealing to authority doesn't work when the authority has many incompetent traits.

Hockey and evaluating talent isn't a perfect science. Just look at Valimaki, everyone was so sure he was awful, couldn't skate, couldn't work at the NHL level, but how he gets games in on Arizona and is one of only a few players there with his head above water.


As for the Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway comp to Lucic - Lewis - Ritchie comp, the former option had sterling advanced stats that go beyond just how many goals they paced for as a 4th line. They had a: 62% xGF rate, 56% Corsi, 57% Fenwick, and had twice as many HDC for vs. against. Lucic - Lewis - Ritchie has: 39% xGF rate, 47% Corsi, 41% Fenwick, and have a .400 HDCF. The comparison is honestly insulting when considering most of the goals come from Ritchie just throwing pucks on net, or Lewis in PK/EN situations. They are objectively a bad line and get outchanced routinely.

That's the thing a lot of people miss. Kids can score. Kids can also not score while positively impacting play. The Flames could have had 0 goals for from Mangiapane, Ryan, and Hathaway and that would be more condusive to success than 10 Lucic - Lewis - Ritchie goals this season because they aren't caved in most of their time on the ice.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I want everyone to know the Roman Horak, Flames Legend, Roman Horak, is leading Sparta Praha in points this year.

Dunno, I think the AHL is better but I don't think it's like a 'much, much' better league.

KHL/SHL are probably way ahead.
Swiss-A is probably ahead.

The AHL is probably better than SM-Liiga and the Czech league.

The AHL is hard to gauge, just because ages mean something, physical development means something... there are lots of things that 'mean something' in that league. Like, Garnet Hathaway or Ryan Lomberg can be 0.5 PPG players and carve out multi-year deals in the NHL as bottom line guys who have careers... guys like Morgan Klimchuk can produce more offensively and never see an NHL surface.

That step between being an AHL standout and being a regular NHL is a massive one. Like, beyond massive in many cases.

The KHL isn’t even close. High ranked players routinely come from the K and play on the third pair in the AHL. Or don’t make the team at all. Players that are supposed to be superstars ie Gusev are usually terrible when they come over. Kuzmenko is more the exception than the rule

The AHL is a collection of the best players from the best leagues. It isn’t even close really IMO. Scoring might be easier in the AHL than the KHL/SHL but that’s because of the rink size. But the talent in the A dwarves any other leagues. The A graduates 30ish players a year to the NHL. That’s more that all the other leagues combined I’m pretty sure.